Your Lions Squad Based on this Season?

[Bada-Bing!]

The great thing about Lions tours to SA are that the games are on at reasonable hour and in the afternoon. Hopefully we'll be back to some normality next summer. What a summer of sport to look forward to with Olympics, Euro 2021 and Lions tour to look forward to.

 

[General Melchett]

I can see Hadleigh Parkes starting at 12

 

[LIONSxv]

I can see Hadleigh Parkes starting at 12

I hope he doesn't. I don't reaky see what parks brings Tbh. Not particularly big, quick, flash feet or known as a distributer. I guess he is decent in defence. I'd start tuilangi at 12 and have a speed merchant at 13. We won't beat SA by trying to go straight through them. England tried and failed badly in the WC.
What we need to do is gain parity at the scrum and lineout and then play around them. That's why I'd have as much mobility as I could in the back row. Whilst also slotting in a ball carrier.
I'd go
1.Mako
2.George
3.Furlong
4.itoje
5.Ryan
6.Curry
7.Tipuric
8.B vunipola ( If fit) or dombrant
9. T Williams
10. Farrel
11. Watson
12. Tuilangi
13. Ringrose
14. May
15. Hogg

 

[big ginger 8]

The brutal and bloody second Lions Test in South Africa in 2009 https://the42.ie/5059381

Murray Kinsella did an analysis of the second test from the last tour to South Africa.

 

[Tking]

So I stumbled across this thread when I was thinking of my own lions squad whilst in lockdown here, so decided to sign up and post it. I personally don't think we'll see a squad of 41 like 2017 due to the tour having less matches. I think it'll be more like 37/38 of the previous tours.

Loose heads:
Mako Vunipola -
Ellis Genge -
Rory Sutherland -

Hookers:
Jamie George -
Luke Cowan Dickie -
Ken Owens -

Tight Heads:
Kyle Sinckler -
Tadgh Furlong -
Zander Faegerson -

Second rows:
Maro Itoje -
James Ryan -
Courtney Lawes -
Iain Henderson
Alun Wyn Jones -

Back Rows:
Tom Curry -
Josh Navidi -
Sam Underhill -
Dan Leavy -
Justin Tipuric -
Billy Vunipola -
CJ Stander -

Scrum Half's:
Tomos Williams -
John Cooney
Rhys Webb -

Fly Half's:
Owen Farrell -
Dan Biggar -
Finn Russell -

Centres:
Manu Tuilagi -
Jonathon Davies -
Gary Ringrose -
Sam Johnson -

Wingers:
Anthony Watson -
Johnny May -
Josh Adams -
Jacob Stockdale
Elliot Daly -

Full Backs:
Liam Williams -
Stuart Hogg -

A few contentious decisions. I think Cooney has been class this year and deserves to start for Ireland over Murray. There is a lack of stand out 12s and Johnson is very impressive at all the basics for Scotland. Daly sneaks in due to versatility and long range boot. Biggar is a similar 10 to Farrell in a lot of respects so think Garland will pick him, but hopefully he also picks Russell to add a bit of variety. Stockdale will go if he is in his best form.

The back row was really tough. Not seen much of Faletau this year but he will deffo be considered. Leavy was outstanding every time I watched him. Feel harsh on Hamish Watson. A bit concerned the back row might be a bit to 7 heavy.

Thoughts?

 

[Greeno]

So I stumbled across this thread when I was thinking of my own lions squad whilst in lockdown here, so decided to sign up and post it. I personally don't think we'll see a squad of 41 like 2017 due to the tour having less matches. I think it'll be more like 37/38 of the previous tours.

Loose heads:
Mako Vunipola -
Ellis Genge -
Rory Sutherland -

Hookers:
Jamie George -
Luke Cowan Dickie -
Ken Owens -

Tight Heads:
Kyle Sinckler -
Tadgh Furlong -
Zander Faegerson -

Second rows:
Maro Itoje -
James Ryan -
Courtney Lawes -
Iain Henderson
Alun Wyn Jones -

Back Rows:
Tom Curry -
Josh Navidi -
Sam Underhill -
Dan Leavy -
Justin Tipuric -
Billy Vunipola -
CJ Stander -

Scrum Half's:
Tomos Williams -
John Cooney
Rhys Webb -

Fly Half's:
Owen Farrell -
Dan Biggar -
Finn Russell -

Centres:
Manu Tuilagi -
Jonathon Davies -
Gary Ringrose -
Sam Johnson -

Wingers:
Anthony Watson -
Johnny May -
Josh Adams -
Jacob Stockdale
Elliot Daly -

Full Backs:
Liam Williams -
Stuart Hogg -

A few contentious decisions. I think Cooney has been class this year and deserves to start for Ireland over Murray. There is a lack of stand out 12s and Johnson is very impressive at all the basics for Scotland. Daly sneaks in due to versatility and long range boot. Biggar is a similar 10 to Farrell in a lot of respects so think Garland will pick him, but hopefully he also picks Russell to add a bit of variety. Stockdale will go if he is in his best form.

The back row was really tough. Not seen much of Faletau this year but he will deffo be considered. Leavy was outstanding every time I watched him. Feel harsh on Hamish Watson. A bit concerned the back row might be a bit to 7 heavy.

Thoughts?

overall I agree with most of this squad but few changes and couple of additions.

front row * I agree with the 9 players selected but I think he will take an extra prop who can cover both sides. My first selection for this addition would be Marler but if he is unavailable than Porter.

lock: agree with all 5 players selected but again I think he will take an extra player which would free up Lawes and Henderson to play 6 for most likely mid week games if needed. So my first choice addition would be Kruis if unavailable than J Gray or Lanchberry who might get more chances with England if Kruis is unavailable.

back row: I do think you have gone to heavy on 7's. So with this is mind I would change leavy for Faletau * started all three test last tour and is well know to Gatland + Ritchie over Tipuric * for me the form 6 in the 6 nations and can cover 7. I just have doubts over Tipuric against a side like SA. For me Curry and Underhill are better suited with navidi/Ritchie filling in if needed.

Scrum half: just the one change for and that would be Davies over Williams.

Fly Half: agree with all 3

centre: for me I would go for Slade over Ringrose. Plus I would also go for another addition player here and that would be Joseph as he has tour experience and can can cover wing. A perfect mid week player to have in the squad.

wing: Just the one Change for me and that would be Nowell over Stockdale. Again has tour experience and can cover a number of positions, like 7

Fullback: agree

So in all a 41 men squad due the physicality of all the games on Tour to South Africa. Look forward to seeing what you and other people think of my squad.

 

[Greeno]

Loose heads:
Mako Vunipola -
Ellis Genge -
Rory Sutherland -

Hookers:
Jamie George -
Luke Cowan Dickie -
Ken Owens -

Tight Heads:
Kyle Sinckler -
Tadgh Furlong -
Zander Faegerson -

L/T head:
Joe Marler -
If unavailable than Andrew Porter.

Second rows:
Maro Itoje -
James Ryan -
Courtney Lawes -
Iain Henderson
Alun Wyn Jones - Tour captain
George Kruis -
If Unavailable that J Gray or Joe lanchberry.

Back Rows:
Tom Curry -
Josh Navidi -
Sam Underhill -
Jamie Ritchie -
Toby Faletau-
Billy Vunipola -
CJ Stander -

Scrum Half's:
Gareth Davies-
John Cooney
Rhys Webb -

Fly Half's:
Owen Farrell - Test captain but would love to see Itoje Captain.
Dan Biggar -
Finn Russell -

Centres:
Manu Tuilagi -
Jonathon Davies -
Henry Slade-
Sam Johnson -
Jonathon Joseph -

Wingers:
Anthony Watson -
Johnny May -
Josh Adams -
Jack Nowell -
Elliot Daly -

Full Backs:
Liam Williams -
Stuart Hogg -

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

centre: for me I would go for Slade over Ringrose. Plus I would also go for another addition player here and that would be Joseph as he has tour experience and can can cover wing. A perfect mid week player to have in the squad.

I'm reading this and I'm just amazed that anyone can think England have (at least) three 13s better than Garry Ringrose.

 

[General Melchett]

overall I agree with most of this squad but few changes and couple of additions.

front row * I agree with the 9 players selected but I think he will take an extra prop who can cover both sides. My first selection for this addition would be Marler but if he is unavailable than Porter.

lock: agree with all 5 players selected but again I think he will take an extra player which would free up Lawes and Henderson to play 6 for most likely mid week games if needed. So my first choice addition would be Kruis if unavailable than J Gray or Lanchberry who might get more chances with England if Kruis is unavailable.

back row: I do think you have gone to heavy on 7's. So with this is mind I would change leavy for Faletau * started all three test last tour and is well know to Gatland + Ritchie over Tipuric * for me the form 6 in the 6 nations and can cover 7. I just have doubts over Tipuric against a side like SA. For me Curry and Underhill are better suited with navidi/Ritchie filling in if needed.

Scrum half: just the one change for and that would be Davies over Williams.

Fly Half: agree with all 3

centre: for me I would go for Slade over Ringrose. Plus I would also go for another addition player here and that would be Joseph as he has tour experience and can can cover wing. A perfect mid week player to have in the squad.

wing: Just the one Change for me and that would be Nowell over Stockdale. Again has tour experience and can cover a number of positions, like 7

Fullback: agree

So in all a 41 men squad due the physicality of all the games on Tour to South Africa. Look forward to seeing what you and other people think of my squad.

Agree with most of this and was thinking the same about Tipuric. While he has great mobility I think he is too lightweight for SA. I also have a question mark over Cooney. While he has been in great form for Ulster I would like to see him deliver at international level for Ireland before giving him a place. Ali Price is also contender for 9 depending on his form next year. Farrell or Biggar at 10 do not fill me with excitement but the former (largely due to goal kicking) is likely to get the nod for the tests. Can Ringrose play on the wing if needed? I'd have him in for Joseph too.

 

[Greeno]

I'm reading this and I'm just amazed that anyone can think England have (at least) three 13s better than Garry Ringrose.

for me Slade and Manu are better and the only reason I went for JJ was due to his experience and versatility. But if Ringrose was selected ahead of him than I wouldn't have a problem with it. What about the rest of the squad ?

 

[big ginger 8]

I know Marler was named as the versatile prop in England's WC squad but did he actually end up playing the position? The only article I can find is from when the squad was named and it's mentioned he hadn't played tighthead in over a decade.

Porter actually played loosehead in the warms ups and had some dominant performances.

I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to bring Ringrose and my national pride does make me wonder why we would be the least represented nation.

Also are people projecting based on Sexton's age? Or is it meant to be based on this season (as the thread ***le says...) because sure he was bad vs England but he seems to quickly becoming underrated.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think Slade is in the same league really, based on this season too Ringrose has probably been the best player in the champions cup and was Ireland's only good starer in the RWC as well as being great prior to injury v Scotland in the 6n.

As for the squad, I reckon our test sides would be fairly similar but the supporting cast not so much. I'm surprised at how much love some Welsh players are getting across the board, Owens, Davies and Bigger are getting by on reputations alone imo.

 

[General Melchett]

I don't think Slade is in the same league really, based on this season too Ringrose has probably been the best player in the champions cup and was Ireland's only good starer in the RWC as well as being great prior to injury v Scotland in the 6n.

As for the squad, I reckon our test sides would be fairly similar but the supporting cast not so much. I'm surprised at how much love some Welsh players are getting across the board, Owens, Davies and Bigger are getting by on reputations alone imo.

I think there's an element of which Welsh players people think Gatland will pick due to the fact that he knows and trusts them. Of those three I'd only take JDavies assuming he's in form next year. He's proved he can deliver on a Lions tour. Not sure I'd bring Rhys Webb either unless his form is off the charts next year.

 

[Greeno]

I don't think Slade is in the same league really, based on this season too Ringrose has probably been the best player in the champions cup and was Ireland's only good starer in the RWC as well as being great prior to injury v Scotland in the 6n.

As for the squad, I reckon our test sides would be fairly similar but the supporting cast not so much. I'm surprised at how much love some Welsh players are getting across the board, Owens, Davies and Bigger are getting by on reputations alone imo.

obviously I don't agree with you over Ringrose but like I said he if made it in the squad than I'll be fine with that. your right about the welsh players like JD but you got to also remember who is head coach. If they are on the downward spire than it will show up even more next 6 nations and Gatland will find it even harder to pick them.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The break might do him well but Mako has been poor the last year or so - his loose play no way makes up for his scrummaging anymore
I'd probably take him but he wouldn't/shouldn't be in the 23

 

[Tking]

I'd agree with the Irish lads on here that I really rate Ringrose, and was surprised he didn't go on the last tour - I think he's a shoe in for the tour and would probably end up as a test starter if JD hasn't rediscovered his form and fitness. If JD isn't fit, then Slade would replace him in my original squad.

Haven't seen enough of Ritchie to make me include him but have heard good things about him so will keep an eye out. Think Mark Wilson could be a good outside bet to go as a 6 but covers the whole back row. Also I think Stockdale is being very overlooked, if he can get back to his 2018 form then we can't ignore him.

Personally, I think the back row and the wingers will be the most contentious areas of the squad and come really down to form next year. A lot of the squad I picked I think are shoe ins if fit.

My test 23:
1. Sutherland
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Ryan
6. Navidi
7. Curry
8. Stander
9. Webb
10. Farrell
11. Adams
12. Manu
13. JD/Ringrose
14. Watson
15. Williams

16. Cowan Dickie
17. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Williams
22. Russell
23. Hogg

Strong scrummagers to start. Navidi at 6 for the physicality. Stander a bit better in the tight than billy. Back 3 all really strong under the high ball. That bench is full of game changers and impact of players, much like the boks bench is. Itoje or Ryan to captain but most likely Faz.

On another note, I'm wanting to go for a bit of the tour next summer, anyone got any experience of going on tour?

 

[FrankfurtRugbyWatcher4]

Wrote down my 1st "2021 Lions squad" a week after the final whistle 2017 for that draw in The Land of The Long White Cloud. It's just so much fun.
Based on who was then available. And likely to last being in top form given the riches available.
Now every International Saeson, every summer tour or autumn tour saeson, let alone the World Cup is worth a revision. It is just so much fun.
Now here is where we're at in my humble, debatable opinion. It will change in a minute. Well with the next batch of tests. Yeah gimme some.
So I see the intermediate summary like this:
1 M. Vunipola (Evans / Sutherland)
2 McInally (George)
3 Furlong (Sinckler)
4 Ryan (Henderson)
5 Lawes (Ball)
6 Itoje (Stander)
7 Curry (Underhill)
8 B. Vunipola (M. Wilson)
9 Price (Webb)
10 Farrell (Russell)
11 May (Adams)
12 Slade (Johnson)
13 Tuilagi (Daly)
14 Larmour (Stockdale)
15 Hogg (L. Williams)
Hard to leave out Fagerson, Williams, Navidi, Wainwright, Ritchie, Tipuric, H. Watson, G. Horne, Cooney, Carbery, Ford, Anscombe, North, Cokanasiga, Graham, A. Watson. Some of those will make it, as the squad will be larger than 30 in number.
It is clear that the depth could be better at loose head, hooker and lock (especially if Lawes won't be able to last longer than Paulie O'Connell did, same age then, on the 2013 tour.) Given the standards at this level.
Owens, AW Jones, Faletau, Cipriani, J. Davies, Aki, and Parkes won't last that long.
Genge and Gray are too light, to match that opponent in the set piece. After being dismantled 2009 in the scrum and unable to cope with the South African maul, Mears, Vickery, and Alun Wyn Jones had to be replaced to beef up the pack. This happened again to Cole and Itjoje at the world cup final.
Huw Jones, Joseph, and Ringrose have got other frailties.

 

[General Melchett]

Okay seeing as there is not much else to do:

1. Sutherland (based on 6N and his ability in the loose)
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Ryan
6. Underhill (but could arguably be Ritchie or Stander)
7. Curry
8. Vunipola
9. G Davies (assuming he's first choice for Wales)
10. Farrell (Russell off the bench for impact if needed)
11. Whoever is in form from Watson, May, Nowell, Williams, Larmour, Conway, Stockdale, Adams
12. Tuilagi
13. J Davies
14. Whoever is in form from Watson, May, Nowell, Williams, Larmour, Conway, Stockdale, Adams
15. Hogg

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Very good call on Mark Wilson. We're going to need a heavyweight pack and he'd be a great horses for courses selection at 6.

If available I'd also have Kruis right in the mix.

 

[munstermuffin]

I know Marler was named as the versatile prop in England's WC squad but did he actually end up playing the position? The only article I can find is from when the squad was named and it's mentioned he hadn't played tighthead in over a decade.

Porter actually played loosehead in the warms ups and had some dominant performances.

I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to bring Ringrose and my national pride does make me wonder why we would be the least represented nation.

Also are people projecting based on Sexton's age? Or is it meant to be based on this season (as the thread ***le says...) because sure he was bad vs England but he seems to quickly becoming underrated.

To be fair even based on this season Sexton has been nowhere near levels of Russell and Farrell.
Not that he's been poor or won't tour or start but his season has been stop/start and average. But not many others have been ahead