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Wales Tour 2013: Japan

Yeah, I am wary of ESPN stats, but from what I recall the penalty stats were more or less correct. He did improve against the Barbarians, but I think he had a card, which might have influenced my opinion at the time.
From tight forwards I like to see discipline and defence rather than massive gains carrying. I would rather have a blindside and eight that can offer that, but we seem to want forward that only tackle.
 
Yeah, I am wary of ESPN stats, but from what I recall the penalty stats were more or less correct. He did improve against the Barbarians, but I think he had a card, which might have influenced my opinion at the time.
From tight forwards I like to see discipline and defence rather than massive gains carrying. I would rather have a blindside and eight that can offer that, but we seem to want forward that only tackle.

Not doubting the penalties. More of the tackles, meters made and that. ESPN generally get the penalised players correct.
 
Not doubting the penalties. More of the tackles, meters made and that. ESPN generally get the penalised players correct.
Very true. I usually monitor the stats during a match, and have sometimes seen notable changes a few hours later. After Wales v AIG there was quite a change in metres gained for some players, such as Cuthbert and Savea.
I find the SMH stats to be decently accurate for S15 matches.
 
That is what I'd like to see. We need another 8 besides Faletau. Anybody who says Andy Powell gets negged.
Pretorius is probably the obvious one. If not, my friend's been talking about Kieran Murphy at the Scarlets? Not seen him play, but supposedly plays a bit like Ben Morgan, with some powerful runs?
 
Pretorius isn't an 8, he's a 6. Although he may well play there due to lack of options if Faletau is away.

There is a dearth of genuine 8's in Wales, Faletau doesn't have much competition at all with Delve the other option not available, and the fact Powelly is probably the third best 8 says it all about the depth of 8's at the minute. It would be useful for Wales actually if Faletau didn't make the Lions tour and Heaslip, Denton and Ben Morgan go ahead and he could play for Wales in June.
 
Powell tried a dropgoal vs Saints, and put in a couple of decent grubbers/punts last season - worth a shot at 10, surely?
 
Pretorius isn't an 8, he's a 6. Although he may well play there due to lack of options if Faletau is away.

There is a dearth of genuine 8's in Wales, Faletau doesn't have much competition at all with Delve the other option not available, and the fact Powelly is probably the third best 8 says it all about the depth of 8's at the minute. It would be useful for Wales actually if Faletau didn't make the Lions tour and Heaslip, Denton and Ben Morgan go ahead and he could play for Wales in June.
FWIW, you're not going to learn much about a genuine 8 in Japan anyway. Japan have one of the physically smallest teams in world rugby, especially in the backline. A genuine 8 would have a field day, but it wouldn't be representative of their ability.

Also, there are two options: fast-track someone who could develop into a decent 8 (Wales will get away with it against Japan imo), or shun what I think is a bit of an outdated model anyway, and use someone who isn't a genuine 8 there.

The first strategy is a long-term one with no real guarantee that it will speed up the development, or the player chosen to develop will actually ever develop into a decent 8. I also think that rushing a player into developing in a problem position puts a lot of pressure on that player, and it's just better to let it happen naturally. If a natural 8 develops for Wales later, good. If not, look at ways in which Wales can get around this.

The second strategy, imo, allows Wales to vary their options in the backrow. Since Wales usually play the "archetypal 6 - archetypal 8 - archetypal 7" system, and they can only have one player on the bench, which is usually another "archetypal 7", then I think that against Japan would be a good chance to consider how they play their plan B. Having a genuine 8 on the field in games where you can't seem to get your hands on the ball can sometimes be pointless. Perhaps not always with Faletau, because he plays a lot like a flanker anyway, but having another 7 on the field can certainly be a way of trying to vary your options in the last quarter of the game. (Often, teams which are being beaten do like-for-like swaps. Tipuric-for-Warburton, imo, is a bit silly, except for when Warburton is playing badly. It simply doesn't do anything to change how the team plays.) So I'd consider, as a test for the future, an "archetypal 6 - archetypal 7 - archetypal 7" backrow: Shingler, Tipuric, Lewis.

Besides, I doubt it will be long before we see teams playing with dual opensides regularly. The breakdown is important, opensides are in fashion (in the last few years, blindside-to-openside has to be the most popular position conversion), and it's just waiting for someone to try it. I'm hoping England will consider giving it a go with Armitage and Wood. Australia with Pocock and Hooper. Wales with Warburton and Tipuric. etc.
 
Pretorius is probably the obvious one. If not, my friend's been talking about Kieran Murphy at the Scarlets? Not seen him play, but supposedly plays a bit like Ben Morgan, with some powerful runs?

Considering how he is seemingly overwhelmed at Pro12, not right now!
Dan Baker could be a possibility in a few seasons if he gets time with the Os.
Ieuan Jones is another, very likely to get more time with Lydiate and probably Faletau leaving.
 
Lol no.
29 years old. 'Welsh'. No chance of an England call-up.
I'd rather ***o!
 
No thanks.

He should have thrown his name into the hat like 5 years earlier if he was serious about playing for Wales.

I reckon Wales will lose AWJ to the Lions, but will have at least two possibly three of the top four Welsh locks available. The reserve spot on the tour can go to whoever is the on form regional player.
 
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No thanks.

He should have thrown his name into the hat like 5 years earlier if he was serious about playing for Wales.

I reckon Wales will lose AWJ to the Lions, but will have at least two possibly three of the top four Welsh locks available. The reserve spot on the tour can go to whoever is the on form regional player.
Lloyd Peers is looking decent. People will say he is small, but he gives it a go! Similar size to Gough, who had a good international career.
 
Lloyd Peers is looking decent. People will say he is small, but he gives it a go! Similar size to Gough, who had a good international career.

Peers introduction along with Adam Jones yesterday was a big factor to why the Ospreys scrum improved. Very impressed with him yesterday.
 
Peers introduction along with Adam Jones yesterday was a big factor to why the Ospreys scrum improved. Very impressed with him yesterday.

Yeah, pretty skillful player, not a big dull lad. James King isn't a bad one either, but I think he might be better off in the back row.
 
I just have to say what an impressive player Dan Biggar has developed into.
I was first in line to have a go at him a few years back, but fair play, he has knuckled down and become a player far better than I could have ever thought possible.

Must be our first choice outside half for not only this tour, but the Six Nations as well. We desperately need another scrum half. I thought Jonathan Evans had a good cameo off the bench, plenty of pace from the little lad!
 
So AWJ is very possibly going to miss the first few rounds, Ian Evans in unpredictable as well.
Brad and Ryan for Six Nations at second row, Shingler blind?
Lloyd Peers, stand up!
 
Pretorius is probably the obvious one. If not, my friend's been talking about Kieran Murphy at the Scarlets? Not seen him play, but supposedly plays a bit like Ben Morgan, with some powerful runs?

Dude, I'm the friend that suggested Kieran Murphy as an option :p But yeah he has been superb this season imo. Scored 2 tries, and got man of the match on his debut in the LV Cup in a 31-3 victory over Tigers. Phil Bennett sees big things for him too. Only problem is he's qualified to play both for Wales and Scotland, so Wales management need to snap him up quickly. Positive is that he is still only 24 years old. I think he has a big future ahead of him, if he is developed in the right way.
 
Dude, I'm the friend that suggested Kieran Murphy as an option :p But yeah he has been superb this season imo. Scored 2 tries, and got man of the match on his debut in the LV Cup in a 31-3 victory over Tigers. Phil Bennett sees big things for him too. Only problem is he's qualified to play both for Wales and Scotland, so Wales management need to snap him up quickly. Positive is that he is still only 24 years old. I think he has a big future ahead of him, if he is developed in the right way.

I'm not sure Kieran Murphy is international class, certainly not yet anyway. He can put in some Ben Morgan esque galloping runs, but isn't half as effective the majority of the time. Like Morgan was at the Scarlets, Murphy doesn't get stuck in in the tight either. He should easily be the Scarlets first choice 8 ahead of McCusker, but until Easterby sees that he's going to struggle to improve. He's still probably one of the best options to go to Japan, but that says more about the dearth of 8's playing in Wales.

Morgan Allen and Dan Baker at the Ospreys have potential, but neither are getting much gametime.
 
Dude, I'm the friend that suggested Kieran Murphy as an option :p But yeah he has been superb this season imo. Scored 2 tries, and got man of the match on his debut in the LV Cup in a 31-3 victory over Tigers. Phil Bennett sees big things for him too. Only problem is he's qualified to play both for Wales and Scotland, so Wales management need to snap him up quickly. Positive is that he is still only 24 years old. I think he has a big future ahead of him, if he is developed in the right way.

If Murphy has been so "superb" this season then why can't he keep the sub par McCusker out of the Scarlets team?

Being qualified for Scotland means he may well be lost given their current appetite for hunting for non-Scots to add to their team. But then he may have played Wales U20.

I'm not sure Kieran Murphy is international class, certainly not yet anyway. He can put in some Ben Morgan esque galloping runs, but isn't half as effective the majority of the time. Like Morgan was at the Scarlets, Murphy doesn't get stuck in in the tight either. He should easily be the Scarlets first choice 8 ahead of McCusker, but until Easterby sees that he's going to struggle to improve. He's still probably one of the best options to go to Japan, but that says more about the dearth of 8's playing in Wales.

Morgan Allen and Dan Baker at the Ospreys have potential, but neither are getting much gametime.

I don't see much potential in Morgan Allen tbh. He has never really done much of note during his time with the Ospreys.

Bearman is probably the second best 8 at the regions and is a clear step above Jonathan Thomas and Powell. But he is 33 so will likely never get an international cap. Still better than some of the rookies suggested in this thread.
 
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