Where's the hype?

[ZeroTwo]

Issue with Moore is he can sometimes simplify the problem. He'll find something not going right (scrummaging, kicking etc) then get fanatically wound up about one player and their inadequacy.

He's right that they'll be doing something wrong but it's ALL he'll talk about and all he will blame.

 

[AzaMatt]

Not sure how to quote on the app but I can't stand Brian Moore commentating either, he might well know his stuff but he seems TOO personal about things if that makes any sense. As in if he sees something he'll just get incredibly wound up by it (or so it seems). Others just say "I thought that would be a different decision" etc but Moore would say something like "that's just awful refereeing, just awful" in a really ****** off way. I prefer the commentators to just commentate, it's nice to hear their opinion but not constantly on every moment of the match! Lol. On another note id like to point out that I wasn't having a dig at the English with my last post, I consider it a friendly rivalry and Mainly because when I was growing up we rarely beat England so it was a rare occasion it would happen as they were a different class to us at some point where as now we could beat each other from match to match. Ireland gave us both a pasting the past couple of years but the welsh have always enjoyed beating them as well, we just like it more when we beat England as they hammered us for so long, well at least during my lifetime (26). Life story over, can't wait for the weekend!

 

[valley commando]

*jaw drops*

I've never heard a welshman compliment Moore before...to come from your mouth....I need to check how I travelled how I crossed dimensions into this reality.

It's not tongue in cheek either I really do think Moore is never far from the truth, well certainly as I see it anyway. He's blunt and to the point, he doesn't suffer fools

 

[optimuswolf]

TBF even when the All Blacks play the likes of Samoa, the Haka and the Sivi Tau are done, they usually give each other the time to finish before the other starts in response ... so I don't see why the crowd can't "wait" and then respond.

The Haka is a New Zealand thing, that has more significance to some, than the national anthem, so it's not anyone else's to do away with ... are the various national anthems for entertainment value? If not, why not do away with them, or why can't the various nations sing over top of them?

No the haka isn't an anthem its a war dance. I don't see why opposition can't just ignore it and carry on drills. As a fan i ignore it and carry on talking/drinking until the actual rugby starts.

Ad others have said its only allowed because of the spectacle.

 

[Tony Manx]

There is no hype; merely ignorance, prejudice and whatabouttery.

I might become a hermit for the duration of the tournament.

Moi Aussi!!!

No the haka isn't an anthem its a war dance. I don't see why opposition can't just ignore it and carry on drills. As a fan i ignore it and carry on talking/drinking until the actual rugby starts.

Ad others have said its only allowed because of the spectacle.

Moi Aussi!!!

 

[Kiwi_]

Brian Moore and Phil Kearns, lol.

 

[smartcooky]

No the haka isn't an anthem its a war dance.

Try not to pontificate about things of which you are completely ignorant. Not all Haka are war dances, in fact, the vast majority are not.

The jury is still out on whether "Ka Mate" is a war dance (the translation suggests that it isn't), and "Kapa O Pango" definitely is not.

The thing that is absent in both, which makes them not war dances, is any mention of maiming the enemy or wishing harm upon them. Both the All Blacks' Haka are about the challenge ahead, and most importantly, they require no audience. This is why the All backs were quite happy to do the Haka in the changing rooms in Wales in 2006 when the WRU tried to mess with tradition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rzmpQRZg4

Look how that turned out for Wales both on and off the field! (45-10?)

IMO, the All Blacks should only do the Haka on the playing field as of right in home matches. For away matches, they should offer it to the host union. If the host union declines, then they simply do it in the changing shed (which as we have seen, makes not a jot of difference to us) and the crowd is denied (the television audience will still see it). This shifts responsibility onto the host union, who then cop the backlash from their public (and they WILL cop plenty). I cannot think of a host union, other then perhaps the ARU, who would decline.

If you want a war cry, however, look no further than La Marseillaise. Its if full of blood, gore, battle imagery and invocations of death to the enemy.

To arms citizens Form your battalions
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows

Drive on sacred patriotism
Support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty
Join the struggle with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your manly tone
So that in death your enemies
See your triumph and our glory!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can we please not have yet another dull conversation about the haka.

 

[optimuswolf]

Try not to pontificate about things of which you are completely ignorant. Not all Haka are war dances, in fact, the vast majority are not.

The jury is still out on whether "Ka Mate" is a war dance (the translation suggests that it isn't), and "Kapa O Pango" definitely is not.

The thing that is absent in both, which makes them not war dances, is any mention of maiming the enemy or wishing harm upon them. Both the All Blacks' Haka are about the challenge ahead, and most importantly, they require no audience. This is why the All backs were quite happy to do the Haka in the changing rooms in Wales in 2006 when the WRU tried to mess with tradition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rzmpQRZg4

Look how that turned out for Wales both on and off the field! (45-10?)

IMO, the All Blacks should only do the Haka on the playing field as of right in home matches. For away matches, they should offer it to the host union. If the host union declines, then they simply do it in the changing shed (which as we have seen, makes not a jot of difference to us) and the crowd is denied (the television audience will still see it). This shifts responsibility onto the host union, who then cop the backlash from their public (and they WILL cop plenty). I cannot think of a host union, other then perhaps the ARU, who would decline.

If you want a war cry, however, look no further than La Marseillaise. Its if full of blood, gore, battle imagery and invocations of death to the enemy.

To arms citizens Form your battalions
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows

Drive on sacred patriotism
Support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty
Join the struggle with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your manly tone
So that in death your enemies
See your triumph and our glory!

Sorry mate but war dance, battle dance, its semantics. If its not a war dance then do it facing the crowd and not the oppo. Or in the changing room as you suggest like other teams do their motivating work. Don't make the oppo wait while you do it or at a push have it replace the NZ anthem and be done prior to the home anthem .

Is that enough pontification for you?

If i was in charge of a RFU I actually would have no problem with the haka but i wouldn't require my team to stand and watch - I'd just let them get on with preparing for the match, warming up etc.

I'm not sure whether the haka gives NZ an advantage but for me its about principle - sport should be rigorously fair to both sides both during the game and in the buildup.

 

[Kiwi_]

I have no problem with teams challenging the Haka, what the French did in the final in 2011 was fine, teams should just make their own form of 'challange' when facing the Haka, where it be walk towards it or yell 'come on', just what ever gets them psyched up and prepared for the game. But you have to admit, the Haka is a pretty iconic part of Rugby now, whether you like it or not, the talk of getting rid of it is stupid and from the prejudice side of the community.

 

[optimuswolf]

I have no problem with teams challenging the Haka, what the French did in the final in 2011 was fine, teams should just make their own form of 'challange' when facing the Haka, where it be walk towards it or yell 'come on', just what ever gets them psyched up and prepared for the game. But you have to admit, the Haka is a pretty iconic part of Rugby now, whether you like it or not, the talk of getting rid of it is stupid and from the prejudice side of the community.

Don't want to argue but i think i made my point perfectly well without it being driven by prejudice.

Anyhow - hype is building amongst my friends. Tickets for the Aus game and QF ready (assuming England top the group which I'd put at just over 50%).

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I don't mind the but teams should be allowed to challenge it. It's a challenge/threat/whatever, teams should be allowed to reply in kind.

The junior Wales match where the Welsh line inched towards it was great, imo, as was Brian Moore (I think) walking straight up to it. It's not always a good idea, but it should be allowed as long as it's not disrespectful.

 

[Mcfadden]

Sorry mate but war dance, battle dance, its semantics. If its not a war dance then do it facing the crowd and not the oppo. Or in the changing room as you suggest like other teams do their motivating work. Don't make the oppo wait while you do it or at a push have it replace the NZ anthem and be done prior to the home anthem .

Is that enough pontification for you?

If i was in charge of a RFU I actually would have no problem with the haka but i wouldn't require my team to stand and watch - I'd just let them get on with preparing for the match, warming up etc.

I'm not sure whether the haka gives NZ an advantage but for me its about principle - sport should be rigorously fair to both sides both during the game and in the buildup.

The trouble with that is, aside from the 2007 quarterfinal, the bulk of rare times teams HAVE challenged it or done something other than observing it they've usually been walloped. I couldn't really care less what teams do, but I very much doubt they'd show that level of disinterest and disengagement. Just looks like you're not taking your opposition seriously - and in international rugby (or sport in general) you do that at your own peril.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Stop.

 

[Mcfadden]

Stop what?

It's a discussion. If someone can't handle that then they need to grow up.

 

[Kiwi_]

Don't want to argue but i think i made my point perfectly well without it being driven by prejudice.

Anyhow - hype is building amongst my friends. Tickets for the Aus game and QF ready (assuming England top the group which I'd put at just over 50%).

If people can't appreciate it as an iconic part of the game and respect it as a significant cultural gesture and spectacle then they themselves have little culture or tolerance. It's a pretty exceptional and unique experience that's widely appreciated at revered, it's brought the game a lot of attention over the years. It's traditional and should never be removed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If you want to talk about the haka then make another thread on it - the discussion has been done to death in the past.

This ain't the thread for boring old semantics, it's for pure unabridged hype.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Will Greenwood was on the One show on BBC one last night promoting the Rugby World Cup with the two presenters and some dweeb who shouldn't have been there.
They are trying to build the hype, which evolved around trying to kick drop goals passed mannikins of famous Australian people (well famous in England anyway it's been a long time since Jason Donavon was anything in New Zealand.) to emulate Wilkinsons effort in the 2003 final.
They are trying to build the hype but a LOT more needs to be done.

 

[Stumpy]

The London Underground are going to show live scores on the train timetables which in theory is really good idea but as someone who will record the games then watch them when I'm home I don't want to have the result spoiled when I'm trying to check when my train comes

 

[TommiG88]

The London Underground are going to show live scores on the train timetables which in theory is really good idea but as someone who will record the games then watch them when I'm home I don't want to have the result spoiled when I'm trying to check when my train comes

Trust the force and get on any train.

England ironed and folded waiting to be worn, Guinness cooling in the fridge for the weekend games. Looking forward to stepping over the threshold of the pub Friday evening in preparation of a (hopefully) glorious start to the world cup.

All 9 games will be watched and enjoyed this weekend.