What No Sanzar? Where To For Australian & New Zealand Rugby?

[Te Puke Thunder]

It's fair to say that since its inception in 1996 Sanzar hasn't always been the bed of roses one would hope it to be and even now in 2010 Sanzar relationships have been a little strained.

This time round South African rugby seems to have been rubbed the wrong way and it has even got to the point where they have explored the options of joining the Six Natons when the current deal ends in 2015.

If South Africa were to bail, what options would Australia and New Zealand Rugby have in terms of plans for the future? Of course by 2015 we will have had Argentina in the mix for three years and who knows maybe a 16th Super Rugby team.

Could they start an Australiasian Super Rugby tournament with both New Zealand and Australian teams playing? Maybe throw in a few of the lesser provincial or state teams from both countries? Or add the long talked about teams from the Pacific Islands, Argentina or Japan.

What about the international scene? They would be back to a Tri-Nations tournament with South Africa gone. Maybe Australia and New Zealand could join an expanded Pacific Nations Cup (Samoa, Fiji, Tonga) that could include the likes of Argentina, Japan, Canada and USA.

It all sounds less appealing when South African Rugby isn't in the mix but this isn't the first time they have cried wolf. It just fascinates me as to what would become of rugby down here in our little corner of the world. :huh:

 

[Amobokoboko]

It would be a little disaster if SA would step out of it.
The Pacific Islands + Argentina have lots of talents but not that financially strong.
Japan, Canada and USA have the capital but are missing the experience.

Basically, where you now have a top 3 playing against each other, with NZ dominating lately. You will now have only two top teams and NZ continues his dominance.

 

[Teh Mite]

SANZARs bloody-minded stubborness over allowing Argentina to join their elite club over the past decade (purely because they didn't think they would generate them a profit) was always going to signal the death knell. Tournaments come and go, so with a bit of luck the IRB may put together a SH nations tournament which isn't overseen by a privately run bunch of fatcats.

The only shame will be the impending death of the Super 15. I can't see it surviving if the SARU decide to take their ball and run home.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

It seems as though the SARU are threatening to pull out of Sanzar.

However, assuming this is true, Australia and New Zealand would court Japan to take their place above the Pacific Islands. The reason isn't rugby based but is solely concerned with one thing: $. Japan has an enormous economy and with the World Cup in 2019 giving the sport added exposure, TV revenue could be on a similar level with that of South Africa (or at least far greater than what Fiji, Samoa and Tonga would bring to the table).

Wasn't there talk a few years ago (maybe 5 years ago) that SA were exploring the possibilily of entering the Magners League? It sounded like BS because the SA teams wold dominate but the benefits for them are away games in a similar time zone and travelling being a little easier too.

 

[Logorrhea]

Surely we can just change the rules of the world game so everyone scores more tries? Isnt that what we do when teams from the SH get antsy?

 

[nickdnz]

Surely we can just change the rules of the world game so everyone scores more tries? Isnt that what we do when teams from the SH get antsy?

...Ouch.

On a slightly different note, I love the Great Guam rugby reference in your location.

 

[Sam Owen]

Well one thing is for sure the Springbok's wont get their normal quality sparring with the Wallabies and the All Blacks which I think has helped their Rugby and vice versa. One thing I think the tri-nations teams has over the 6 nations is the tri-nations competition as well as the Super Rugby (criticise me I do not care). Im not disrespecting the 6 nations I know its a fantastic competition but when you look at the success rate of the southren trio its really quite high, so then you wonder why that is and my conclusion is that's because they play tri-nations and Super Rugby. Anyway bottom line is it'll be sad to to see the Springboks go if they do.

 

[Prestwick]

Are South Africa..sorry wait let me start again.

Are SARU (not the South African public) that willing to throw a strop that they'd walk out of SANZAR, buggering up probably the best part of fifteen years worth of patient development at regional and national level in the process? Are they that willing to go and kick Argentina in the teeth and walk out of the 4N and sink Super Rugby while they're at it?

In the process of endlessly complaining that the world is out to get them have they seriously thought this through?

Because in all honesty I don't think they have. If they do walk out of SANZAR its going to get mighty lonely mighty fast in South Africa between February and September.

I mean they can only play so much sodding Currie Cup rugby down there. Any more and it'll turn into a farce like Major League Baseball which has about a billion games before the playoffs.

EDIT: After being briefed on the state of Japanese club ruby by Charles in Tokyo I think we all know in our heart of hearts that including Japan in SANZAR just isn't going to happen.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I really hope it doesn't happen but what can we do? Please don't blame us South Africans (I know, I'm a Dutch-born but feel South African) for this. It's the ridiculous SARU board deciding this stupid thing. We've had some trouble handling Mr. Pringles as a headcoach for our national team and now we might drop out of the Tri-Nations (only problem is the lack of teams, I'd prefer a SH Six-Nations) and Super Rugby?

All these years the Super Rugby competition has grown from 6 to 8, to 10, to 12, to 14 and now 15. What will happen to the franchises? Will it even be possible playing in a competition together with European teams? A 12-hour flight is not the problem. It's even the same time-zone so no jetlag problems. I think there will be some resistance from European teams to this idea.

Don't get me wrong, a Super Rugby competition worldwide would be amazing! But that has to include the NZ and AR teams as well.

I just hope nothing will change. I love the way things are now. A quad-nations (or 4-nations) will be a boost with the addition of Argentina. Maybe they can add Samoa/Tonga and Fiji to it, making it a SH 6-Nations.

I think I can speak for all South Africans when I say:"We don't want out of SANZAR, SARU does."

 

[Shaggy]

Fortunately 2015 is still a few years away, and things/attitudes can change ... who's to say what SARU or the other SANZAR partners attitudes will be by then

Regardless of whether SARU pull out or not, my opinion is that engaging the Pacific islands, Japan, Canada, and the US in better competition/promoting the game is long overdue.

It's encouraging to see that the teams that will make the quarter finals is no longer a forgone conclusion, but more work needs to be done to make international rugby more competitive.

In summary, rather than think of this potential change (or any change) as negative, SANZAR and the IRB should always be looking at expansion for the good of the game as a whole

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah its the guys at SARU who are responsible for this.

Has anyone even consulted with the Super Rugby franchises that are set to lose out if South Africa pulled out of SANZAR?!

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

EDIT: After being briefed on the state of Japanese club ruby by Charles in Tokyo I think we all know in our heart of hearts that including Japan in SANZAR just isn't going to happen.

The standard is indeed **** but it's a **** standard in the world's 3rd biggest economy. Everyones favourite CEO John O'Neill has openly spoken about playing tests in Japan and possibly adding a Super franchise in that country. I 100% agree that there'd be 100 point thrashings every week if Japanese teams were thrown into the competition.

It's a moot point though because the ARU and NZRU will call the SARUs bluff.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

As an aside, if the SARU were to pull the Proteas and SA franchises out of the Tri Nations and Super Rugby, would the iRB allow it? I think the iRB have veto power over such a move and they could veto the decision since it would cause untold damage to the finances of NZ and Australia's unions

 

[Sker]

I'm sorry SARU, WHAT?

 

[smartcooky]

More bluff, bluster and idle threats from the loonies running SARU!

If not in SANZAR then where?

► Europe? There is no room for South African teams in Europe... its already full over the brim with domestic and international rugby. The PRL will never buy into another international match on the 6N schedule.

► Can anyone really see rugby being played in South Africa from October to January, at the height of summer, when the grounds are like concrete?

As for NZ and Australia without South Africa, I see no reason why we couldn't have franchises based in Japan and Argentina. Its no further flying to Argentina than it is to South Africa. With Japan holding the RWC in 2019, they will be busting themselves to increase the profile of rugby in that country.

Super 15, with five NZ teams, five Australian teams, two based in Japan and three in Argentina is quite a mouthwatering prospect. At least we wouldn't have to put up with all the incessant "poor me" whinging about conspiracy theories and accusations that NZ cheat in every aspect of the game (apparently we cheat at the line-out now) while the Springboks are, of course, as pure as the driven snow.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

There was talks a while back for them joining the Magners League ...

http://www.scrum.com/southafrica/rugby/story/91994.html

There was also an article in the Western Mail at the time rumouring that SA and Italy would join. Italy has ... but is there space for SA ... pretty much No. Would it be cool? Yes ... practical ... No!

 

[smartcooky]

There was talks a while back for them joining the Magners League ...

Yes, but to be fair, that was at a time when

a. The Magners League had no post season play-offs
b. The talk of two teams from Italy joining the Magners was just that... talk.

The advent of semis and finals adds two weeks to the schedule, and reality of adding Aironi and Praetorians Roma has added another two weeks. No room left at the inn!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Yes, but to be fair, that was at a time when

a. The Magners League had no post season play-offs
b. The talk of two teams from Italy joining the Magners was just that... talk.

The advent of semis and finals adds two weeks to the schedule, and reality of adding Aironi and Praetorians Roma has added another two weeks. No room left at the inn!

Do you not know that there is always room in the NH inn!

 

[nickdnz]

I think a point everyone is missing, is that if they were to join a European club competition, they'd have to give up their CC due to the season, which a lot of SA's feel very strongly about. The only thing I could see them potantially happening, is SA have teams from the CC enter the Heineken Cup, but that would be the only exposure SA could have to other teams.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

*insert joke about SARU already having the Sarries up here - here*