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Wales vs England - 16/03/2013

I don't think I'd be able to get through the pre-match build-up. John Inverdale to anyone who will listen: "Just how good is this Wales back three?"

You really think the EBC will talk about anything but a "nailed on" GS, leaving Jiffy outnumbered in the red corner and social media will slate him as biased?

But in answer to your question, good but not good as it can be
 
Finish your drink if Cuthbert cries
Finish your drink if one of Robshaw's decisions are overruled by a team-mate
A finger every time Mike Phillips screw-faces someone
 
See it off when England win a scrum penalty and Cymro complains about the referee because of it :D
 
Why the hell do we have to be submitted to a ****ing useless SH referee, since Caplan isn't doing internationals any more, there isn't a single one of them I'd have doing a level 5 game!
 
Well today's the day. It's a foul day here in London, grey and rainy, so I'm cheering myself up with whisky and red bull (not mixed you heathens) and the prospect of a full day of rugby.

I have to say, I am rather calm about what the day might bring. Very difficult to call - but win, and we have a Grand Slam. Lose, and we will simply build further. An awful lot about the team is right at the core, it's a matter of progressing beyond that, and if I'm honest I care more about that than the Slam.

Looking at the team sheets, at the first XVs, I feel that Wales should win this - on paper. Man for man, in terms of talent, they bring a slight edge overall. This is particularly true in the front row and the back three. In general we are very similar, both teams built around solid defence and territory; we cannot hope our style will unpick theirs, although we might hope we play it better. But in a close match, you would expect scrum superiority to be vital, with the prospect of a moment of genius/madness being decisive - the back threes tilts the odds of that happening to them.

But I still feel reasonably optimistic. We have a few potential gamebreakers of our own in Youngs and Tuilagi. We have a stronger bench - Vunipola will come and offer massive carrying, Haskell and Lawes can force a higher tempo. Care and Flood may not have been much cop against Italy, but they've performed everytime they've come off the bench so far. I do not wish to sledge the Welsh bench, they're useful enough, particularly Liam Williams, but I do not think they are as strong.

Most crucially, I look at the coaches and the impact they have on the players' minds and I feel happy. Lancaster, whatever his flaws, has created a team that specialises in tight games. Howley's Wales have specialised in losing such games. I would not wish to say we will definitely have the greater composure, as it will be a pressure game and a half, but previous evidence says we will. Hopefully it will continue. Hopefully the coherence and mentality of Lancaster's England will see us through. But if it doesn't, I shall not be surprised - nor too displeased - I only hope that it will be a good game of rugby, and that the Welsh are happy in their victory.

The thing I am looking forwards to most for today is the battle of the breakdown. The Welsh have a lot of jackals; we have set a very high standard in clearing our own rucks. Nor are we short of jackals ourselves. Can we win this particular battle? It would be very impressive if we did. I think we can - numbers, pace and technique is the answer to securing your own ball and we have been doing that right (mostly). Launchbury's fitness will be key to this. There's been a lot of talk about our back-row. I am happy with it as the best unit we have available, a reasonably balanced unit well fitted to our game plan - it is not my ideal back-row, but so far so good - but this will be its biggest test. But they won't be the only people to blame if the battle of the breakdown goes wrong.

Finally - good luck to the Welsh, may rugby be the winner though.

It won't though. Be a pig of a game probably.

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You really think the EBC will talk about anything but a "nailed on" GS, leaving Jiffy outnumbered in the red corner and social media will slate him as biased?

It's fine, he'll always have ScrumV to go and make proclamations about the entire Welsh squad being world class uncontested.
 
I hope England get this but they have exceeded all expectations. Realistically nobody expected them to win the championship let along the Grand slam so soon after Lancaster took over and turned the team inside out. Even a defeat wouldn't be too bad as this is a work in progress team that really shouldn't have been able to compete for the championship yet. Hope for a good game but the real test for Lancaster will be next year, by then he should have the team he actually wants.
 
I would much rather see a performance from both sides than care who wins...although it is obvioulsy important to both teams if only for the money!!

For England, they are at last showing that they have the makings of a good squad (with some way to go before they can be compared to 2002/3) after years and years of failures littered with bad attitidues, poor players selected and incompetent coaches. A good performnce today will continue the progression as it is such an important match with huge pressure in one of the best stadia in the world for this kind of match.

For Wales, after the last year, and even the three away wins, a win here would show that their current rankings do not show their true status and that they are back on the upward trend toward 2015. After this game, Gatland should be back and surely he should make a difference over the ability and relative inexperience of Howley.

For the neutral, the game is important as after the first week the rugby oin the 6N has been pretty average and a strong match under cover with attacking rugby and heroic defence from both sides will leave a better taste in the NH supporrters mouths............

Too close to call but let us have a good game with high performances on both sides and let the best side win (although i would marginally prefer it to be England than Wales for all the same reason the Welsh "hate" the English)!!
 
I think there are more weaknesses in the English team, and the Welsh team has more attacking weapons. The big question is whether Wales can get those attacking weapons into the game enough to test these weaknesses.

What are these English weaknesses?

- Scrum. I'm unsure how much of an influence the scrum will have on the game, because the Millenium pitch is notoriously poor, especially when the roof is shut. Referees don't always know wth is going on either. I think the Welsh scrum will be on top, with Adam and Hibbard doing a number on Marler, but whether or not this translates into points depends on those two points above.

- Backrow. Maybe this won't be a weakness, but I think there's a potential weakness there. Croft only just back from major injury could be a weakness. Wood playing out of position at 8 could be a weakness. Lacking a traditional openside, up against two could be a weakness. We'll have to wait and see, but if Warburton and Tipuric don't get the better on the turnover count I'd be massively surprised.

- Back three. I think there's huge weaknesses in England's back three. We have got to target Ashton, and for this reason we may see a slightly different gameplan from Wales, a more open one attempting to give North one-on-one's v Ashton. If this happens, North could have a field-day. Barritt could be key to stopping this though, If he pressurises our centres, then the ball may not make it as far as North on the wing, forcing North to come in-field to get ball, away from Ashton's weak defence.
 
For Wales, after the last year, and even the three away wins, a win here would show that their current rankings do not show their true status and that they are back on the upward trend toward 2015. After this game, Gatland should be back and surely he should make a difference over the ability and relative inexperience of Howley.
Once the 6N is done, this is something that has to be talked about. Doing the World Cup draw three years in advance is stupid beyond belief. Not even the stadiums have been picked yet, so it can't be anything to do with scheduling. Less than half a year on since the draw, we have 3 of the top 5 ranked teams all in one pool, including 2 of the top 4. If the draw was the IRB's attempt at spreading the talent over the 4 pools, it has failed miserably. Also, France, a tier one team? Sure in November, laughable now though. <_<

The football world cup pool draw takes place the December before the year of the world cup, and compared to the RWC must be a logistical nightmare. But they manage...

- Backrow. Maybe this won't be a weakness, but I think there's a potential weakness there. Croft only just back from major injury could be a weakness. Wood playing out of position at 8 could be a weakness. Lacking a traditional openside, up against two could be a weakness. We'll have to wait and see, but if Warburton and Tipuric don't get the better on the turnover count I'd be massively surprised.
Wood is an openside though and a very decent one at that. Robshaw/Wood actually have a perfect flanker balance at 6/7 imo. Notably Robshaw has been at his best playing for England since Wood came into the squad.

FWIW, the best backrow and only time England won the 6N under MJ, was when Wood was involved for the 2011 Six Nations. Was one of the best players that tournament and may well have deserved player of the tournament, but never got a MotM so couldn't be nominated if I remember correctly.

But then Wood was dropped for Moody in the World Cup and was injured last year.

Lack of balance comes solely from no 8 imo, but Vunipola could provide that in the second half, and it's not as if Faletau is the traditional 8.

- Back three. I think there's huge weaknesses in England's back three. We have got to target Ashton, and for this reason we may see a slightly different gameplan from Wales, a more open one attempting to give North one-on-one's v Ashton. If this happens, North could have a field-day. Barritt could be key to stopping this though, If he pressurises our centres, then the ball may not make it as far as North on the wing, forcing North to come in-field to get ball, away from Ashton's weak defence.
Agree, but neither Roberts nor JD2 are distributors, and Barritt flying out will probably stomp out full backline attacks. I expect Ashton to be tested through blindside or "half" attacks (not sure the name for them, where the ruck starts in the middle of the field and there isn't a full backline to take the ball on) though. Barritt might not be able to help him out there.
 
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All fair points really Dull.

-Scrum. Hard to predict the influence it will have on the game, as sometimes the majority of scrums take place bang in the middle of the field. If as you say, the pitch breaks up a bit, we may be more likely to see a bit of a lottery. I imagine Adam will be planning what he's going to smear on Marler when he has him on toast. I think Dan Cole has a big job to do because if he can put some pressure on Gethin, he might be able to change the way Jones is playing.

-Back row is also hard to predict. It may all go to **** for England. But, in terms of jackling we do have a number of people who can do that. Cole used to be a flanker and it shows. The other thing is that it depends how Lancaster is asking Tom Wood to play. Is the number 8 on his back a ceremonial ***le for scrum time, with him playing his usual game as a flanker? If so, he plays 7 for his club, and maybe that could show. He's not as good a jackler as the others but he can play the 'pain in the ass openside' role rather well, quite similar to how Haskell when he plays 7. So it's not solely about jackling, its about general pressure at the breakdown area as well as your bigger counter-rucking effort. Which is why I completely agree with Peat, Launchbury and Parling come into their own due to their high work-rate in that area.

-Back 3. Certainly it should be advantage Wales. However. Firstly, I do think Ashtons defence is better than given credit for. He doesn't shy away from contact like most people who would be described as poor defenders. I think his poor general form is amplifying concerns over his defence. At the moment he could be seen as a weakness, but he's still arguably the most natural tryscorer on the field when given a sniff. I don't thnk Englands gameplan at present has any empathy towards Ashtons style as a player, which is another way in which he's looking poorer than he is. Creatively, Wales' outside backs should hve the edge, but the current way Wales are playing doesn't emphasise creative risk-taking running rugby particularly. If magic happens, it will be individuals seizing the initiative rather than working within the gameplan. Mike Brown can create as much as anyone, even out of position. He's made the most linebreaks of anyone and his break last week was brilliant, and with a remotely competent backline would have led to a try.
 
Wish England had re-poached Shaun Edwards back. If not in the national side, then back into a EP set-up. His contribution to the Welsh defense could be the difference between them winning and losing this and i'm of the opinion that it's unfair. Why should the Welsh have a rugby league plant when they dont play League? Rushing defenses like that should be a wholly English/Aussie/Kiwi phenomena. See if i get a bite from that. ;)

- Backrow. Maybe this won't be a weakness, but I think there's a potential weakness there. Croft only just back from major injury could be a weakness. Wood playing out of position at 8 could be a weakness. Lacking a traditional openside, up against two could be a weakness. We'll have to wait and see, but if Warburton and Tipuric don't get the better on the turnover count I'd be massively surprised.

Not sure about that. If Warburton and Tipuric were to be such a potent force at the breakdown Howley would of picked them sooner. If anything, the breakdown could be a weakness for Wales. It's where i would expect England to concentrate most, plundering and clearing out rucks and physically beating Wales slowly but surely over the course of the game. England are a more formidable team in the contact. Only France when they had commitment and conditioning in the first half matched and even surpassed England in the contact till they blew up in the second half. You could point to Italy in the second half, yet injuries are a chief worry among Elite players and heading into a potential Grand Slam against Wales played a factor in that display.

Alot will depend on the referees interpretation of the breakdown. If it was a NH ref i'd be expecting England to control the breakdown. Yet we have Walsh, who could favour Wales. Pretty sure this would of been brought up in both sides' preperations as playing the referee is such an important aspect of the game today. Walsh will be aware of the controversy of Joubert's scrum analysis of Wales against Scotland too.

- Back three. I think there's huge weaknesses in England's back three. We have got to target Ashton, and for this reason we may see a slightly different gameplan from Wales, a more open one attempting to give North one-on-one's v Ashton. If this happens, North could have a field-day. Barritt could be key to stopping this though, If he pressurises our centres, then the ball may not make it as far as North on the wing, forcing North to come in-field to get ball, away from Ashton's weak defence.

Better off targeting Brown. He gets bumped off at first contact far too easily. If isolated Brown would be in trouble. Ashton can tackle if he puts his mind to it and now the focus on him is his defensive weakness i'd expect him to be better today. Not expecting much ball to get outwide for Wales as you say. Baritt and Manu will be all over the Welsh centres like a rash. Plus Davis cannot pass at the best of times anyways. Otherwise North would have a field day.




Cant wait for this game. :rolleyes: It will be cluster**** of a game from a fans point of view. Could be upon one decision. Wales have looked to offer far more then the rest of the 6N sides after their first half against Ireland. Think England will target Mike Phillips as Wales will target Farrell. If Mike Phillips has a poor game Wales will lose.
 
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I don't think our defence has been bad - worst it's been was for the Italy try, which it had no shape as it was from a terrible kick/turnover, then great exploitation by Orquera.
Farrell is a league guy as well, so that should tick that box for you :p
 
I don't think our defence has been bad - worst it's been was for the Italy try, which it had no shape as it was from a terrible kick/turnover, then great exploitation by Orquera.
Farrell is a league guy as well, so that should tick that box for you :p

Glad his back. His more likely to play a long pass, missing out a man (*cough Barritt) and get it outwide to Croft quicker. Hoping Croft has a stormer. Plan A seems to be Lineout dominance and territory play.
 
Wish England had re-poached Shaun Edwards back. If not in the national side, then back into a EP set-up. His contribution to the Welsh defense could be the difference between them winning and losing this and i'm of the opinion that it's unfair. Why should the Welsh have a rugby league plant when they dont play League? Rushing defenses like that should be a wholly English/Aussie/Kiwi phenomena. See if i get a bite from that. ;)

I'm sure clubs are lining up for him after his brilliant contribution to London Irish's season.
 
I'm sure clubs are lining up for him after his brilliant contribution to London Irish's season.

Not sure how much impact you can have on the mindset of a side contributing one day a week for a few months.
 
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