Wales Summer Tour 2012

[psychic duck]

Rob Howley is supposed to be at Rodney this week to take a look at Lewis Evans and Adam Hughes.
Lewis has been in great form this season, really taking to 7 well. Despite our issues elsewhere in the side, our backrow has been quite good, dominating the Blues and I think getting the better of the Ospreys.

Shingler simply has to start at 6. He could develop into a 7 for the Turks, but I am banking on Daniel Thomas coming through. Shingler to 6 and McCusker or Murphy at 8.

Darren Waters has been quite good for the Dragons as well,

hopefully they get a decent fly half with some experience, and a good prop otherwise they will struggle again

 

[Draggs]

Darren Waters has been quite good for the Dragons as well,

hopefully they get a decent fly half with some experience, and a good prop otherwise they will struggle again

We are trying to clear a SA/NZ-based outside half, pending WRU/Regional approval, if Robin Davey is to be believed.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Navidi called up to the Baa Baas... With Tipuric presumably set to play all 3 tests, does this open the way for Martyn to play against the Barbarians and then as Wales' second 7? If Warburton's out, we've got virtually nobody else (Turnbull hasn't been playing there, but would probably be the next pick)

Nah, I think Nugget will have his time to say goodbye at the MS then probably Lewis Evans will be taken to Oz.

 

[Draggs]

Nah, I think Nugget will have his time to say goodbye at the MS then probably Lewis Evans will be taken to Oz.

It is a Welsh-capped match, so 100 for Nugget. I wish he was our most-capped player, truly deserved.

 

[psychic duck]

It is a Welsh-capped match, so 100 for Nugget. I wish he was our most-capped player, truly deserved.

for years he was the only quality openside flanker Wales had and the first name on the teamsheet

Wales wouldn't have won the 2005 or 2008 Grand Slams without him, as the next alternative was quite some way off Nugget's quality

now Wales are really lucky to have two openside flankers who are immense, possibly the best depth of back rowers Wales has ever had at the moment, I wouldn't be unhappy to see a second choice back row of R Jones/Tipuric/Delve starting a test match to be honest

 

[TRF_Cymro]

How much I'd love to see Delve play for Wales again, I somehow don't think he will be selected. Although, he could hope someone gets injured in the backrow whilst out in Australia and then zing ... there's his chance.

BTW has Delve been confirmed for a return to the NH yet?

 

[Draggs]

How much I'd love to see Delve play for Wales again, I somehow don't think he will be selected. Although, he could hope someone gets injured in the backrow whilst out in Australia and then zing ... there's his chance.

BTW has Delve been confirmed for a return to the NH yet?

No. Wonder if the Rebels will release him early. Then again, he is a quality player with actual value to the Rebels side, unlike that other lad.
Save on plane fares at least!

 

[psychic duck]

How much I'd love to see Delve play for Wales again, I somehow don't think he will be selected. Although, he could hope someone gets injured in the backrow whilst out in Australia and then zing ... there's his chance.

BTW has Delve been confirmed for a return to the NH yet?

I think some competition for between Delve and Faletau could make Faletau a better player

although Delve is 29 and needs to make Wales squads again soon

I would play him above Powelly tbh, although I've heard he's done well with Sale this season

Delve has a move to Toulon is pretty much done, should be on the official site soon

there are a load of reports that suggest the deal is signed

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2011-2012/toulon-delve-a-signe_sto3147179/story.shtml

be hard competition for him at Toulon with Fernández Lobbe, Masoe and van Niekerk all there, one of those will have to be considered a flanker by Laporte to fit Delve into the squad

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Lewis Evans played well for the first half of the season, but since Christmas I haven't really noticed him, to be honest. I agree Darren Waters looked very good when he played, as did Sam Lewis for the Ospreys, but neither are ready for international rugby yet. I'd have Turnbull as our next choice after Tipuric & Martyn, although, again, he hasn't quite been putting in the sort of performances that won him his caps since he came back from injury.

Would like to see Delve included in the squad once we reach Oz, agreed, although him just playing the midweeker against the 'Tahs would be slightly pointless. Powelly's looked useful in what I've seen of him for Sale.

 

[Draggs]

Lewis Evans played well for the first half of the season, but since Christmas I haven't really noticed him, to be honest. I agree Darren Waters looked very good when he played, as did Sam Lewis for the Ospreys, but neither are ready for international rugby yet. I'd have Turnbull as our next choice after Tipuric & Martyn, although, again, he hasn't quite been putting in the sort of performances that won him his caps since he came back from injury.

Would like to see Delve included in the squad once we reach Oz, agreed, although him just playing the midweeker against the 'Tahs would be slightly pointless. Powelly's looked useful in what I've seen of him for Sale.

Lewis' match against USAP was one of the best regional openside performances I have seen. He has been shifted between blindside and openside throughout the season, but I really think his future is at 7.
Turnbull isn't a 7 (at least in the way I see a 7). I like them quick and nasty, getting in the way and causing problems (Nugget). He looks to be an attempt at a 6.5. The turks haven't really had a true openside for a while, but I digress. I personally prefer McCusker, but with Daniel Thomas coming through, and Shingler being outstanding at 6, I would consider moving McCusker to 8. He was tried there in 2010 before his injury and wasn't too bad. I believe his injury led to Ben Morgan's selection at 8, but once more, I digress.

We are in short supply of 8's. There is Faletau and Ryan Jones in Wales, Andy Powell (who has been in good form from what I hear, but critics will never agree), and Delve. Outside of that there is no one, and I don't see any coming through. I liked Ben Thomas, but from what I hear he is being released. Rory Pitman, who never really had a chance with the Ospreys, has gone to league for now. Luke Hamilton isn't bad, but there remain question marks over his future position, many seeing him as a 6. Alongside Paterson, Pretorius, and now Copeland, the Blues are sorted for blindsides.

It looks very likely that Martyn will play 7 for us. Warburton is possibly out, and Tipuric will be wrapped up and shipped to Aus. Navidi and Lewis are too young, and Lewis Evans/McCusker/Turnbull might not be used as a 7, at least this time around.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/22206.php

MARTYN!!

Also: Sam!

 

[Teh Mite]

Errr, why will Williams be capped against the BaaBaas?

 

[dullonien]

Nice to see, I'm glad he'll more than likely earn his 100th cap. I do not believe Howley when he says it's not on sentimental reasons though. If I were picking another openside for rugby reasons (looking to the future), then I'd have Josh Navidi in there who imo already overtook Martyn Williams in his level of performances for the Blues this season. However, with Sam and Tipuric, and with Turnbull, Shingler Lydiate and Faletau all having played 7 at some stage in recent times for country or region, there's no need to fast track Navidi into the squad.

Navidi should get plenty of gametime to develop at the Blues next season, and I think he'll be a shoe in for the Summer tour text year with Sam and possibly Tips going on the Lions tour. We're developing quite some depth in a position that was a massive worry just 3 years ago.

 

[Me 1]

Apparently Navidi will be playing for the Baabaa's, so we'll get to see him none the less. Might be worth giving Turbull a go, he's been good since coming back for us.

 

[Draggs]

Navidi needs to cut his bloody hair first!
He is down in the pecking order as far as I am concerned. I'd put Shingler, McCusker, Turnbull, Evans ahead of him.
If only we could find some Eights. Oh wait, Andy Powell...

Also, isn't this match outside of the IRB window, meaning no Mitchell or Powell? Cai Griffiths or Scott Andrews?

 

[dullonien]

Apparently Navidi will be playing for the Baabaa's, so we'll get to see him none the less. Might be worth giving Turbull a go, he's been good since coming back for us.

Ah yeh, forgot about that. So it's win, win, win. I'd prefer to see Turnbull play over Shingler at 7, with Shingler starting at 6. There's a chance both will start though, and it probably doesn't make a huge amount of difference which plays in which position. Both are blindsides, which is ultimately one of the Scarlets problems at the moment, too many blindsides (Shingler, Turnbull and McCusker), but no outstanding opensides.

Navidi needs to cut his bloody hair first!
He is down in the pecking order as far as I am concerned. I'd put Shingler, McCusker, Turnbull, Evans ahead of him.
If only we could find some Eights. Oh wait, Andy Powell...

Also, isn't this match outside of the IRB window, meaning no Mitchell or Powell? Cai Griffiths or Scott Andrews?

Completely disagree with that. I'd have Navidi as our third choice option behind Warbs and Tips. He's been in good form this season, and looks physically capable for international rugby, which he didn't a season ago. He's been playing behind a front five that's been getting hammered practically week in week out as well, making it very difficult for an openside like him (and Martyn Williams) to shine.

Turnbull, McCusker and Shingler are blindsides, who can do a job as a 6.5 kinda players, but they are similar to when Dafydd Jones was utilised on the open. Lewis Evans has potential as well, but I feel that he's another 6.5 kinda player. Navidi is a genuine 7, and as Warbs and Tips have shown, they're massively important to a team at the moment. He's the next in line to be developed by Gatland and co imo.

You might be right about Mitchell, Powell etc. No idea who we'll have on the tight then?

 

[Draggs]

Ah yeh, forgot about that. So it's win, win, win. I'd prefer to see Turnbull play over Shingler at 7, with Shingler starting at 6. There's a chance both will start though, and it probably doesn't make a huge amount of difference which plays in which position. Both are blindsides, which is ultimately one of the Scarlets problems at the moment, too many blindsides (Shingler, Turnbull and McCusker), but no outstanding opensides.

Daniel Thomas is coming through nicely. 8 is tough, Murphy has looked good and apparently a lad named Luke Kendall is playing well for Llandovery. McCusker didn't look bat at 8 before his injury in Autumn 2010.

Completely disagree with that. I'd have Navidi as our third choice option behind Warbs and Tips. He's been in good form this season, and looks physically capable for international rugby, which he didn't a season ago. He's been playing behind a front five that's been getting hammered practically week in week out as well, making it very difficult for an openside like him (and Martyn Williams) to shine.

Turnbull, McCusker and Shingler are blindsides, who can do a job as a 6.5 kinda players, but they are similar to when Dafydd Jones was utilised on the open. Lewis Evans has potential as well, but I feel that he's another 6.5 kinda player. Navidi is a genuine 7, and as Warbs and Tips have shown, they're massively important to a team at the moment. He's the next in line to be developed by Gatland and co imo.

You might be right about Mitchell, Powell etc. No idea who we'll have on the tight then?

Understandable. I suppose it depends on the way one looks at it. Do we just want cover, or to actually develop a new player? I look at the latter as the best option. I just don't think Navidi is ready for this level yet. Once more, the need for an 'A' side is apparent. Byrne will be out as well, possibly, with Clermont in the T14 semis.

From what I have heard, Hughes and Evans are touring.

 

[psychic duck]

I worry that this match will produce some players who in 5 years we'll look back and think how did he ever play for Wales?

One cap wonders for Wales of recent times have been Matt Cardey, James Griffiths, Richard Smith (2000), Andy Lloyd (2001), James Bater, Nathan Brew, Jon Bryant, Paul Young (2003), Jason Forster (2004), Matthew Jones, Richie Pugh, Tal Selley (2005), Barry Davies, Gavin Evans (2006), Scott Morgan (2007), Eifion Lewis-Roberts (2008)

I think this list may have a couple more additions to it after this match

Also, isn't this match outside of the IRB window, meaning no Mitchell or Powell? Cai Griffiths or Scott Andrews?

what a choice

 

[Draggs]

Enough revisionist history with Cardey online.
When he was selected in 2000, he was the in-form fullback and deserved his spot. He, however, was injured in that match and Rhys Williams took his chance.
Matthew Jones was also a decent prospect in 2005, before injury.

Eifion wouldn't fit into the current squad, with the fitness levels present.
Paul James is and Ryan Bevington could well start this match once more. The sooner Joe Rees reaches this level, the better.

 

[dullonien]

I have no idea who will play on the tight, because Adam is certain not to play. I'd avoid Cai Griffiths and especially Scott Andrews. Well, Paul James is the obvious choice, with Bevington on the other side. Not sure about bench mind! Rhodri Jones, Aaron Jarvis?

Edit. So what are we looking at for the BaaBaa's match all in all. 15 front line players will apparently already be in Aus. I'd expect them to be Gethin, Rees, Adam, Alun-Wyn, Ian Evans, Lydiate, Warbs, Tips, Faletau, Phillips, Lloyd Williams, Priestland, Davies (if fit), Halfpenny, North, Cuthbert. I personally wouldn't have Rees as our no.1 hooker, but I can see the management sticking with him for the first Aus test. Howley has hinted at North possibly playing at centre for the BaaBaa's game, so not sure. Ryan Jones should be one of the 15 as well, but we might be desperate for an 8! We have enough scrum halves, so Lloyd is included as one of the 15. If Mitchell and Powell aren't playing, they might still travel to Aus early with the other boys, can't stop that surely?

Further players unavailable: Mitchell, Powell, Peel, Byrne.

Which leaves us with a team of:

01 Ryan Bevington
02 Ken Owens / Richard Hibbard
03 Paul James
04 Bradley Davies
05 Luke Charteris
06 Aaron Shingler
07 Josh Turnbull
08 Ryan Jones

09 Rhys Webb
10 Dan Biggar
11 Harry Robinson
12 Ashley Beck
13 Scott Williams
14 Adam Hughes?
15 Liam Williams

16 Richard Hibbard/Ken Owens
17 Aaron Jarvis?
18 Dom Day/Lou Reed
19 Martyn Williams
20 Tavis Knoyle
21 James Hook
22 ???????

Probably missed one or two. Any ideas who can fill the final bench spot. Brew, Harries, Tom James, Czekaj, Fenby, Martyn Thomas. None are great options, but Harries or Martyn Thomas would be my picks.