Tony Conrad
Academy Player
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
-
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
What now for NH rugby?
- Thread starter dunney77
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2011
- Messages
- 8,341
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
So can you name 1 side that has fielded a team of only non English qualified players?
AzaMatt
Bench Player
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2014
- Messages
- 797
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
im assuming he means spin the ball out wide
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2011
- Messages
- 11,730
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Nah I think he means actually spinning the ball. A lot of NH players will spin the ball every time, even in tight spaces where it is actually awkward to do and a pop pass would work much better. Players tend to spin in close situations and really fire the pass into the player, which makes it difficult to catch.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 8,538
- Club or Nation
Arsenal did at least once!!
I know your probably sarcastic but I think he's reffering to the AP
Chelsea were the first in Footy I belive.
Yes, I meant to pass the ball. Quite a lot of NH players (especially forwards) take the ball into contact if they ever get possession. No thought of passing.
I think Chelsea were first but it was a cup game, Arsenal were first to do it in the premier league iirc.
- Joined
- May 25, 2007
- Messages
- 5,708
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
No, Tony is right, I was referring to the EPL.
The words "Starting XI" and "football" were a clue!
Arsenal for the match v Crystal Palace, Feb 14 ,2005
Starting XI
Jens Lehman (Germany)
Lauren (Cameroun)
Kolo Toure (Ivory Coast)
Pascal Cygan (France)
Gael Clichy (France)
Roberto Pires (France)
Patrick Vieira (France)
Edu Gaspar (Brazil)
Jose Reyes (Spain)
Dennis Bergkamp (Netherlands)
Thierry Henry (France)
Subs Used
Cesc Fabregas (Spain)
Mathieu Flamini (France)
Robin van Persie (Netherlands)
Subs unused
Philippe Senderos (Switzerland)
Manuel Almunia (Spain)
They have routinely had less than 6 England eligible players in their first team since then
During the 2013/14 season, Chelsea had only two England players in their first team, Gary Cahill and John Terry.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2011
- Messages
- 8,341
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
I was referring to the AP, I know the football league in England is riddled with overseas players but the AP isn't and despite all the predictions of doom continues to have a higher percentage of English qualified than overseas ones.
yeah but what has Wendyball got to do with the price of bread? We're talking about rugby and it doesn't have the same level of foreign on player issues.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2011
- Messages
- 8,341
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Oh come on ncurd! According to TRF logic the AP is the source of all evil and is trying to destroy the English game by flooding the league with money hungry jonny foreigners and never developing any English players.
Much better to let those not at all self-serving chaps at the RFU run things because they made such a great job of selecting the England head coach these last 12 years.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2013
- Messages
- 26,135
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Well AP want to screw things even more.
Why not make academy products exempt from the cap instead of rising it.
For example Robshaw, Marler etc etc would be exempt for Quins, Youngs, Cole, Croft etc etc would be exempt for Tigers and for Bath Hooper and Bananaman would be exempt for bath
.
Why not make academy products exempt from the cap instead of rising it.
For example Robshaw, Marler etc etc would be exempt for Quins, Youngs, Cole, Croft etc etc would be exempt for Tigers and for Bath Hooper and Bananaman would be exempt for bath
.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2013
- Messages
- 26,135
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
What's a salary cap thought we spent what we wanted then set a number others could spend afterwards
It's alright just Bath have destroyed everything good about rugby ever.
Still not as bad as Saints.
THE NORTH-SOUTH DIVIDE from "The Breakdown" from the Guardian
Alex Cuthbert was torn in two by Duane Vermeulen and Fourie du Preez five minutes from the end of Wales's quarter-final against South Africa at Twickenham and then torn to shreds on social media for dumping his side out of the World Cup through what, put in politer terms, was viewed as a schoolboy blunder.
Failure seems to prompt a witch-hunt for a victim – Craig Joubert was to fill Cuthbert's role 24 hours later – as the emotion generated by disappointment spews out vitriol. In past eras, the invective would have been confined to living rooms, bars and public transport but it now goes global in a click and spawns a furious frenzy, not quite what PG Wodehouse had in mind when he wrote his short story The Clicking of Cuthbert.
Cuthbert, it is not premature to say, will not feature in any teams of the tournament. The World Cup was not his finest month in what has not been the most memorable year of his career and he was only playing because of Wales's numerous injury problems in the three-quarters – but to hold the wing responsible for Wales's defeat for going to tackle Vermeulen as the No8 broke from a scrum, giving Du Preez an unguarded line to run at, not only ignores the skill shown in the play and the brilliance of the move that was called but also holds an individual responsible for what was a collective failure.
Related: Craig Joubert the scapegoat when World Rugby should look in the mirror | Paul Rees
The lack of a European presence in the quarter-finals for the first time since the start of the World Cup 28 years ago should prompt an examination of the way the game in the north is organised, not least whether starting the Six Nations in February is conducive to the handling game that helped take New Zealand, Australia and Argentina to the semi-finals, even if Scotland lost to the Wallabies through a disputed penalty one minute from time and Du Preez's try finished Wales.
The vilification of Cuthbert would have been the same had he stayed out wide to cover an opponent who was not in view and Vermeulen had got to the line. The try was skilfully engineered by South Africa, who had lined up their backs on the openside. They wheeled the scrum so that when Du Preez changed direction to move towards Cuthbert's wing, the Wales flanker Sam Warburton, who was playing out of position on the blindside, could not pick him up in time. Wales's scrum-half Lloyd Williams was similarly fooled and the result was a try worthy of winning any game.
While South Africa look a side that would be comfortable in the Six Nations, direct and confrontational, preferring to keep skill a secret, all the sides in Europe would have to make radical adjustments if they competed in the Rugby Championship. The Argentina defence coach, Pablo Bouza, questioned this week whether the Pumas' game would have developed so quickly had they been admitted into the Six Nations rather than joined New Zealand, South Africa and Australia.
It is not that players in Europe lack skill, far from it. The approach is more conservative and risk averse. "You have to earn the right to go wide," is a coaching mantra in the north but it took Argentina only a couple of minutes to do just that against Ireland last Sunday. The final weekend of last season's Six Nations showed what was possible, Wales setting a high bar for Ireland to leap over after letting rip in Rome in the second half and England had to go higher again at the end of the day, just falling short.
It was an exhilarating one-off and even France joined in. Sadder than their annihilation by New Zealand last Saturday is the chains that have come to bind Les Bleus. To watch Argentina during this tournament is to glimpse into the past when the French were a heady mix of power and panache; they were temperamental and could be indisciplined but they played the game like no other, forwards with the skill of basketball players and slick backs who relished risk. They had a joy of playing but now they have come to resemble factory workers clocking on at the start of the week.
What the World Cup has shown is that there is a difference between north and south, not the hemispheres as such but the Six Nations and the Rugby Championship. World Rugby has been looking at whether a global season is feasible: it would mean the Six Nations moving in the calendar, if only by a month, but the European unions are adamant that what they boast is the most successful tournament outside the World Cup is not for shifting, even by a month.
As long as the unions, or most of them, do not have to worry about selling tickets for Six Nations matches they are under no pressure to, in marketing terms, review their product. The Rugby Championship is no less physical than the Six Nations but it has a far greater emphasis on skill, pace and space than its European counterpart. Their rugby public is demanding and will not hand over money because of tradition.
England and Wales make much of their academy systems but are they producing rugby players in the sense of learning through their experiences on the field in their formative years or clones who from far too young an age become used to being told what to do? Wales gave it a real rip in the World Cup, lacking nothing in courage, but when their matches against Australia and South Africa reached the point where what counted was not coaching or preparation but instinct, they came up short.
It is an age of conformity in which mavericks are regarded as dangerous. A difference between the Rugby Championship and the Six Nations can be seen in Ma'a Nonu and Manu Tuilagi, two players who started their senior careers at outside centre. Tuilagi, when fit, still wears 13, but Nonu has long been converted into a 12, even though he initially did little more than stick his head down and charge.
He is now the complete footballing package, if not quite a second-five in the traditional New Zealand mould, someone who still takes some stopping but who brings others into play. That side of Tuilagi has still to be brought out even though he has shown he has the passing skills. It is the difference between a tournament that asks how high rather than how much.
Alex Cuthbert was torn in two by Duane Vermeulen and Fourie du Preez five minutes from the end of Wales's quarter-final against South Africa at Twickenham and then torn to shreds on social media for dumping his side out of the World Cup through what, put in politer terms, was viewed as a schoolboy blunder.
Failure seems to prompt a witch-hunt for a victim – Craig Joubert was to fill Cuthbert's role 24 hours later – as the emotion generated by disappointment spews out vitriol. In past eras, the invective would have been confined to living rooms, bars and public transport but it now goes global in a click and spawns a furious frenzy, not quite what PG Wodehouse had in mind when he wrote his short story The Clicking of Cuthbert.
Cuthbert, it is not premature to say, will not feature in any teams of the tournament. The World Cup was not his finest month in what has not been the most memorable year of his career and he was only playing because of Wales's numerous injury problems in the three-quarters – but to hold the wing responsible for Wales's defeat for going to tackle Vermeulen as the No8 broke from a scrum, giving Du Preez an unguarded line to run at, not only ignores the skill shown in the play and the brilliance of the move that was called but also holds an individual responsible for what was a collective failure.
Related: Craig Joubert the scapegoat when World Rugby should look in the mirror | Paul Rees
The lack of a European presence in the quarter-finals for the first time since the start of the World Cup 28 years ago should prompt an examination of the way the game in the north is organised, not least whether starting the Six Nations in February is conducive to the handling game that helped take New Zealand, Australia and Argentina to the semi-finals, even if Scotland lost to the Wallabies through a disputed penalty one minute from time and Du Preez's try finished Wales.
The vilification of Cuthbert would have been the same had he stayed out wide to cover an opponent who was not in view and Vermeulen had got to the line. The try was skilfully engineered by South Africa, who had lined up their backs on the openside. They wheeled the scrum so that when Du Preez changed direction to move towards Cuthbert's wing, the Wales flanker Sam Warburton, who was playing out of position on the blindside, could not pick him up in time. Wales's scrum-half Lloyd Williams was similarly fooled and the result was a try worthy of winning any game.
While South Africa look a side that would be comfortable in the Six Nations, direct and confrontational, preferring to keep skill a secret, all the sides in Europe would have to make radical adjustments if they competed in the Rugby Championship. The Argentina defence coach, Pablo Bouza, questioned this week whether the Pumas' game would have developed so quickly had they been admitted into the Six Nations rather than joined New Zealand, South Africa and Australia.
It is not that players in Europe lack skill, far from it. The approach is more conservative and risk averse. "You have to earn the right to go wide," is a coaching mantra in the north but it took Argentina only a couple of minutes to do just that against Ireland last Sunday. The final weekend of last season's Six Nations showed what was possible, Wales setting a high bar for Ireland to leap over after letting rip in Rome in the second half and England had to go higher again at the end of the day, just falling short.
It was an exhilarating one-off and even France joined in. Sadder than their annihilation by New Zealand last Saturday is the chains that have come to bind Les Bleus. To watch Argentina during this tournament is to glimpse into the past when the French were a heady mix of power and panache; they were temperamental and could be indisciplined but they played the game like no other, forwards with the skill of basketball players and slick backs who relished risk. They had a joy of playing but now they have come to resemble factory workers clocking on at the start of the week.
What the World Cup has shown is that there is a difference between north and south, not the hemispheres as such but the Six Nations and the Rugby Championship. World Rugby has been looking at whether a global season is feasible: it would mean the Six Nations moving in the calendar, if only by a month, but the European unions are adamant that what they boast is the most successful tournament outside the World Cup is not for shifting, even by a month.
As long as the unions, or most of them, do not have to worry about selling tickets for Six Nations matches they are under no pressure to, in marketing terms, review their product. The Rugby Championship is no less physical than the Six Nations but it has a far greater emphasis on skill, pace and space than its European counterpart. Their rugby public is demanding and will not hand over money because of tradition.
England and Wales make much of their academy systems but are they producing rugby players in the sense of learning through their experiences on the field in their formative years or clones who from far too young an age become used to being told what to do? Wales gave it a real rip in the World Cup, lacking nothing in courage, but when their matches against Australia and South Africa reached the point where what counted was not coaching or preparation but instinct, they came up short.
It is an age of conformity in which mavericks are regarded as dangerous. A difference between the Rugby Championship and the Six Nations can be seen in Ma'a Nonu and Manu Tuilagi, two players who started their senior careers at outside centre. Tuilagi, when fit, still wears 13, but Nonu has long been converted into a 12, even though he initially did little more than stick his head down and charge.
He is now the complete footballing package, if not quite a second-five in the traditional New Zealand mould, someone who still takes some stopping but who brings others into play. That side of Tuilagi has still to be brought out even though he has shown he has the passing skills. It is the difference between a tournament that asks how high rather than how much.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 8,538
- Club or Nation
No sarcasm intended......
- Joined
- May 25, 2007
- Messages
- 5,708
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
The Jones Boy
First XV
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2013
- Messages
- 2,748
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
The northern hemisphere has got the players but the coaches have to let them have the freedom.
Also, the teams in the RC have a far harder competition week in and week out every year to focus their tournament skills compared to the Grand Old Lady of the 6 Nations that is in dire need of an overhaul and the creation of a second tier 5 nations.
Also, a Plate competition at the world cup as mooted by Brian Moore would be an excellent addition to the next RWC.
Also, the teams in the RC have a far harder competition week in and week out every year to focus their tournament skills compared to the Grand Old Lady of the 6 Nations that is in dire need of an overhaul and the creation of a second tier 5 nations.
Also, a Plate competition at the world cup as mooted by Brian Moore would be an excellent addition to the next RWC.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2011
- Messages
- 11,730
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
It's alright just Bath have destroyed everything good about rugby ever.
Still not as bad as Saints.
Someones bottom is still sore from that lovely game last time Bath and Tigers met in the AP. Here is a link just in case you have forgotten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z-GTAg9_RAYeah Bath broke the salary cap but Bath have also used that breach to play some of the most exciting rugby in the AP so it's not all bad.
