Warm Up Match 4: Highlanders v British & Irish Lions (Dunedin)

[Leonormous Boozer]

Don't remember 5 turnovers to be honest but I'm generally of the opinion that turnovers aren't usually the ball carriers fault

I read it in an article somewhere, I couldn't tell you exactly when and where but I do remember him making some very silly errors!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I read it in an article somewhere, I couldn't tell you exactly when and where but I do remember him making some very silly errors!

ESPN stats for the match say 5 turnovers as well.
http://www.espn.com.au/rugby/playerstats?gameId=290597&league=268565

Did you write this Valley Commando? http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/lions-xv-warren-gatland-should-13185207

 

[ncurd]

I prefer the 7 players who definitely won't make the tests article with zero welshman.

God I hate we are consider Te'o as a starting option.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I read it in an article somewhere, I couldn't tell you exactly when and where but I do remember him making some very silly errors!

Fair, I certainly don't think he was perfect. Would one have been the pass to ground when the offside defender ran straight through his passing line? Couldn't believe HL got away with that

 

[MikeTheNative]

Fair, I certainly don't think he was perfect. Would one have been the pass to ground when the offside defender ran straight through his passing line? Couldn't believe HL got away with that

I thought that was an offside too and surprised the ref didn't ping it.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Fair, I certainly don't think he was perfect. Would one have been the pass to ground when the offside defender ran straight through his passing line? Couldn't believe HL got away with that

The Highlanders player was retreating, and there were no Lions players near where the pass went, so hard to say the player was offside when he didn't influence play at all. I think, if anything, Webb tried to throw the ball at the Highlanders player to milk a penalty and missed.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

The Highlanders player was retreating, and there were no Lions players near where the pass went, so hard to say the player was offside when he didn't influence play at all. I think, if anything, Webb tried to throw the ball at the Highlanders player to milk a penalty and missed.

Agreed, I think that's exactly what happened. He should've just distributed for his backs rather than trying to milk the penalty.

 

[Immenso]

From a few pages back. I think many of the kiwi fans are deluding themselves over whether a SR team would take Farrell over local options.

Firstly, notice how rubbish Mou'uga and Sopoaga were in their respective tour matches.

Secondly. Piers Francis.

Dont claim to be an expert on Farrell. But because NZs 4th and 5th choice players are currently so much better than our Sanzar partners equivalent, it can be deceiving. When the level of intensity steps up. And when they have to play a more senior role in these higher intensity matches you learn a bit more.

Eg Mou'uga looked a million bucks for the Baabaas last November among quality peers and opponents. But looked awful v the Lions in a match of test match-like level of intensity.

 

[smartcooky]

From a few pages back. I think many of the kiwi fans are deluding themselves over whether a SR team would take Farrell over local options.

Firstly, notice how rubbish Mou'uga and Sopoaga were in their respective tour matches.

Secondly. Piers Francis.

Dont claim to be an expert on Farrell. But because NZs 4th and 5th choice players are currently so much better than our Sanzar partners equivalent, it can be deceiving. When the level of intensity steps up. And when they have to play a more senior role in these higher intensity matches you learn a bit more.

Eg Mou'uga looked a million bucks for the Baabaas last November among quality peers and opponents. But looked awful v the Lions in a match of test match-like level of intensity.

Of course, like everyone else, on the park, Mo'unga is a human being, and can have an "off" day just liek anyone else. Every player doesn't play perfectly in every match... I recall DC having a number of poor games in his career..

 

[GoTheNaki]

From a few pages back. I think many of the kiwi fans are deluding themselves over whether a SR team would take Farrell over local options.

Firstly, notice how rubbish Mou'uga and Sopoaga were in their respective tour matches.

Secondly. Piers Francis.

Dont claim to be an expert on Farrell. But because NZs 4th and 5th choice players are currently so much better than our Sanzar partners equivalent, it can be deceiving. When the level of intensity steps up. And when they have to play a more senior role in these higher intensity matches you learn a bit more.

Eg Mou'uga looked a million bucks for the Baabaas last November among quality peers and opponents. But looked awful v the Lions in a match of test match-like level of intensity.

Mo'unga hasnt had a GREAT season like he did last year. He has turned into this passive thing over the last month, who hardly runs to the line or any of the things that would have people choosing him over Farrell. Sopoaga has also been injured a lot of the season, which is why people were a bit teasy about him making the ABs over McKenzie. No-one said Piers Francis is better than Farrell, but the Blues are as always... Waiting for a #10. I would suggest having a look at Steven Perofeta, he had the same hype as Jordie Barrett, but obviously Tana didnt play him much this season, the kid had only just come back from u20s Junior ABs, played for Taranaki, then signed for the Blues. He is 21 in March. And honestly, i wouldnt sign Farrell to take minutes off of that kid.

 

[GoTheNaki]

If i had to compare Farrell to someone in the NZ game... It would be Marty Banks.

 

[Immenso]

Mo'unga hasnt had a GREAT season like he did last year. He has turned into this passive thing over the last month, who hardly runs to the line or any of the things that would have people choosing him over Farrell. Sopoaga has also been injured a lot of the season, which is why people were a bit teasy about him making the ABs over McKenzie. No-one said Piers Francis is better than Farrell, but the Blues are as always... Waiting for a #10. I would suggest having a look at Steven Perofeta, he had the same hype as Jordie Barrett, but obviously Tana didnt play him much this season, the kid had only just come back from u20s Junior ABs, played for Taranaki, then signed for the Blues. He is 21 in March. And honestly, i wouldnt sign Farrell to take minutes off of that kid.

So, the answer to the original question, should have been I wouldn't sign a foreigner to take minutes off an nz kid. Unless he's Caucau level of wow.

Not, nz 10s are all better than Farrell.

And the Piers Francis reference is; a player not of Farrell standard (apparently) has managed to work his way into a NZ super starting spot.

 

[GoTheNaki]

So, the answer to the original question, should have been I wouldn't sign a foreigner to take minutes off an nz kid. Unless he's Caucau level of wow.

Not, nz 10s are all better than Farrell.

And the Piers Francis reference is; a player not of Farrell standard (apparently) has managed to work his way into a NZ super starting spot.

Do you watch the Blues franchise at all?

Piers Francis is starting above Ihaia West, is he better than West? He is a more consistant player than West. Does Umaga like West? Would you start a 20 year old rookie at 10? One of the most pivotal positions in the game. I would suggest that its going to be Perofeta's jersey. Would i give Farrell minutes over this "nz kid"? No. This "nz kid" was the next hottest property straight after the Barrett kid, who, because of injuries, was allowed to start for the Hurricanes. And now he's an All Black.

Anyway, i wasnt the one who said such a thing. Because that would be stupid. Probably a casual, rose-tinted glasses, kiwi rugby fan.

I think the criteria here for a starting 10 is different to the NH anyway tbh. If you kick real good, and pass alright. You have a chance in the NH. 10 is so much different here. They are superstars, 95% of the time they are the best, or they are in the top3 players on your team.

 

[Immenso]

Do you watch the Blues franchise at all?

Piers Francis is starting above Ihaia West, is he better than West? He is a more consistant player than West. Does Umaga like West? Would you start a 20 year old rookie at 10? One of the most pivotal positions in the game. I would suggest that its going to be Perofeta's jersey. Would i give Farrell minutes over this "nz kid"? No. This "nz kid" was the next hottest property straight after the Barrett kid, who, because of injuries, was allowed to start for the Hurricanes. And now he's an All Black.

Anyway, i wasnt the one who said such a thing. Because that would be stupid. Probably a casual, rose-tinted glasses, kiwi rugby fan.

I think the criteria here for a starting 10 is different to the NH anyway tbh. If you kick real good, and pass alright. You have a chance in the NH. 10 is so much different here. They are superstars, 95% of the time they are the best, or they are in the top3 players on your team.

Mou'uga is the 10th best player on his team if full strength . Maybe 11th with the rate Goodhue has progressed. IMO

This is nonsense.

The Blues 10 is often their worst.

Most of the few times I have watched Farrell it is in a test match. Half the time I have watched Mou'uga or Sopoaga etc it's in a 50 point thrashing v the equivalent of Force, Cheetahs etc

In Mou'uga's case, the only time I have seen him in a test level game he choked.

I doubt you guys are comparing apples with apples.

Doesn't mean Mou'uga or Sopoaga (who had a flawless test debut) are crap. Just means plenty on here are probably overeating NZs depth.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Mo'unga hasnt had a GREAT season like he did last year. He has turned into this passive thing over the last month, who hardly runs to the line or any of the things that would have people choosing him over Farrell.

Gonna have to disagree with you here. He has had an even better season than last season, he has been excellent. Clearly the form 10 of the comp IMO (yes ahead of Barrett... he has been extraordinary at times, but has faded a bit. Mo'unga has been superb virtually every time he's been on the field. Banks has been mister consistent and solidity, but Mo'unga has been a class above.)
He certainly hasn't turned into a 'passive thing' who 'hardly runs to the line'. Despite missing 5 games early on due to injury, he has literally made the same amount of line-breaks as Barrett and has broken over twice as many tackles. He also has superior kicking and defensive stats.
His performances vs the Cheetahs, Bulls and Chiefs were absolutely sublime. Along with Barrett vs the Blues and Barrett vs the Brumbies, I think those are the best fly half performances of the season. But Mounga has been at that high level in almost every game he's played, which hasn't been the case for any of the other 10s IMO.

I would suggest having a look at Steven Perofeta, he had the same hype as Jordie Barrett, but obviously Tana didnt play him much this season, the kid had only just come back from u20s Junior ABs, played for Taranaki, then signed for the Blues.

Yes Perofeta is a great prospect! The reason he didn't get much game time for the Blues isn't because Tana didn't play him, but because he was injured all season. Otherwise I'm sure he would've got plenty of game time and may well have made that 10 jersey his own by now. He only just came back from his injury a couple weeks ago, which is why the Reds and Lions games were his first 2 games for the Blues.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Half the time I have watched Mou'uga or Sopoaga etc it's in a 50 point thrashing v the equivalent of Force, Cheetahs etc

I highly suggest you watch more of them then, especially Mo'unga. You can't really make these claims when you clearly haven't seen the players enough.

In Mou'uga's case, the only time I have seen him in a test level game he choked.

Did you watch the Crusaders vs Chiefs game in Suva? That Lions game was the 1st time I've seen him be sub-par in a big match. He's usually well up for the occasion, he has a super cool temperament. The provincial championship final last year is a prime example. He completely owned that match.

 

[Immenso]

I highly suggest you watch more of them then, especially Mo'unga. You can't really make these claims when you clearly haven't seen the players enough.

Did you watch the Crusaders vs Chiefs game in Suva? That Lions game was the 1st time I've seen him be sub-par in a big match. He's usually well up for the occasion, he has a super cool temperament. The provincial championship final last year is a prime example. He completely owned that match.

I rate Mou'uga. Very highly.

I just find the conversation bizarre. We basically have a head to head situation happening right now. Farrell on one side, NZ SR 10s on the other over consecutive weeks.

Farrell has been quite impressive, each NZ 10 has been pretty hopeless.

There's historically almost always 1 of the NZ SR teams with a weakness at 10. Blues for the last 5 years, Canes during the Gopperth years.

The Crusaders used to hoard some of them though.

 

[Immenso]

Perofeta is getting pumped up on very little evidence.

It seems to be word of mouth, though, out of Auckland so at least that is encouraging. Probably based on opinions inside the camp or people watching club rugby. Rather than from internet fans hoping for an end to the Blues first-five woes.

I'm surprised that a guy apparently so good could not get passed a player as mediocre as TJ Vaa in the U20s last year. So at this point I'm sceptical of the hype.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I rate Mou'uga. Very highly.

I just find the conversation bizarre. We basically have a head to head situation happening right now. Farrell on one side, NZ SR 10s on the other over consecutive weeks.

Farrell has been quite impressive, each NZ 10 has been pretty hopeless.

There's historically almost always 1 of the NZ SR teams with a weakness at 10. Blues for the last 5 years, Canes during the Gopperth years.

The Crusaders used to hoard some of them though.

Yea Barrett is the 1st star 10 the Canes have had, and the Blues haven't had one since Carlos. The Saders have always had one, and the Landers and Chiefs have generally been pretty well off.
As for the Farrell thing, wasn't the original question whether or not any of the Super Rugby franchises would prefer him to there current 10s? I think the simple answer is the Blues would, the rest wouldn't.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Gonna have to disagree with you here. He has had an even better season than last season, he has been excellent. Clearly the form 10 of the comp IMO (yes ahead of Barrett... he has been extraordinary at times, but has faded a bit. Mo'unga has been superb virtually every time he's been on the field. Banks has been mister consistent and solidity, but Mo'unga has been a class above.)
He certainly hasn't turned into a 'passive thing' who 'hardly runs to the line'. Despite missing 5 games early on due to injury, he has literally made the same amount of line-breaks as Barrett and has broken over twice as many tackles. He also has superior kicking and defensive stats.
His performances vs the Cheetahs, Bulls and Chiefs were absolutely sublime. Along with Barrett vs the Blues and Barrett vs the Brumbies, I think those are the best fly half performances of the season. But Mounga has been at that high level in almost every game he's played, which hasn't been the case for any of the other 10s IMO.
Yes Perofeta is a great prospect! The reason he didn't get much game time for the Blues isn't because Tana didn't play him, but because he was injured all season. Otherwise I'm sure he would've got plenty of game time and may well have made that 10 jersey his own by now. He only just came back from his injury a couple weeks ago, which is why the Reds and Lions games were his first 2 games for the Blues.

Well then surely he makes the ABs over Sopoaga? Right? It was actually a passing comment from Jeff Wilson et al, that Mo'unga had gone off the boil recently. But no-one has even mentioned Mo'unga being unlucky? His team leads the comp too. I mean, thats if i go by your suggestion with him vs Beauden.

Mou'uga is the 10th best player on his team if full strength . Maybe 11th with the rate Goodhue has progressed. IMO

This is nonsense.

The Blues 10 is often their worst.

Most of the few times I have watched Farrell it is in a test match. Half the time I have watched Mou'uga or Sopoaga etc it's in a 50 point thrashing v the equivalent of Force, Cheetahs etc

In Mou'uga's case, the only time I have seen him in a test level game he choked.

I doubt you guys are comparing apples with apples.

Doesn't mean Mou'uga or Sopoaga (who had a flawless test debut) are crap. Just means plenty on here are probably overeating NZs depth.

10th or 11th............. Alrighty then.

I rate Mou'uga. Very highly.

I just find the conversation bizarre. We basically have a head to head situation happening right now. Farrell on one side, NZ SR 10s on the other over consecutive weeks.

Farrell has been quite impressive, each NZ 10 has been pretty hopeless.

There's historically almost always 1 of the NZ SR teams with a weakness at 10. Blues for the last 5 years, Canes during the Gopperth years.

The Crusaders used to hoard some of them though.

Hang on, you rate Mo'unga "very highly", but not in the top10 starting players on his own team? Riiiiight.... And what? Farrell been impressive? When? Has he? Was this before this tour? Alright, ok, i wont be that unfair, his goal kicking has been good. Ok. The Blues 10s both did more than the Lions 10s, and who were those again? Come on..

As for the TJ Vaa comment. Didnt Perofeta start in the vital games? How many 20 year old rookies have played the Lions team so far? And started?