(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

[0tago]

Can't wait for this test series.

If I had to pick an AB's team right now and injury free it would be;

1.Moody
2.Coles
3.Franks
4.Retallick
5.Whitelock
6.Todd
7.Cane
8.Read
9.A.Smith
10.Sopoaga
11.J.Savea
12.Ngatai
13.Fekitoa
14.NMS
15.B.Smith

Res. 1.Tu'ungafasi 2.C.Taylor 3.Faumuina 4.Tuipulotu 5.A.Savea 6.A.Ioane 7. Perenara 8. A.Cruden 9. D.Mckenzie 10. B.Barrett 11.R.Crotty 12. J.Lowe

Guys who might be rotated in from the extended squad;

1.B.Edmonds
2.L.Coltman/N.Harris
3.C.Faumuina/Laulala
4.J.Tupou
6.J.Taufua/E.Dixon/Sanders/Kaino
7.B.Gibson
8.L.Squire
9.B.Weber
10.Laumape
11.W.Naholo
12.Tevita Li
13.G.Moala

Quick draft, probably missed a few names, but that's what I could come up with off the top off my head.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Can't believe i was asleep for the #southernhemisphererugbyisntgood stuff.

That feels.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can't believe i was asleep for the #southernhemisphererugbyisntgood stuff.

That feels.

Yeah, I missed you trying to join in the joke like a four year old incoherently repeating some of the things their parents had said.

#TigsManisntfunny

 

[Groundhog]

When Tigs Man tells a 'funny' anecdote everyone who's listening feels uncomfortable and awkward to the extent they go to the toilet to escape.
#Tigsmanisntfunny

 

[Groundhog]

Tigs just saw the episode of Family Guy with the Bird is the Word song for the first time and keeps singing it at people like it just aired.
#Tigsmanisntfunny

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't need all this hate guys.

first losing to a mid table team like sale and now this.

I guess the the roadtrip to St Helens is cancelled then.

#Tigsmanisntfunnyhe'ssad

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Can't wait for this test series.

If I had to pick an AB's team right now and injury free it would be;

1.Moody
2.Coles
3.Franks
4.Retallick
5.Whitelock
6.Todd
7.Cane
8.Read
9.A.Smith
10.Sopoaga
11.J.Savea
12.Ngatai
13.Fekitoa
14.NMS
15.B.Smith

Res. 1.Tu'ungafasi 2.C.Taylor 3.Faumuina 4.Tuipulotu 5.A.Savea 6.A.Ioane 7. Perenara 8. Barrett 9. D.Mckenzie 10.R.Crotty 11. J.Lowe

Guys who might be rotated in from the extended squad;

1.B.Edmonds
2.L.Coltman/N.Harris
3.C.Faumuina/Laulala
4.J.Tupou
6.J.Taufua/E.Dixon/Sanders/Kaino
7.B.Gibson
8.L.Squire
9.B.Weber
10.A.Cruden
11.Laumape
12.W.Naholo
13.Tevita Li
14.G.Moala

Quick draft, probably missed a few names, but that's what I could come up with off the top off my head.

Todd at 6 really? Tu'ungasfasi on the bench to cover loose head when the Blues's scrum is abysmal atm. Surely ABs have better props than him.

 

[0tago]

Todd at 6 really? Tu'ungasfasi on the bench to cover loose head when the Blues's scrum is abysmal atm. Surely ABs have better props than him.

Please, since you're such an expert tell me otherwise.

The Blues have one of the better scrums in the competition by the way.

EDIT: Just to elaborate a little more, the Blues have a 92% scrum success rate (5th best in SR) and Tu'ungafasi is great offensively and very solid defensively and Matt Todd is an extremely good player. I don't mind that selection being discussed more, but to question it with such a condescending tone like you know more about NZ rugby than me is funny.

 

[GRD87]

I wouldn't agree with the comment on Warburton being stymied at 6... Warburton IS more effective at 7 as he's a natural Openside. I would agree that all positions need to be first choice in that area, though... And Warburton probably wouldn't start every game were he not captain.

The likes of CJ Stander would be a good shout if he continues to develop up to the Lions Tour.

Number 8 would still be Faletau for me; he's the most well-rounded number 8 playing at the moment and has an immense workrate...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Please, since you're such an expert tell me otherwise.

The Blues have one of the better scrums in the competition by the way.

EDIT: Just to elaborate a little more, the Blues have a 92% scrum success rate (5th best in SR) and Tu'ungafasi is great offensively and very solid defensively and Matt Todd is an extremely good player. I don't mind that selection being discussed more, but to question it with such a condescending tone like you know more about NZ rugby than me is funny.

Actually depends which site you get your stats from

SANZAR site had Blues scrum percentage at 90% which would make them the 6th best in super rugby and behind Canes, Saders and Landers

i would go with
1) Moody
2) Coles
3) Franks
4) Rettalick
5) Whitelock
6) Kaino
7) Cane
8) Read

16) Taylor
17) Crockett
18) Faumuina
19) Tuipulotu/Thomson
20) Dixon

Taking into consideration that A.Savea would be with Sevens.

 

[0tago]

Actually depends which site you get your stats from

SANZAR site had Blues scrum percentage at 90% which would make them the 6th best in super rugby and behind Canes, Saders and Landers

i would go with
1) Moody
2) Coles
3) Franks
4) Rettalick
5) Whitelock
6) Kaino
7) Cane
8) Read

16) Taylor
17) Crockett
18) Faumuina
19) Tuipulotu/Thomson
20) Dixon

Taking into consideration that A.Savea would be with Sevens.

Actually the SANZAR site has them at 91% still 5th, far from the "abysmal" claims.

Crockett is 33 and won't make the next RWC, seems pointless to continue with him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Actually the SANZAR site has them at 91% still 5th, far from the "abysmal" claims.

Crockett is 33 and won't make the next RWC, seems pointless to continue with him.

1) Yep confused them with Chiefs stats, and i didn't say they were abysmal.
2) I was picking the team if it was this year not next world cup which is what you said.

 

[0tago]

1) Yep confused them with Chiefs stats, and i didn't say they were abysmal.
2) I was picking the team if it was this year not next world cup which is what you said.

Fair enough (the abysmal statement was more towards Blindside who wrote him off without exampling other better options), depending on what Hansen's focus will be, building to the distance future or directly to this year and the Lions tour we shall see who the back up looseheads will be. Tu'ungasfasi is still very raw and prone to getting isolated on attack and losing the ball, I think he has a heap of potential and can be worked with a lot to become a world class loose head and that can only come with exposure and game time.

Anyhow I mentioned rotations which are bound to occur in large quantities and chances given rationally and intelligently.

 

[Saint4805]

Does anyone know if Gatland hand picked Rowntree and Andy Farrell last time or was he 'asked' to include them by the higher powers?

I'm curious as to how much say the head coach has in the make up of his coaching team.

I'd like to see Borthwick go if the English forwards keep up their form - would make sense given the relationship and familiarity. Would also like to see Gregor Townsend go - former Lion and head coach of the current Pro12 champions.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Please, since you're such an expert tell me otherwise.

The Blues have one of the better scrums in the competition by the way.

EDIT: Just to elaborate a little more, the Blues have a 92% scrum success rate (5th best in SR) and Tu'ungafasi is great offensively and very solid defensively and Matt Todd is an extremely good player. I don't mind that selection being discussed more, but to question it with such a condescending tone like you know more about NZ rugby than me is funny.

If Hansen never chose Cane and McCaw to start at 6 and 7 he's unlikely to choose Todd and Cane at 6 and 7. Kaino's still first choice at 6 until otherwise. He's always chosen a big, agressive 6 and ABs have plenty who are more likely to be chosen at 6 than Todd: Dixon from what I've seen is outstanding for the Highlanders and Hansen is keeping a close eye on, Brad Shields, Blade Thompson, Luatua if he gets his form going again.

As for Tu'ungafasi, I watched the Blues v Hurricanes and he was appalling. I would have thought Crockett, Manu, Goodes and Graham were ahead of him in the pecking order.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Does anyone know if Gatland hand picked Rowntree and Andy Farrell last time or was he 'asked' to include them by the higher powers?

I'm curious as to how much say the head coach has in the make up of his coaching team.

No he picked them. I read that one of the reasons was to get insight into how they worked before the RWC.

 

[0tago]

If Hansen never chose Cane and McCaw to start at 6 and 7 he's unlikely to choose Todd and Cane at 6 and 7. Kaino's still first choice at 6 until otherwise. He's always chosen a big, agressive 6 and ABs have plenty who are more likely to be chosen at 6 than Todd: Dixon from what I've seen is outstanding for the Highlanders and Hansen is keeping a close eye on, Brad Shields, Blade Thompson, Luatua if he gets his form going again.

As for Tu'ungafasi, I watched the Blues v Hurricanes and he was appalling. I would have thought Crockett, Manu, Goodes and Graham were ahead of him in the pecking order.

I'll take the point about Kaino still being in there as a leader for the Lions tour, but he's nearly run his course, Hansens direction this year and next might just be directly aimed at the Lions tour as well as to be for the distance future to the RWC or both, I really don't know. I just took a few stabs in the dark and picked some form players and educated guesses on what he's liked in the past. But there's no way on earth a bloke like Blade Thompsons is realistically in with a chance, he might get a bench spot a a 10 minute cap when we need to rest someone and leading Wales/Argentina comfortably at the very best.

Goodes has fallen off the pecking order with injury and isn't even getting on the bench for the Canes, will have to see how he fairs when he's back, but the Brumbies destroyed him and Crockett looks pretty average this year and he's only getting older, as I said earlier, it's nonsensical to persist with him when we can begin to work with another prop. But he might make the squad if we need him and his experience for the Lions.

 

[Saint4805]

No he picked them. I read that one of the reasons was to get insight into how they worked before the RWC.

I suppose there is a risk of a conflict of interest arising when the Lions head coach is also head coach of one of the home nations. He clearly has one eye on maintaining his position and keeping the dressing room after the Lions tour which is probably why he will stick with Warburton as captain. Having said that, I think it's important to utilise the coaching talent across the home nations.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I'll take the point about Kaino still being in there as a leader for the Lions tour, but he's nearly run his course, Hansens direction this year and next might just be directly aimed at the Lions tour as well as to be for the distance future to the RWC or both, I really don't know. I just took a few stabs in the dark and picked some form players and educated guesses on what he's liked in the past. But there's no way on earth a bloke like Blade Thompsons is realistically in with a chance, he might get a bench spot a a 10 minute cap when we need to rest someone and leading Wales/Argentina comfortably at the very best.

Goodes has fallen off the pecking order with injury and isn't even getting on the bench for the Canes, will have to see how he fairs when he's back, but the Brumbies destroyed him and Crockett looks pretty average this year and he's only getting older, as I said earlier, it's nonsensical to persist with him when we can begin to work with another prop. But he might make the squad if we need him and his experience for the Lions.

Hansen is looking at Blade Thompson to cover lock/6/8 from the bench according to stuff website alongside Luatua, Dixon and Tuipolutu. Kaino is 33 now; 34 when the Lions tour comes round, which will probably be his last tests in an AB shirt if he lasts that far. I've been impressed with Dixon's all round game and think if he maintains his form, he could well be the next AB no.6. Just can't see Hansen picking Todd to start at 6 going by his previous selections. Even when ABs were beaten at the breakdown in Sydney last year, there was talk that to counter the Pooper he would go for McCaw at 6 and Cane at 7, but it never materialised and he chose Vito at 6.

Goodes is out with concussion at the moment. I think Tu'ungafasi was brought into the AB training camp pre-RWC because ABs were short of options what with both Hurricanes and Highlanders in the final. It's a big jump to think he'll suddenly make the bench; unless he's really ripping it up at Super Rugby level. Crockett angles in a bit a scrum time, but he'll only be 34 come Lions tour, same age as Woodcock was at the RWC. As i said, even if Goodes is not deemed ready, ABs have Manu (injured currently but should be available next June) Mitchell Graham of the Chiefs as alternatives.

 

[0tago]

If Blade Thompson becomes a regular All Black I will eat my boots.

Todd is well ahead of him.