War in the Middle East?

[el_tk]

Originally posted by DonBilly@Jul 20 2006, 02:32 PM
They're doing a very nice work for Hezbollah recruiters. They're creating their future nightmares.

That's exactly it. every Hezbollah member or Lebanese civilian killed will create mroe terrorists for Israel to deal with in the future.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Originally posted by wigan_rlfc@Jul 20 2006, 02:17 PM
If Uncle Sam's full name wasn't Uncle Samuel Goldstein then the world wouldn't be sitting back and let these disgraceful acts by Isreal happen. Where is the justice in attacking another nation just because yopu don't like a minority of the people that live there. Have Isreal even declared war on Lebanon? If not then surely they are breaching numerous international laws.

And Lebanon aren't?

 

[Ripper]

Originally posted by wigan_rlfc@Jul 21 2006, 01:25 AM
I have just come up with a wacky theory. The Americans and Zionists carry out the so-called 9/11 attacks which gives them an opportunity to invade Afghanistan which provides training and also another excuse to invade Iraq, the strongest Arab country in the Middle-East, overthrow its government and throw the country into turmoil. This then gives Isreal a chance to attack other Arab nations who, becasue Saddam has gone, now have no real military power and are very unlikely to stop the Jewish juggernaut. Syria maybe a bit difficult for Isreal to conquer but America has already said a couple of years ago that it plans to invade Syria.

Die.

Maybe they could bomb your house on the way to bombing the UN.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by St Helens RLFC@Jul 14 2006, 08:32 AM
It seems only a matter of seconds. I'm sure SANZAR will blame the USA, but seriously... WW3, if there is one, will stem from down that way.

It's all kicking off.

Mate, I'm an international relations major... why on earth would you think I'd make an irrational claim like that?

Personally I think the Israeli's are going over the top and damaging any credibility they have in their claims that they are against terrorism with every civilian that dies as a result of their raids... They're about as tactful as the arabs at the moment, and in a world where realist thought dominates IR, I just think that it's all very unwise considering the negative effects it will have on their security in the region...

As for WW3. Well, let's not be too alarmist just yet aye Dan? There'd have to be a major alliance form on several fronts, and if one formed who would be involved? Would the entire western political front jump in and throw their full support behind Israel? And who would be on the other side? Some sort of 'evil' arab empire? I highly doubt that considering that large Arab countries like Saudi Arabia have so many of their interests tied up in the west. Or would the 'terrible' Chinese Commies (who are brilliant capitalists as it turns out) jump in to support the Wests enemies? ... Highly unlikely.

 

[Bullitt]

Interesting article I got here;

“Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.â€

Something bad is happening in Asia. North Korea is trying to provoke Japan, South Korea, America, and pretty much everyone else in the world with missile tests and fightin’ words. Japan is mulling a pre-emptive strike. Taiwan is now planning a ballistic missile test, and according to Chungshan Institute of Science and Technology, it has a range of 600 miles and accurate to half a meter. India tested a long range, nuclear-capable missile the other day. And today, there was a series of train bombings in Mumbai, India, killing nearly 150 at last count.

America has pledged it’s support for Taiwan, if fighting breaks out with China. We clearly would defend Japan and South Korea if they were attacked. India and Pakistan are both allies, but if it came down to choosing one or the other, we would likely side with India. North Korea is a dangerous enemy, and seems to be itching for a fight. We have economic interests with China, and vice versa, but who knows what either of us would do in a time of extreme tension and hostility.

Prior to World War I, there were arms races, alliances, and war that was certainly going to happen. However, it was supposed to just be a relatively minor war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia. But The Allies and Central Powers pledged their support to their respective sides, and a localized war ended up encompassing the entire globe, or at least the resources of it. Did it need to be this way? The Treaty of Versailles claimed it was all Germany’s fault. I fault ego and arrogance on all sides.

So here we are, a century after the arms buildup to WWI, and what do we see? An arms buildup in Asia, and everyone already declaring their support. Only this time, it’s involving many more countries, many more people, and weapons many times more destructive. We also see wars that are almost certain to happen. Taiwan and China. India and Pakistan. North Korea and South Korea and Japan. None of us are naïve to think any one of these conflicts would just involve those parties. America, Europe and others have declared their support, so if fighting were to break out, it’s certain WWIII would ensue. And if any one of these conflicts started, it wouldn’t take much for these other fights to begin.

It seems like a pretty bleak outlook. People have been saying there would be a war between America and China which would decide who the next superpower would be. What we’re witnessing now could be the beginning of such conflict.

Should we be doomed to have massive wars every 100 years, though? Can’t we use our heads and prevent it? Is Taiwan worth causing a war? Is Kashmir? Are nuclear weapons and far-reaching missiles worth it? Is ego worth it?

North Korea should spend its money on feeding the millions of starving citizens. India should continue to nurture its growing technology industry. Pakistan should work at democratization, and become a model not only for the Muslim world, but the entire world. China should realize it’s can’t continue on its path of oppression and restriction, and work on a positive and cooperative relationship with America. Who says we have to fight to be superpowers? Both our countries, and the world, would benefit from our working together. Friendly competition reaps better results than a hostile rivalry.

I’m not some peacenik crying out ‘Why can’t we all just get along?’ I’m saying that it is in nobody’s interest to start this war.[/b]

 

[wigan_rlfc]

Originally posted by St Helens RLFC+Jul 20 2006, 05:43 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-wigan_rlfc

@Jul 20 2006, 02:17 PM
If Uncle Sam's full name wasn't Uncle Samuel Goldstein then the world wouldn't be sitting back and let these disgraceful acts by Isreal happen.  Where is the justice in attacking another nation just because yopu don't like a minority of the people that live there.  Have Isreal even declared war on Lebanon?  If not then surely they are breaching numerous international laws.

And Lebanon aren't? [/b]

It isn't the Lebanese armed forces who are attacking Isreal, it is a extremist/terrorist political group who have aquired some rockets who are attacking a country that they question its right to exist.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Originally posted by wigan_rlfc@Jul 21 2006, 11:28 AM

It isn't the Lebanese armed forces who are attacking Isreal, it is a extremist/terrorist political group who have aquired some rockets who are attacking a country that they question its right to exist.

No excuses. The Lebanonese government aren't doing enough.

 

[DC]

Originally posted by St Helens RLFC+Jul 22 2006, 05:37 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-wigan_rlfc

@Jul 21 2006, 11:28 AM

It isn't the Lebanese armed forces who are attacking Isreal, it is a extremist/terrorist political group who have aquired some rockets who are attacking a country that they question its right to exist.

No excuses. The Lebanonese government aren't doing enough. [/b]

thats coz the lebanese government is strongly influenced and backed by hezzbollah..

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Precisely.

 

[BronskiBeat]

Bingo! looks like we've finally hit the nail on the head

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by Teh Mite@Jul 21 2006, 08:54 PM
Interesting article I got here;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

“Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.â€

Something bad is happening in Asia. North Korea is trying to provoke Japan, South Korea, America, and pretty much everyone else in the world with missile tests and fightin’ words. Japan is mulling a pre-emptive strike. Taiwan is now planning a ballistic missile test, and according to Chungshan Institute of Science and Technology, it has a range of 600 miles and accurate to half a meter. India tested a long range, nuclear-capable missile the other day. And today, there was a series of train bombings in Mumbai, India, killing nearly 150 at last count.

America has pledged it’s support for Taiwan, if fighting breaks out with China. We clearly would defend Japan and South Korea if they were attacked. India and Pakistan are both allies, but if it came down to choosing one or the other, we would likely side with India. North Korea is a dangerous enemy, and seems to be itching for a fight. We have economic interests with China, and vice versa, but who knows what either of us would do in a time of extreme tension and hostility.

Prior to World War I, there were arms races, alliances, and war that was certainly going to happen. However, it was supposed to just be a relatively minor war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia. But The Allies and Central Powers pledged their support to their respective sides, and a localized war ended up encompassing the entire globe, or at least the resources of it. Did it need to be this way? The Treaty of Versailles claimed it was all Germany’s fault. I fault ego and arrogance on all sides.

So here we are, a century after the arms buildup to WWI, and what do we see? An arms buildup in Asia, and everyone already declaring their support. Only this time, it’s involving many more countries, many more people, and weapons many times more destructive. We also see wars that are almost certain to happen. Taiwan and China. India and Pakistan. North Korea and South Korea and Japan. None of us are naïve to think any one of these conflicts would just involve those parties. America, Europe and others have declared their support, so if fighting were to break out, it’s certain WWIII would ensue. And if any one of these conflicts started, it wouldn’t take much for these other fights to begin.

It seems like a pretty bleak outlook. People have been saying there would be a war between America and China which would decide who the next superpower would be. What we’re witnessing now could be the beginning of such conflict.

Should we be doomed to have massive wars every 100 years, though? Can’t we use our heads and prevent it? Is Taiwan worth causing a war? Is Kashmir? Are nuclear weapons and far-reaching missiles worth it? Is ego worth it?

North Korea should spend its money on feeding the millions of starving citizens. India should continue to nurture its growing technology industry. Pakistan should work at democratization, and become a model not only for the Muslim world, but the entire world. China should realize it’s can’t continue on its path of oppression and restriction, and work on a positive and cooperative relationship with America. Who says we have to fight to be superpowers? Both our countries, and the world, would benefit from our working together. Friendly competition reaps better results than a hostile rivalry.

I’m not some peacenik crying out ‘Why can’t we all just get along?’ I’m saying that it is in nobody’s interest to start this war.

[/b][/quote]
Yeah, interesting article there TM. But I do question some of his/her claims about the current climate... Specifically to do with North Korea, whom I really question the level of threat they actually pose. In NK you have a poverty-stricken country with very little means of support and no real bargaining chip with the rest of the world outside its hollow threats. They know no one is interested in fighting them because there is simply nothing to gain from it, and as such are keen to provoke in the hope that they'll receive pay outs to shut them up.

As for Taiwan and China, well China has always wanted Taiwan back because they consider it a part of China. But given their current privileged position as an upcoming economic superpower, they are hardly likely to attack them if they thought it would result in a war with a major power like the US and jeopardise their economic growth. That's of course assuming the US helped Taiwan, and they'd have to consider them to be key to the US's national interest for them to be involved in any serious fighting considering the incredible and crippling cost that would be involved… But presumably the threat of their involvement would be enough of a deterant.

India and Pakistan are a serious problem however, and it's hard to see the tensions easing in the foreseeable future. India is also (like China) one of the worlds emerging economic powers, and the more money and power they gain the larger their military spending is likely to become, which poses the very real threat of them becoming more assertive with Pakistan... However, the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) theory still applies in this case with both of them being Nuclear armed, and this could (hopefully) see war never eventuate between the two.

 

[wigan_rlfc]

Originally posted by St Helens RLFC+Jul 21 2006, 05:37 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-wigan_rlfc

@Jul 21 2006, 11:28 AM

It isn't the Lebanese armed forces who are attacking Isreal, it is a extremist/terrorist political group who have aquired some rockets who are attacking a country that they question its right to exist.

No excuses. The Lebanonese government aren't doing enough. [/b]

So because of this they deserve to have their infrastructure destroyed?

Lebanon hates Isreal. It was only a couple of years ago that the Isreali army occupied parts of Southern Lebanon. Is it any wonder why some Lebanese nationals want to attack Isreal?

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Are you saying this is an excuse for Israeli soldiers to be kidnapped when on Israeli soil?

 

[wigan_rlfc]

Originally posted by St Helens RLFC@Jul 22 2006, 12:35 PM
Are you saying this is an excuse for Israeli soldiers to be kidnapped when on Israeli soil?

Because the kidnappings have lots to do with the civilians under air attack in Beiruit. The Lebanese government didn't carry out the abductions so why is it that their country is being attacked without a declaration of war?

 

[Black-Monday]

I agree with you there, a country is being pounded and now invaded because of Hezbollah. Ok the Leb aren't exactly outlawing the group but then neither supporting them.

The invasion that is happening now is totally immoral and were it not israel, more reaction would ensue.

Why is it not like Iraq invading Kuwait?

Continue...

BM

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Originally posted by wigan_rlfc@Jul 22 2006, 02:31 PM
so why is it that their country is being attacked without a declaration of war?

That I don't know:

But why are the Lebanese not doing more to get the soldiers freed? That will stop this nonsense.

 

[wigan_rlfc]

The Lebanese are probably pre-occupied at the moment with trying to get roads fixed, electricity, gas, water mains etc. back up and running. Plus with Isreali ground troops making moves into Southern Lebanon itself (where the abductees are probably being held) they might be attacked by the Isreali forces and would probably have to fight Hezbolla aswell.

 

[DC]

Originally posted by Black-Monday@Jul 23 2006, 01:44 AM
I agree with you there, a country is being pounded and now invaded because of Hezbollah. Ok the Leb aren't exactly outlawing the group but then neither supporting them.

The invasion that is happening now is totally immoral and were it not israel, more reaction would ensue.

Why is it not like Iraq invading Kuwait?

Continue...

BM

they are not supporting the group because they are supported by the group..

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Exactly.

And until they do more to free the soldiers I refuse to extend any sympathy in their direction.

 

[Ripper]

Originally posted by Black-Monday@Jul 23 2006, 01:44 AM
I agree with you there, a country is being pounded and now invaded because of Hezbollah. Ok the Leb aren't exactly outlawing the group but then neither supporting them.

The invasion that is happening now is totally immoral and were it not israel, more reaction would ensue.

Why is it not like Iraq invading Kuwait?

Continue...

BM

Because Israel aren't going to take over Lebanon, they might occupy it for awhile, but once they destroy Hezbollah, they are going to go home, and then destroy the Arab Nations when they try to gang up on them again. And the way your going about you would think the civililans of Lebanon are all against Hezbollah, but a majority of the population supports this terrorist group. Look at the news, and all you see is the streets crowded with old ladies armed to the teeth.

Saddam invaded Kuwait with the intent to bleed it dry of all its oil and strip any independence it had.