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(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

Forwards as distance runners? Now I've heard everything!

Ruddock is/was reportedly the fastest in the Leinster squad over 1k.

I reckon there'd be some shocks in these events. Players don't always look as fast as they are or get to show off their speed in memorable ways.
 
Marty Moore - Triathlon (dash to the bar, 30 pints or more, sack of pork scratchings)
 
Did Olyy just make a genuine Pintman Losty reference? Oh blessed day.
 
Yea probably, I was rushing it so I just generalised and thought 7s are meant to be fittest.
7s are fittest, but 9s aren't far off, whilst often faster, and carrying less timber. SHs are definitely (IMO) the duracell bunnies of never stopping (well, the good ones are anyway; obviously the likes of youngs has a nice break when he gets to the ball, whilst the Cares of this world prefer sauntering over to the breakdown anyway).

Oh, and I'd take Biggar for the hurdles every day of the week - though he might "accidentally" fall on his head whilst already gesticulating to the ref at each and every hurdle... so maybe not.
 
And the backs....

Scrum-Half
Grieg Laidlaw has been unfortunate to be injured at a vital point in the season. Certainly, his leadership would be valuable, but he isn't quite the quality of the other options available. Conor Murray is perhaps the finest number 9 in world rugby and will be a strong favourite to start the Test Series. His excellent kicking game will be crucial in the territorial battle. Rhys Webb continues to be an imaginative attacking threat, especially in broken field, and his form alone warrants selection. Again, there is an English shootout for the third spot. Danny Care is more similar to Webb, sniping around the fringes and always on the lookout for a gap. There are unlikely to be such spaces to exploit against the All Blacks though, and so the extra control, experience and leadership offered by Ben Youngs gets him on the plane instead.

Fly-Half
Jonny Sexton will start the Test Series at 10. He is a battle-hardened warrior who gets hit time and time again and still keeps his sides moving in the right direction. His goal kicking has also improved over the past 4 years and he would be a fine option if required in this regard. Owen Farrell has matured as a playmaker in the past 12 months to the extent that he could start at either 10 or 12 and be the most influential player on the pitch. His composure under pressure as a goal kicker is second to none and he will likely be the kicker come the 1st Test, though with 12 on his back. With Sexton and Farrell both in the Test side, a third fly half is imperative. George Ford has been influential in a winning England team, but importantly, he has had the comfort of a playmaking 12 next to him. He won't have this in New Zealand, and therefore finds himself heading to Argentina with England instead. It's a close call between Dan Biggar and Finn Russell, but Russell's attacking intent and ability to stand out even in defeat earns him the chance to make a real name for himself this summer.

Centre
Robbie Henshaw has been the form centre of the past 12 months and could play at either 12 or 13 at Test level. He can truck it up if required but also has subtlety and a clever kicking game which can unlock high quality defences. His club and country partner, Garry Ringrose, has been a revelation and could be a real bolter for the Test side at 13. His selection ahead of Jonathan Joseph may raise eyebrows, but Jospeh's best recent performances have come against wide-open Italy and Scotland defences which certainly won't be replicated in New Zealand. Scott Williams didn't have the 6 Nations he needed to be considered and Alex Dunbar unfortunately looks slightly one-dimensional to tour. There's nothing wrong with an inside-centre who is physical and runs straight lines to makes space for others, but if taking one of those, why not a man who has toured successfully before? A man who understands what it takes to be a Lion, who could lead a midweek team by example and be a sounding-board for younger players on tour. Jamie Roberts offers all of this and more, and is worthy of a place on tour with so many options in midfield. Jonathan Davies had a great tour 4 years ago but has had a poor 6 Nations. The flexibility offered by Elliot Daly, and his ability to play in so many different roles couple with his wand of a left boot, makes him a natural choice to tour, and another real option for the 13 shirt come the Test Series.

Wing
George North needs no introduction. If his form gets anywhere near his best, and he comes alive as he did 4 years ago, he will start the Test Series on one wing. The other side will be more challenging. Anthony Watson is a fine athlete, quicker than any other potential tourist, and has the ability and qualities to play at full-back if required. Jack Nowell offers a different dimension to all other wingers. He bounces off tackles like they aren't there, works incredibly selflessly for the team, and is rock-solid in defence. His potential impact on games late on makes him a genuine candidate for the 23 shirt in the Test Series. The final spot is very tricky indeed. Denny Solomona, with another 6 months in the sport, could be a brilliantly maverick choice. Tim Visser and Christian Wade are both incredibly good finishers, but neither has ever consistently delivered at international level. Sean Maitland is strong and tireless, much like Nowell, but does not have the finisher's instinct of others. Chris Ashton is close, very close. He seeks out work, he is an incredible finisher, his defence is actually better than people give him credit for. But he is shaky under the high ball. Ben Smith will be testing the Lions back three all series and therefore it is imperative for the wingers to be strong in this area. It is a long time since a winger has come out of Scotland's good in the air as Tommy Seymour. Not only does he tour, he may well start the Test Series.

Full-Back
Nowell, Watson and Daly at a push, can play at full-back, so only 2 will travel. Mike Brown has lost form and perhaps confidence recently, and Rob Kearney comes with his own injury worries. They will have to wait by the phone in case of a raft of casualties. Stuart Hogg was again a standout player in the 6 Nations, exhilarating in attack and brave from as deep as his own line. His defence will need work if he is to start the Tests but he tours nonetheless. Leigh Halfpenny was superb 4 years ago, but he has only shown patches of that form in the past 2 years and his goal kicking is now less of requirement with the improvement shown by both Farrell and Sexton. Instead, his countryman, Liam Williams must travel in his favoured 15 shirt. His rangy running style, fierce defence and eye for the try-line means he must be considered a real front-runner for the Test spot.

So that's my backs done, please feel free to comment and let me know your thoughts….

In summary:
Murray
Webb
Youngs
Sexton
Farrell
Russell
Henshaw
Ringrose
Roberts
Daly
North
Watson
Nowell
Seymour
Hogg
Williams


To finish, a potential Test 23:
1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Jones (c)
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. B Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Farrell
13. Henshaw
14. Seymour
15. Williams

16. George
17. M Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Kruis
20. O'Mahony
21. Webb
22. Daly
23. Nowell

And a Midweek Massive:
1. Healy
2. Owens
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. J Gray
6. Robshaw
7. Tipuric
8. Haskell
9. Youngs
10. Russell
11. Daly/Nowell
12. Roberts
13. Ringrose
14. Watson
15. Hogg
 
You've completely ruined your reputation of your first and this post by praising Chris Ashton.
 
Fly-Half
Owen Farrell has matured as a playmaker in the past 12 months to the extent that he could start at either 10 or 12 and be the most influential player on the pitch. His composure under pressure as a goal kicker is second to none and he will likely be the kicker come the 1st Test, though with 12 on his back.

George Ford has been influential in a winning England team, but importantly, he has had the comfort of a playmaking 12 next to him. He won't have this in New Zealand,

12. Farrell
On a more serious note, So the argument for not taking Ford is?......I'm saying this not giving a damn about a good midweek side except to keep potential first team replacements fresh. I find taking Farrell and starting him at 12 as Fords best case for going when Sexton breaks down. If you take Farrell as a replacement fly-half only and never intend to play him at inside center then the argument for Ford does disminish.
 
On a more serious note, So the argument for not taking Ford is?......I'm saying this not giving a damn about a good midweek side except to keep potential first team replacements fresh. I find taking Farrell and starting him at 12 as Fords best case for going when Sexton breaks down. If you take Farrell as a replacement fly-half only and never intend to play him at inside center then the argument for Ford does disminish.

I prefer Russell. If Sexton broke down, i'd go:

10. Farrell
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose/Daly

I am not sure what is wrong with what I said re: Ashton? I spoke of the qualities he does have then decided not to take him based on his big weakness. You didn't agree with my assessment of him?

37 players, we are clearly not going to agree on them all!
 
I prefer Russell. If Sexton broke down, i'd go:

10. Farrell
12. Henshaw
13. Ringrose/Daly

I am not sure what is wrong with what I said re: Ashton? I spoke of the qualities he does have then decided not to take him based on his big weakness. You didn't agree with my assessment of him?

37 players, we are clearly not going to agree on them all!

Really don't see what Russell offers that Ford doesn't and Ringrose instead of JJ? Seriously?
 
Really don't see what Russell offers that Ford doesn't and Ringrose instead of JJ? Seriously?

I like both Ford and Russell but think the latter edges it with his ability to break, defend, offload and produce clever kicks over the top. With so many English players likely to make it I can see one or two like Ford losing out on the marginal calls. Gatland praised Russell's performance in Paris for a losing side and he did win 2-3 MOTM awards in the 6N campaign as well as finishing 5th in the overall player of the tournament vote. Having said all that it wouldn't surprise me if Biggar goes given Howley is head attack coach.

JJ being ahead of Ringrose is a no brainer.
 
I like both Ford and Russell but think the latter edges it with his ability to break, defend, offload and produce clever kicks over the top. With so many English players likely to make it I can see one or two like Ford losing out on the marginal calls. Gatland praised Russell's performance in Paris for a losing side and he did win 2-3 MOTM awards in the 6N campaign as well as finishing 5th in the overall player of the tournament vote. Having said all that it wouldn't surprise me if Biggar goes given Howley is head attack coach.

JJ being ahead of Ringrose is a no brainer.

He edges it defence but nothing else, I would say Fords passing ability and kicking out of hand he far better than Russell's and his ability to put people into gaps with his short pop passing. He is targeted by the opposition when hes made to defend but all that does it draw the opposition down his channel and no where else (Think Wales and France). If the opposition are only attacking in one place its a lot easier to defend against.
 
I'll be honest I don't get hype about Russell, I've just never seen him do anything I'd consider exceptional on the rugby field. Hes solid but just no X factor.
 
I honestly don't see Roberts going if he isn't starting for Wales.
 
A Lions Athletics meet would interest. Purely for the sake of boredom, I'll have a go at predictions from my Lions squad.
100m - Watson
200m - Watson
400m - Joseph
800m - Nowell
1500 - Tipuric
5000m - Tipuric
10,000m - Tipuric
110m Hurdles - Williams
400m Hurdles - Williams
4x100 Relay - Watson, Hogg, North, Seymour
4x400 Relay - Joseph, Watson, Hogg, Williams
High Jump - North
Long Jump - North
Triple Jump - North
Shot Put - Furlong
Discus - Itoje
Javelin - Murray

Boring post alert (no change there then....)

Interesting choice of Murray for the javelin, Toby. Most people automatically go for the big guys in all the throws. As it happens Murray is a virtually identical size to Jan Zelezny the WR holder (20 years and non-one's got near it....) and one of the greatest athletes ever. He generally conceded several inches and kilos to his rivals and was a real triumph of speed, technique and timing over power, a lesson we sometimes overlook in rugby.

At school level Itoje did some shot putting to a reasonable, but not stellar, level.
 

Somehow the summary of that clip written below is " Richard Wigglesworth believes his Saracens team-mate Chris Ashton "changed the game" for wingers."
Actually, Ugh Monye basically said that Ashton changed the game when he made the switch to union and then said YOU AGREE RIGHT WIGGY? Then Wigglesworth basically goes ahead ahead and agrees with him. So I'm not really sure why the headline is that Wigglesworth thinks these things. He's obviously not going to contradict Monye even he wanted to, bearing in mind Ashtons his club-mate, but the words were somewhat put in his mouth..
 

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