Welsh Rugby Stuff

[Peat]

Yeah that is ridiculous really. I know Zebre aren't going to catch up with Dragons now in the table, but if this was the Aviva Prem, Dragons would be itching to start Faletau as soon as he got back off international duty, so as to avoid battling at the bottom of the table for relegation spot. Maybe this highlights why Rabo 12 would be better with some similar relegation system. It would force teams into fielding their best players pretty much week after week. Wish there were more teams.

James Haskell and Launchbury on the bench for Wasps. Wood's benching for Saints. That's against each other, not an easy game for either side. Leicester, Quins and Sarries put their players all straight back in but it doesn't automatically follow.

 

[j'nuh]

tbf, Wasps could argue that Haskell and Launchbury aren't so much better than their alternatives so as to disrupt the build-up they've had going on for the last three weeks, but I can't help but feel it's a mistake for Saints not to use Wood.

 

[Draggs]

Nice to see Darren and the lads doing their part for Welsh rugby and helping to get the Ospreys into the top four.
:lol:

@Dull, because Darren is incompetent.

 

[dullonien]

So, Beck has certainly recovered from his injury! Great first half from him. He could yet sneak himself onto the lions tour....

 

[SelimNiai]

Looking very dangerous. Helps that Foutali'i and Biggar are providing him with good ball to attack with.

 

[Draggs]

Os will miss Fotulilialaiaiai next year.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

So we are no closer to central contracts ...

revealed-new-welsh-rugby-board-not-even-properly-formed-yet-91466-33073217

 

[dullonien]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21983053

Some pretty crazy stuff in there imo.

Apparently North told the WRU after the Ireland game that the Scarlets basically wanted to sell him at the end of this season, probably to cash in on his standing in the game, and this is where the offer from Northamtpon has arisen from. That's shitty from the Scarlets, wanting to offload a 20y/o potential super-star. Most teams would love to have someone like North in their side, but the Scarlets can only think of the short-term pay day...

The WRU also reveal that the regions have apparently signed an agreement between themselves not to employ any centrally contracted, or part funded player. So the idea of centrally contracted players looks like a long-shot....

Some pretty damning stuff about the regions.......

 

[TRF_Cymro]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21983053

Some pretty crazy stuff in there imo.

Apparently North told the WRU after the Ireland game that the Scarlets basically wanted to sell him at the end of this season, probably to cash in on his standing in the game, and this is where the offer from Northamtpon has arisen from. That's shitty from the Scarlets, wanting to offload a 20y/o potential super-star. Most teams would love to have someone like North in their side, but the Scarlets can only think of the short-term pay day...

The WRU also reveal that the regions have apparently signed an agreement between themselves not to employ any centrally contracted, or part funded player. So the idea of centrally contracted players looks like a long-shot....

Some pretty damning stuff about the regions.......

To add further to that Dull, what the WRU sent me this morning.

WELSH RUGBY UNION STATEMENTThe Welsh Rugby Union wishes to clarify recent media reporting of a variety of current issues related to Welsh rugby. The WRU is anxious that the Welsh rugby public are made aware of the facts.

PRGB
The proposal to create a Professional Regional Game Board was developed during discussions following an independent report which concluded that the Regions needed to improve their business management and explore collaborative solutions.
A memorandum of understanding was signed by all four Regions and the WRU late in 2012 agreeing terms for the creation of the PRGB, its remit, who should be its members and its independent Chairman.
Early in 2013 the Regions sought to interpret the memorandum of understanding in a manner which was unacceptable to the WRU.
On Tuesday March 26, in a desire to move matters forward, the WRU presented a new proposal for a PRGB and awaits a response from the Regions.
It is important to note that the WRU seeks to help the regions create long term rugby and business sustainability. Demands for more money do not address the fundamental problems.
The WRU urges the regions to work together with the WRU to ensure that a PRGB can become operational in order to help address the issues raised in the PwC report.

JUDGEMENT DAY
The WRU organised, marketed and managed the event within its stated aim of helping the Regions achieve greater visibility and attract more and new supporters. This initiative was first proposed to the Regions by the WRU in 2007.
The WRU guarantees significant match fees to the Blues and Dragons as this day replaces their scheduled home fixtures.
The WRU has underwritten the event for four years with financial guarantees.
The WRU has also proposed further, major events involving the four Regions at the Millennium Stadium.
Judgement Day has proved a remarkable success with 36, 174 people attending to watch a celebration of regional rugby which has raised the profile of the elite game in Wales.

PLAYER TRANSFERS
The WRU accepts that some elite players will inevitably seek to leave Wales to achieve contractual incomes which are beyond the capacity of the current game in Wales.
The WRU has developed an elite pathway structure which nurtures talent through the WRU age grade structure, the WRU academies, the WRU funded regional age grade competitions, the Principality Premiership Division and its WRU resourced community game.
The WRU funds the Regions to secure the release of those elite contracted players with an annual sum in excess of £6million. This £6 million is part of the £15 million distributed to the Regions annually by the WRU.
The WRU has created a powerful elite playing and training environment through its National Centre of Excellence. The WRU urges the Regions to abandon the practice of selling Welsh qualified senior players for profit before their contracts are concluded.
The WRU further urges all four Regions to inform other regions and the WRU, as a first priority, when they are seeking to sell or release any elite Welsh qualified player.

GEORGE NORTH
The WRU is aware that the Scarlets opened discussions to transfer the player with clubs outside Wales and the UK late in 2012.
George North informed the WRU shortly after the Wales v Ireland RBS 6 Nations international on February 2 2013 that he had then been told of the transfer proposal.
George refused to consider France, but reluctantly conceded he would be prepared to move if the Scarlets wished.

CENTRAL CONTRACTS
The WRU first tabled an offer to discuss centrally contracting Welsh qualified regional players in August 2012 and has renewed that proposal. No meaningful response from the Regions has been received by the WRU.
The WRU revisited the issue of George North and agreed to consider assisting in a financial model to retain him in Wales with one of the four Regions.
The WRU has recently discovered that the Regions signed an agreement which precludes any of them playing an individual who is centrally contracted to the Union.


The WRU urges all four Regions to abandon this stance and return to the negotiating table.

Worryingly ... Gallagher looks like a real problem in this. However how much truth is the WRU saying is also a factor. Worryingly, this is not good for Welsh rugby.

 

[dullonien]

I'll wait for the regions response, but at the moment I'm edging on the WRU's side at the moment. They have been proposing plenty of different solutions which could help the regions hold onto their star players, but it looks like the regions are unwilling. This is most likely because they are afraid to lose more control to the WRU. Personally, I have more faith in the WRU at the moment than the regional boards, so would have no problem with them taking more control of what is a complete mess that the regions themselves have gotten themselves into.

I have never liked Gallagher. During his time at the Scarlets, they effectively went bankrupt, so what place does he have overseeing the regions? This threat from him of the regions leaving the Pro12 to play with the English clubs is frankly pathetic, as if those English clubs would want to have anything to do with the amateurs involved with the regions. How far do the regions think they could get without the money from the WRU anyway?

I can understand the WRU's reluctance to just hand the regions more money at the moment. Because they would probably **** it away and come back crying in a couple of years about how they deserve more. To be fair, the WRU have worked hard in recent years to turn their money troubles around, and are now run very professionally (from a money stand-point at least). They are also delivering results. The same cannot be said of the regions.

Edit. Regarding North, the Scarlets are already making a hefty profit on him I imagine from the £1.5 million + they receive as compensation for players release from the WRU. The regions get over £6 million from the WRU for players' release, split equally. This means the Scarlets receive over £1.5 million. They essentially have 5 players unavailable to them when Wales play (Ken Owens, Shingler, Jon Davies, Scott Williams and North), which equates to £300,000 a player, a damn sight more I imagine than their wages. The Dragons are currently receiving £750,000 a year for both Lydiate and Faletau, and still couldn't afford to keep Lydiate. People keep harping on about the regions paying the Welsh players wages, but this isn't really the case, because in most cases the compensation they receive more than pays those players wages. If they are actively trying to offload these players to make even more money then maybe the WRU should reduce the amount of compensation their receive. I can understand the Blues and Dragons not being able to hold onto Roberts and Lydiate, but the Scarlets actively trying to sell North (behind his back to boot) isn't on imo.

Further edit: f**k me, Gallagher obviously hates the WRU, and is completely sceptical about any relationship. How can the main spokesperson for the regions have such a poor relationship with the WRU? At least Lewis comes across to the public as wanting to make something work, Gallagher obviously doesn't!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Regions Statement:

The following statement is issued by Regional Rugby Wales on behalf of the four Welsh regions; the Scarlets, Ospreys, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues in response to the comments made by the WRU earlier today (Sunday 31st March 2013).

The four Welsh regions are united in expressing how staggered and bitterly disappointed they all are with the nature, intent and content of the public statement made by the WRU this morning on a number of issues affecting Welsh rugby.As the governing body that should lead and set the standards and platform for the profile of the game in Wales, the regions are surprised at the WRU's seemingly defensive reaction to some of the media reporting particularly given the success of yesterday's Welsh derby double-header.

As a celebration of regional rugby that attracted close to 37,000 supporters of our game, it was a clear example of the benefits of a partnership approach between the four regions to create fresh opportunities to promote the regional game in Wales and enjoyed by both regional players and spectators.
There are a number of significant comments made within the WRU statement, that the four regions will now need to consider very seriously and with the appropriate amount of time and discussion before making a full and united response.
The Professional Regional Game Board (PRGB ) was proposed to ensure that Welsh rugby had a joint collaborative body, with an independent chairman, with the remit and authority to find solutions for some of the issues affecting Welsh rugby.
Had the PRGB been implemented as originally agreed by the WRU, it would be addressing the exact issues that it has now raised in its statement including the important objective of how best to retain Welsh players like George North.

The four regions and WRU signed and agreed a Memorandum of Understanding in November 2012 that outlined the creation of the PRGB. On the basis of this agreement, the PRGB met once on December 17th 2012.
The Regions have not changed or altered in any way their interpretation, understanding, intent or commitment to the agreements reached since the first proposals were made in May 2012.

The only queries raised subsequently, which have affected the establishment of the PRGB and the memorandum of understand signed by all five parties, have been made by the WRU which has in turn delayed the process.

The four Welsh regions have been committed and open in providing full and detailed information for the PwC report and its recommendations and have been consistent in their aims to work in partnership for successful establishment of the PRGB.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Having not read the thread at all:

I think there are too many teams catering for such a small population.
If you work it out, each English team has almost 6 times the population to gather income from than each Welsh region does.

Sorry if this has been brought up before.

 

[j'nuh]

Edit. Regarding North, the Scarlets are already making a hefty profit on him I imagine from the £1.5 million + they receive as compensation for players release from the WRU. The regions get over £6 million from the WRU for players' release, split equally. This means the Scarlets receive over £1.5 million. They essentially have 5 players unavailable to them when Wales play (Ken Owens, Shingler, Jon Davies, Scott Williams and North), which equates to £300,000 a player, a damn sight more I imagine than their wages. The Dragons are currently receiving £750,000 a year for both Lydiate and Faletau, and still couldn't afford to keep Lydiate. People keep harping on about the regions paying the Welsh players wages, but this isn't really the case, because in most cases the compensation they receive more than pays those players wages. If they are actively trying to offload these players to make even more money then maybe the WRU should reduce the amount of compensation their receive. I can understand the Blues and Dragons not being able to hold onto Roberts and Lydiate, but the Scarlets actively trying to sell North (behind his back to boot) isn't on imo.

If all is true, talk about biting the hand that feeds. Is there anything that binds the WRU to handing out this money?

If I were in charge of the WRU, I would be tempted to give the regions an ultimatum: agree to central contracts, or lose £6m.

Ospreys manage to pull together such a great squad considering the money is shared evenly. It makes you raise your eyebrow at the other regions...

 

[dullonien]

Who the hell are we meant to believe? Someone is telling some big lies here, and I feel it's come the time that we as paying fans deserve the truth. Who's fault is it that PRGB hasn't been meeting? The WRU state that the regions have back-tracked and wanted changes made to the agreement, the regions state that they are happy to continue but the WRU are stalling. The WRU claim to have put forward a number of central contract, or part funded proposals forward with regards to keeping star players in Wales, the regions seem to disagree. I'm sick of the bickering, and I question whether the two parties can realistically sort this petty squabble out before the regional game is too far gone to be saved.

As I said previously I'm edging towards the side of the WRU, because I trust them slightly more than I do the regions (and especially Gallagher) at the moment. Even my sister's boyfriend, a die-hard Llanelli fan from Llanelli described Gallagher as a crook!

I fully believe that the WRU need to release more money to the regions. However I feel that without change that would be like pouring it into a black hole, because the regions are simply broken. Looking at the numbers, the four regions have a self-imposed 3.5 million salary cap for their squads (although I highly doubt the Dragons are anywhere near that mark), which equals a theoretical maximum of £14 million for the four regions (probably lower, as the O's easily have the most expensive squad, yet should still be a max of 3.5 mill), yet the WRU gives the regions £15 million a year. The WRU basically entirely funds all four regional squads, including coaches I'd dare say (after all, none of the coaches should be on big bucks considering they are all 'jobs for the boys'). If the regions still can't survive, then I'm not really sure what else can be done. Where does that gate money go (even if crowds are poor)? Where does the TV revenue go, the advertising revenue, the money from merchandise? If this were an actual business, the regions wouldn't have lasted 6 weeks!

I also understood that it was the WRU who organised, promoted and funded the Millenium double header on the weekend, and have agreed to fund it for the next few years. In the response from the regions posted by Cymro, Gallagher is taking all the credit about how the four regions working together provided something positive. Again, who are we to believe?

Edit. The 3.5 million salary cap is for Heineken and Amlin squads only, but they include all the big players on the big wages. After that you are left with essentially fringe players who are on relatively low wages. I still think my point stands about where exactly the regions are spending their money. Well we know the Cardiff Blues blew a whole load of money over the last few seasons by paying for two stadiums at the same time, who thought that would be a clever thing to do?

 

[Bluemoon]

Western Fail selling papers or?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2013/04/01/wru-s-late-bid-to-broker-deal-between-george-north-and-cardiff-blues-91466-33095621/

Edit.

What seems to be the contentious issue here is that the regions want central contracts but there is no way making a joint plan. The WRU seem to want to maintain the control here by offering whimsical, poor deals for potential central contracts for a few token players, which the regions are rejecting.

Both parties in the wrong with all of the public leakage. The WRU need to work more jointly and they both need to stop going public.

I don't trust either parties, or the sources which all of these "facts" are coming from.

 

[dullonien]

The Ospreys might be a better fit. They could try him at outside centre as well. The thought of Beck supplying him ball =

 

[ratsapprentice]

Why would the Scarlets want North to go to one of their competitors?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Why would the Scarlets want North to go to one of their competitors?

Why would the WRU want North moving to play in England?

 

[Bluemoon]

Why would the Scarlets want North to go to one of their competitors?

Well ideally no. They don't want to lose him full stop. But they cannot afford his contract and the idea of a massive transfer fee has to be appealing. The Cardiff Blues have a little spare cash thanks to Jamie Roberts leaving and they have a strange link with the WRU. For example, the central contract for Iestyn Harris was extremely odd.

With respect Dull, the Scarlets are his best fit. He'd fit in nicely at any of the regions .

 

[ratsapprentice]

Why would the WRU want North moving to play in England?

The WRU aren't the Scarlets.

If the WRU want to keep him in Wales they should keep him at the Scarlets.
I don't see how they can afford to keep him in one region but not another...?