Your Lions Squad Based on this Season?

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

Hi Umanga's Witness,

Thanks for getting in on it. Ford is actually hidden under "hard to leave out." Either he or more versatile Anscombe would move up if I expanded my squad from 30 to 36 players.

But I did not completely quote Stephen Jones, who gave a reason for leaving him out. He argued, that the also matters in the back line.

So you dived in to one of the typical main talkings points adressing style, what gels, and current form ("Topic3.") It inlcudes

- having a guy like Ford at 12. Or first five-eighth.

- Another one is the size argument (Genge, Tipuric, Itoje or Gray too light against the beefy Springboks.) But who says that fire is to be fought with fire.

- How about iffy tacklers? Yes Joseph. Huw Jones, Tomkins, also Ringrose?

- Perhaps also about the recent success fielding two open-side-flankers (maybe not one of the at eight.) There was Hooper-Pockock, Warburton-Tipuric, Curry-Underhill (ar the expense of Wilson.)

All this in the light that Back Row and Wing/Fullback the most competitive sections.

- And maybe one should be clear about whether individual preference is meant. Or what Gatland will do. In the latter case we are talking about Lions "scot free." Except Hoggy. And kilted Kiwis of course.

Since your monicker sound like it, here an ad hoc XV SANZAAR-Lions for you (how about that for an oxymoron?) Dell, A.N. Other, Nel (S Ball, Klyne (SA DuPreez (SA,) Stander (SA,) Strauss (SA Heinz, Anscombe; McNicol, Parkes, Johnson, Solomona; Maitland. Honorable mention Berghan, Toolis, Roux (SA,) Armand (Zim,) Robson, Halaholo. So a couple of South Africans on a happy return. Game on, let them bash it out.

Who did I forget? Haven't you got a hooker after Hartley and Strauss (SA) are not available any more, please?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

@FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4

I would say don't fight fire with fire. You can't leave out Itoje, his fitness and work rate will be an asset if you are playing a fast game. Ryan is rediculously fit too. Fit forwards like Healy and furlong. You'll need an eight who can pack some punch but I don't think billy v is fit enough for the style I think you should use. If you do use him it should be either from the bench or when you replace him you bring in another flanker and shift underhill to 8; flankers will be vital. Ringrose is an absolute must for the style, he is fit and active, always getting involved and looking to make something happen. You probably need tuilagi for some punch.

Healy
?
Furlong
Ryan
Itoje
Curry
Underhill
?
Murray
Russell
Adams
Tuilagi
Rungrose
May
?

navidi on the reserves probably.

something like that.

In terms of the SANZAAR-Lions team, I can't think of a hooker, But James Lowe would probably be eligible (for wing) by then. You missed Callum gibbons too. He looks like he is doing well at Glasgow.

 

[Juggler]

@FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4

How about iffy tacklers? Yes Joseph. Huw Jones, Tomkins, also Ringrose?

Joseph an iffy tackler?

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

@Juggler

Joseph – I fear defence is, why he did not make it into the 1st XV on the 2017 tour. And despite flashes of brilliance and one great breakthrough saeson has never quite established himself as a regular starter in the England national team.

@Umaga's Witness

Thanks for Lowe.
Is that feasible then? Would it come in time for the Lions tour? Very interesting, one option more.
Will watch Callum Gibbons in the Scotland shirt. Maybe one day even Hardy will come back (sad story.)

Duhan van der Merwe is a case like Lowe. I simply don't know for sure if he would be eligible come June 2021.

Got two potent guys already myself, who I forgot: Brad Shields and Joseph Carbery from Dargaville, New Zealand.

There are more who don't really deserve an honorable mention as they could not keep up like Hugh Blake, Michael Bent, or are at least not at the level of the other ones (Swinson, Ed Slater, Cowan, Rhodes, Kyle Steyn, Abandanon, Hanno Dirksen.) Still no hooker.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

@Juggler

Joseph – I fear defence is, why he did not make it into the 1st XV on the 2017 tour. And despite flashes of brilliance and one great breakthrough saeson has never quite established himself as a regular starter in the England national team.

@Umaga's Witness

Thanks for Lowe.
Is that feasible then? Would it come in time for the Lions tour? Very interesting, one option more.
Will watch Callum Gibbons in the Scotland shirt. Maybe one day even Hardy will come back (sad story.)

Duhan van der Merwe is a case like Lowe. I simply don't know for sure if he would be eligible come June 2021.

Got two potent guys already myself, who I forgot: Brad Shields and Joseph Carbery from Dargaville, New Zealand.

There are more who don't really deserve an honorable mention as they could not keep up like Hugh Blake, Michael Bent, or are at least not at the level of the other ones (Swinson, Ed Slater, Cowan, Rhodes, Kyle Steyn, Abandanon, Hanno Dirksen.) Still no hooker.

Mate Joseph is fairly widely accepted as one of the best defensive 13s there is... It's just not a problem tbh

 

[General Melchett]

One thing is certain. The players who perform best at next year's 6N in their respective positions will not necessarily be the ones who are selected. We have seen before that Gatland is willing to select injured players who he trusts/has worked with before and can best execute the game plan he has in mind.

When is the coaching team usually announced? Will it be early next year before the 6N or might it be later this year? I imagine conversations are already taking place in that regard.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

Good question, Oggmonster. Gats surely will surely get some top hacks on board. Partly guys he has worked with, partly enhancements for him to reflects the four participating cultures. Can't wait myself.
And, since I for my part like Joseph, would be most happy if what you say about him will be shared across this coaching team, noah_jo. I was just scratching my head what it was.
There is a different talking point belonging in nature to the ones I mentioned: Elliot Daly.
This is boring to everybody who does not see him on par with the probables for the starting spots. He would still be a good addition to the squad covering five positions. And ideal utility back. And place kicker.
For everybody rating him more highly, full back would be a weak case nevertheless. There is the high ball (like Watson's kicking from hand) as a key ability which is not quite a strenghth in his profile.
And the competition is tense with Hogg and Liam Williams. With possibles like Kinghorn, versatile Anscombe, and Halfpenney in the rear. Larmour could even be front runner for 15 to make place for more of all the good wingers (Stockdale, May, North, Adams, Cocanasiga, Watson.)
Looks that centre (unlike 2017 wing) would be the most likely spot for him to start. There might be more wiggle room in the midfield if key leader Farrell is granted the shirt with number 10. Daly could provide the glue both at 12 or 13 due to both his rugby IQ when combining with others, his amazing boot, and his pace. It would have to be at the expence of performers like Slade or Tuilagi, the go-to-guy if fully fit. Scotsman Johnson, so sharp 2019, has got the legs in principle. But did not look good in 2020 when he failed to go from coast to coast upon his interception against Ireland, costing his nation a great victory.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Good question, Oggmonster. Gats surely will surely get some top hacks on board. Partly guys he has worked with, partly enhancements for him to reflects the four participating cultures. Can't wait myself.
And, since I for my part like Joseph, would be most happy if what you say about him will be shared across this coaching team, noah_jo. I was just scratching my head what it was.
There is a different talking point belonging in nature to the ones I mentioned: Elliot Daly.
This is boring to everybody who does not see him on par with the probables for the starting spots. He would still be a good addition to the squad covering five positions. And ideal utility back. And place kicker.
For everybody rating him more highly, full back would be a weak case nevertheless. There is the high ball (like Watson's kicking from hand) as a key ability which is not quite a strenghth in his profile.
And the competition is tense with Hogg and Liam Williams. With possibles like Kinghorn, versatile Anscombe, and Halfpenney in the rear. Larmour could even be front runner for 15 to make place for more of all the good wingers (Stockdale, May, North, Adams, Cocanasiga, Watson.)
Looks that centre (unlike 2017 wing) would be the most likely spot for him to start. There might be more wiggle room in the midfield if key leader Farrell is granted the shirt with number 10. Daly could provide the glue both at 12 or 13 due to both his rugby IQ when combining with others, his amazing boot, and his pace. It would have to be at the expence of performers like Slade or Tuilagi, the go-to-guy if fully fit. Scotsman Johnson, so sharp 2019, has got the legs in principle. But did not look good in 2020 when he failed to go from coast to coast upon his interception against Ireland, costing his nation a great victory.

That's a wild ride!

Daly's only chance is if he's taken with a view to being number 23. As you've said there are at least three better 15s and a bunch of better wings, some not even mentioned.

It's the same with centre. Firstly, has Daly ever played 12? When you have two guys who have the potential to be world class at 12 in Henshaw and Farrell and a bunch of proven internationals in Johnson, Tuilagi, Ali and even Parkes really.
At 13, again, you're lumping him in as second choice ahead of one player he's never got ahead of in international rugby in Joseph as well as two guys who are head and shoulders above him in Davies and Ringrose.

His versatility might get him a spot on the plane but there's so many better specialists that I'd be amazed if he was a starter.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

That's a wild ride!

Daly's only chance is if he's taken with a view to being number 23. As you've said there are at least three better 15s and a bunch of better wings, some not even mentioned.

It's the same with centre. Firstly, has Daly ever played 12? When you have two guys who have the potential to be world class at 12 in Henshaw and Farrell and a bunch of proven internationals in Johnson, Tuilagi, Ali and even Parkes really.
At 13, again, you're lumping him in as second choice ahead of one player he's never got ahead of in international rugby in Joseph as well as two guys who are head and shoulders above him in Davies and Ringrose.

His versatility might get him a spot on the plane but there's so many better specialists that I'd be amazed if he was a starter.

Spot on! Just too much talent to pick from. Game on.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

In the meantime, Hadleigh Parkes decided for Japanese club rugby at the expense of Wales. Fair enough. But we don't have to worry about him any more for selection. That was that. (As the Lions go to South Africa and not somewhere close to Japan. To fly emergency cover in from nearby if required.)

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

Gatland's coaching team: Stuart Lancaster made clear that he would be on board. (Providing an English representation. And, to a certain degree Irish.)

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

Bolters, a topic with some similarities to veterans. But a hot one.
In both cases, current form does not provide a realiable answer as in the case of a 27-year old international. Some possible "bolters" are not even internationals yet.
Well, that wasn't a problem in the case of Jerry Guscott, who won the Lions tour 1989. (If an Aussie would be around, I would say David Campese lost the series.) More recent, but less dramatic is the example of Leigh Halfpenney 11 years ago. A precedent as far as the South African host country is concerned.
Will Greenwood had at one point advocated that 22-year-old Leinster winger Adam Byrne should be on the plane to New Zealand 2017.
Talking about the future. This is fun too. As the scope forall kinds of ideas is wide.
Sportsjoe had Welsh hooker Ryan Elias in the 2021 starting XV when addressing the tour as far back as March 2019. Rugbypass put him as a squad member in November of that year. Together with Whasp Alfie Barbeary (I hadn't heard of him.) INews made Ronan Kelleher the first choice there in March of this year.
Stephen Jones picked a bolter in every position in the current issue of Rugby World. Most noteworthy to me (I did not say most outlandish) – Harry Randall, the Bristol scrum half. Not a bolter but regaular squad member is the status of Chris Farrell in his opinion. As he could cover fly half besides his regular centre position.
But I've got a favorite too:
Welshman Taine Basham. A converted centre, a "hotshot" recently in Rugby World, he is already so much more for the Dragons and their back row. His spectacular carries could upset the applecart in the 2021 Sixnations enough to earn him selection.
Other hopefulls of mine are Isekwe, Dombrandt, Simmons, George Horne, Marcus Smith, Marchant, Lane,and Graham. With the first one not just figuratively head and shoulders above the others.
Lack of depth in particular positions justifies thinking of Carre, Stuart, and Cummings.
A different type of bolter would be a player who faded away from the international scene, but had already proven something in the past. This applies to Rob Evans more than anyone else. I actually picked him (but bracketed with popular choice of late Rory Sutherland.) Otherwise there is only Mako Vunipola as an obvious name at loose head.
In that category but less important for the quality of the squad amid more crowed positions is a possible comeback of Dan Leavy, Staff Evans, or Mark Bennett. And what would a full (injury-free) international saeson do for Joey Carbery.
Please note: I did not mention Louis Rees-Zammit.

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

Hope no trouble brews in earnest along the lines of what the Daily Mirror speculated about yesterday (postponement or axing of the 2021 tour altogether.)

 

[EdBirch]

I reckon it will still go ahead, the Unions need the cash injection and a Lions Tour is probably more lucrative than a normal summer tour

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

@EdBirch or all other connaisseurs in this forum: I'd expect little dissent from you, that any slight thought of toying with the Lions Tour would only be motivated by helping the Olympic idea rather than ecclipsing those games (due to the overlap enforced by the pandemic.)

 

[EdBirch]

@EdBirch or all other connaisseurs in this forum: I'd expect little dissent from you, that any slight thought of toying with the Lions Tour would only be motivated by helping the Olympic idea rather than ecclipsing those games (due to the overlap enforced by the pandemic.)

Why can't the two run concurrently?

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

No, You are absolutely right. They can. Just anybody I know will be hard pressed to watch a bit of the Olympics. Well, perhaps one week of Fidji et al playing sevens. A basketball game maybe.

 

[EdBirch]

No, You are absolutely right. They can. Just anybody I know will be hard pressed to watch a bit of the Olympics. Well, perhaps one week of Fidji et al playing sevens. A basketball game maybe.

The games plus coverage is two hours, the Olympics are 12 hrs a day for three weeks, i'm pretty sure they'll be able to run side by side and no-one will miss anything. Plus a lot of people now have the ability to record/watch on a secondary device.

 

[General Melchett]

It boils down to viewing figures. If people can watch the Olympics for free on terrestrial TV then they will be less are likely to pay to watch the Lions on Sky during summer when the football season has finished. This translates into lower broadcasting income, sponsorship and advertising income etc. for the Lions. Having both at the same time will have an adverse impact financially on the Lions, way more than it will impact the Olympics.

There will also be pressure from the four home nations rugby unions who next year will be trying to recoup lost income due to COVID19.

 

[Leinster Fan]

I can't see it working from a commercial standpoint. The Olympics will gobbke up all the media coverage and viewing figures. The Lions will be reduced to a footnote. The Olympics being free to air while the Lions are on pay tv won't help either.