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New to URC, why are the Welsh teams struggling?

Mallow said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Six Nations 2024: Wales coach Warren Gatland casts doubts over regional reset

Warren Gatland says Welsh rugby sometimes feels like a "sinking ship" and is not 100% convinced a much-needed regional reset will happen.
www.bbc.co.uk

Didn't want to start another thread on this, so I figured this is the best place.

I agree with Gatland on this. We all know changes are needed, but it's pretty clear it's not really happening.
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Shambolic that he would say this, representing the WRU. He's becoming part of the problem rather than supporting the solutions.
 
Welsh Exile said:
He knows he's looking at 3 back to back wooden spoons so getting his excuses in early. lol
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Oh 100%, the scapegoating is painfully obvious. The WRU need a change of culture and a more positive way forward and I'm becoming more and more convinced Gatland isn't the man to do that.
 
Bluemoon said:
Oh 100%, the scapegoating is painfully obvious. The WRU need a change of culture and a more positive way forward and I'm becoming more and more convinced Gatland isn't the man to do that.
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Gatland might not be, but it's interesting that when someone dares to throw this topic up, people go on the offensive - Not aimed at you, but in general. There's no doubt from me the WRU are not up to the task and haven't been for a long time. Difficult choices need to be made and yes, some clubs and fans won't like it, but the current direction is just pretending to make changes and nothing really happens. Time and time again, they see the train coming but do nothing till the last second. It's pathetic.

I can see welsh rugby fading out with a whimper if not.
 
Bluemoon said:
Oh 100%, the scapegoating is painfully obvious. The WRU need a change of culture and a more positive way forward and I'm becoming more and more convinced Gatland isn't the man to do that.
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Aren't you caught in an England situation with Gats. It comes down to money, the contract and who is a realistic replacement.
 
Saintjay said:
Aren't you caught in an England situation with Gats. It comes down to money, the contract and who is a realistic replacement.
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Yep. My only hope is there's a break clause halfway through his contract that says we can get rid of he gets back to back wooden spoons or something but I doubt it. Goes without saying I hope he smashes it but to be honest I think he's past his sell by date a bit like Mourinho. Was an elite manager but now the game has moved on.
 
ManxMan said:
Hi All, I am new to Rugby Union + the URC. I am a NFL fan, however I am struggling with the time zones and after watching the games for years into the early hours of Monday morning it is killing me, also after watching the rugby World Cup I am hooked. I am from the Isle of Man, so I can basically I can support any team, however following a team I can one day go and watch is appealing. The Welsh provinces make sense. However my question is why are they struggling so much. Rugby Union is the National sport of Wales and with so much history I would expect them to be good year on year. So my question why are they seemingly so poor.
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I don't have an answer to your question, but I just wanted to welcome you to the board. So you're from the Isle of Man, home of the famous motorcycle race. I'd like to see that in person someday.
 
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Mallow said:
Gatland might not be, but it's interesting that when someone dares to throw this topic up, people go on the offensive - Not aimed at you, but in general. There's no doubt from me the WRU are not up to the task and haven't been for a long time. Difficult choices need to be made and yes, some clubs and fans won't like it, but the current direction is just pretending to make changes and nothing really happens. Time and time again, they see the train coming but do nothing till the last second. It's pathetic.

I can see welsh rugby fading out with a whimper if not.
Click to expand...
Im not saying things don't need to change, they obviously do and are. The problem here is that these comments are blaming the pro clubs in a context where the WRU are a huge part of the problem. At a basic level, the Head Coach of the WRU is creating even more friction between the WRU and the clubs at a time where we need a to find a joined up way forward with a joint vision. This isn't about not acknowledging there needs to be change, it's acknowledging the the culture between all the organisations needs to change, and Gats comments are tone deaf to that.
 
Leonormous Boozer said:
No beef with the money spinner but could they have chosen a worse date? Like with the URC final and top 14 semis on the same day it'll realistically be the 4th most important match of the day.
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Indeed.

If the Welsh are going to argue the Welsh public are apathetic to the Magners League/RaboPro12/GuinnessPro12/GuinnessPro14/URC then look no further than officials across the game in Wales that have been undermining it for decades.
 
"Sam Warburton: WRU must invest in elite game not grassroots, says ex-Wales captain"

www.bbc.co.uk

Sam Warburton: WRU must invest in elite game not grassroots, says ex-Wales captain

Former Wales captain Sam Warburton says the Welsh Rugby Union should not prioritise spending on grassroots to solve the problems of Welsh rugby.
www.bbc.co.uk

He quotes the football Premier league as an example, but I don't think that works. In order to keep the football prem happy, they require obscene amounts of money and resources which is not something rugby has. Plus, there's plenty of issues with football at the top just being ignored

On top of that, you look at the state of the national teams in football... it's not exactly flourishing as a result of the top heavy system, is it?
 
Mallow said:
"Sam Warburton: WRU must invest in elite game not grassroots, says ex-Wales captain"

www.bbc.co.uk

Sam Warburton: WRU must invest in elite game not grassroots, says ex-Wales captain

Former Wales captain Sam Warburton says the Welsh Rugby Union should not prioritise spending on grassroots to solve the problems of Welsh rugby.
www.bbc.co.uk

He quotes the football Premier league as an example, but I don't think that works. In order to keep the football prem happy, they require obscene amounts of money and resources which is not something rugby has. Plus, there's plenty of issues with football at the top just being ignored

On top of that, you look at the state of the national teams in football... it's not exactly flourishing as a result of the top heavy system, is it?
Click to expand...
The football analogy probably wasn't the best given how funding works in football. He was demonstrating that you need competitive clubs to increase interest in the sport.

But he's not wrong overall. I think the reasons grassroots rugby is struggling in certain areas of Wales is due to complex factors, such as population change, economic changes, opportunity for other sports and interests increasing, poorer areas of Wales no longer having the rugby club at its heart etc. Money for the small club is probably low down in that list, other than some of the small clubs are dying out due to lack of interest, but I imagine if you looked in the areas where they are you'd see a pattern.

As I said in another post, the lack of investment at the pro level (and I don't just mean wages) is obvious and I do agree with him there. You need competitive teams to drum up interest at grassroots level imo. Remember the WRU is governed by those grassroots clubs and the pro clubs appear to be suffering for it.
 
Mallow said:
"Sam Warburton: WRU must invest in elite game not grassroots, says ex-Wales captain"

www.bbc.co.uk

Sam Warburton: WRU must invest in elite game not grassroots, says ex-Wales captain

Former Wales captain Sam Warburton says the Welsh Rugby Union should not prioritise spending on grassroots to solve the problems of Welsh rugby.
www.bbc.co.uk

He quotes the football Premier league as an example, but I don't think that works. In order to keep the football prem happy, they require obscene amounts of money and resources which is not something rugby has. Plus, there's plenty of issues with football at the top just being ignored

On top of that, you look at the state of the national teams in football... it's not exactly flourishing as a result of the top heavy system, is it?
Click to expand...
It's a tough one. Without funding at grass roots the game dies. How ever the WRU gets most money from Wales match day revenue. A poor national team and regions loses peoples interests and attendances suffer so funding decreases.

I think there's a lot to say about the academy structure that dicates that if your not in one by a certain age then that's it. I think Wales needs to get smarter about talent identification. Looking past the academy structure and at Colts level teams etc. Players get dumped out of academies rather quickly. When even a year or so later they might be very good, just not the nailed on holy grail everyone's looking for there and then.

Listening to a pod cast today, and there was a feeling talent is getting missed and retention of players after 16yo to still play rugby in Wales is a problem.
 
I remember a podcast a few years ago where they had some rugby coach on saying we lose players from around 11 to 16 and they never come back. The lack of interest, the commitment for the reward just isn't there. I don't blame them tbh. I mean, look at the size you need to be to play pro rugby. It's gotten to the point where they must live in a gym and have almost no social life.

As for the pro game, I think in the UK it's probably on the decline in some aspects and we probably need a massive rethink on going forward.
 
Changes to work patterns and family life, as well as declining numbers of younger people, have all had an impact on playing numbers throughout Wales. (Keep in mind that Wales has among the oldest average age profiles anywhere in the UK).
 
Saintjay said:
It's a tough one. Without funding at grass roots the game dies. How ever the WRU gets most money from Wales match day revenue. A poor national team and regions loses peoples interests and attendances suffer so funding decreases.

I think there's a lot to say about the academy structure that dicates that if your not in one by a certain age then that's it. I think Wales needs to get smarter about talent identification. Looking past the academy structure and at Colts level teams etc. Players get dumped out of academies rather quickly. When even a year or so later they might be very good, just not the nailed on holy grail everyone's looking for there and then.

Listening to a pod cast today, and there was a feeling talent is getting missed and retention of players after 16yo to still play rugby in Wales is a problem.
Click to expand...
I've always thought the UK academy style of recruitment was flawed - it's also very 'what school did you go to' and 'which club do you play for'

We don't have it in NZ and have picked up late-blooming talent and seem to be ok at the elite game

We have an immense grass-roots network

Maybe Warburton is talking ********?
 
Sadly the WRU are soing their utmost to strangle the game in Wales.

Rugby is dying, clubs are going under, junior teams reducing, adult teams reducing, and because of it interest is reducing.

Instead of being strong, lead the way and rejuvenate the love for the sport, they just pander to a small group activist types who bang on about safety.

If you want to be 99% safe play ******* tiddly winks.

Rugby is a gladiatorial sport, its masculine, and it develops relationships like no other. Most clubs have been so feminised I barely recognise them.

I was at a local game in Cardiff before Xmas, Blaina were down and I swear to God the game got stopped 20 odd minutes in to address the language of the Blaina players.

I genuinely think if rugby wants to survive the WRU it has to be unashamedly brutal, like the UFC! The UFC has taken over Rugbys global market with ease, and governing bodies see it and pander further into making rugby less rugby.

there are other issues obviously, population demographic change is bringing a lot of Manchester United fans to south Wales, local communities have changed, the way we communicate, and the big cost increase to everything, but I genuinely think if the WRU would just...

Anyway, point in case, the WRU are running giddy camps in Aptil, Local rugby clubs... my daughter is attending, and she enjoys playing a bit. My partner was chatting with the people who run it, and they informed her if the kid didnt like rugby, they are offering mindfulness, and trauma informed games as alternatives. A RUGBY CAMP OFFERING NOT TO PLAY RUGBY!!!!
 
Just had a look at the run in...

Its looming more and more likely that the bottom 3 teams will be Welsh regions...

Sharks and lions have a host of winnable home games, so will definately climb.

Cardiff and scarlet go to SA and have tough home games, dragons will lose every game left.

The only saving grace may be Zebre, with Scarlets having to travel to Italy, they may nick 2 wins to finish 13th.

Sad times
 
Saintjay said:
It's a tough one. Without funding at grass roots the game dies. How ever the WRU gets most money from Wales match day revenue. A poor national team and regions loses peoples interests and attendances suffer so funding decreases.

I think there's a lot to say about the academy structure that dicates that if your not in one by a certain age then that's it. I think Wales needs to get smarter about talent identification. Looking past the academy structure and at Colts level teams etc. Players get dumped out of academies rather quickly. When even a year or so later they might be very good, just not the nailed on holy grail everyone's looking for there and then.

Listening to a pod cast today, and there was a feeling talent is getting missed and retention of players after 16yo to still play rugby in Wales is a problem.
Click to expand...
Maybe a solution

www.walesonline.co.uk

Wales star says two regions should drop down into Welsh rugby's new league

Under the proposal, two regions would join the WRU's new Elite Domestic Competition
www.walesonline.co.uk

Share funding to two teams.
Swansea Bay Scarlets, playing at Llanelli
Cardiff Dragons at CAP
 

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