USA vs All Blacks - 01/11

[davsav93]

I think the USA standout player will be Samu Manoa. That guy in the Jerome Kaino of the USA

 

[welshglory]

I'd say he's even better than Kaino in terms of all round game. He'd be an allblack for sure

 

[davsav93]

in terms of all round game, i agree. Although Kaino occasionally shows that he is not of this earth haha - like in RWC '11, that try saving tackle on Ioane - Anyways, would be good to see Samu Manoa have a good performance in this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiENCntK2A

 

[Adakins]

Can't wait to see this game, just for the atmosphere side of it. I was in Philly when the Maori played USA and that crowd was IMO awesome, now i get to see what kinda of noise 60,000 people can make. Gonna be good to see the boys in black play live again.

 

[thechosenfamily]

As a fan of both rugby and American football I have been advocating for several years that if the popularity of rugby could be raised sufficiently then the USA team could be a major force in World rugby there are several small mountains for them to climb though before that will happen.

1. College football and the NFL command huge audiences and money and will prove difficult to get players to swap to rugby and potentially take huge pay cuts in the professional game. Many of the top SEC colleges do not have rugby teams Alabama, LSU to name two.

2. The few Americans I have spoken to who know rugby think rugby players are nuts, unpadded contact completely freaks them out and there is a video of training at Oklahoma college where a coach goes nots because a tackle is completed in American Football without pads becuase the coach was worried about injuries

All that said the quality they could produce is staggering potentially. A few players just drafted in the last couple of years from college backs this

Jadeveon Clowney DE 6'5" 19 stone and ran and 11.43 100m in 2011
Barkevious Mingo DE 6'4" 17 stone and change and 40yd dash 4.53s
Odell Beckham WR 6'0" 14stone and a 200m time of 22.31 s

And these are three of the top draft choices there are hundreds of athletes every year who do not make the NFL and there is no amateur American Football to speak of so the maths if you convert these athletes to rugby is scary.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's a given.

It doesn't really help them when it comes to their half-backs, inside backs or props though.

 

[thechosenfamily]

That's a given.

It doesn't really help them when it comes to their half-backs, inside backs or props though.

Kicking is the major issue I would agree

Scrum half could be done easily by a quarter back or running back

Fullbacks, wings covered by running backs and wide receivers and centres by running backs and linebackers

Props is also a major issue, but this is a highly technical area for a lot of teams\countries

 

[ratsapprentice]

Scrum half could be done by a QB or RB? Are you joking?

How many international half-backs are there that haven't been playing the game since their early teens?

 

[thechosenfamily]

Scrum half could be done by a QB or RB? Are you joking?

How many international half-backs are there that haven't been playing the game since their early teens?

Obviously you could not switch straight away, of course they need to retrain, I have never stated that this could occur overnight, I am merely point out positions who could potentially do the job

 

[ratsapprentice]

What sort of skills does a typical RB possess that would allow him to be a half-back?

None - I would posit.

It's the area all developing nations struggle with (along with props) because it takes years to develop the instincts and skills to play in those positions.
Taking a College RB or QB who hasn't got an NFL contract and trying to turn them into a FH or SH would take 5+ years of playing from an extremely low level whilst working their way up.
By which point they'd be in their late 20's - then when they finally have a good base of high level experience their career is over.
It's pie in the sky.

This is why it's crucial that you get kids playing the sport at a young age. And relying on converts from other sports will only take you so far.

 

[thechosenfamily]

What sort of skills does a typical RB possess that would allow him to be a half-back?

None - I would posit.

Just for discussion not being argumentative

Danny Care picks up ball at base of scrum looks up, sees gap, runs through it creating the break

An American football running back takes hand off, see's gap in line runs through it.

I know its a basic point but it is one of the skills

It's the area all developing nations struggle with (along with props) because it takes years to develop the instincts and skills to play in those positions.

No argument as I have said in an early post

Taking a College RB or QB who hasn't got an NFL contract and trying to turn them into a FH or SH would take 5+ years of playing from an extremely low level whilst working their way up.
By which point they'd be in their late 20's - then when they finally have a good base of high level experience their career is over.

This is why it's crucial that you get kids playing the sport at a young age. And relying on converts from other sports will only take you so far.

I concede this point so what the American rugby organisation needs to be doing is trying to get into high schools and recruiting at this age which is when most schools rugby starts at least in the UK anyway.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I know its a basic point but it is one of the skills

How many times does a RB pass the ball with AF technique, let alone rugby technique?
SH's do it 40+ times per game.

QB's sometimes run the ball - that doesn't mean that a rugby FB could be a QB.

I'm not being argumentative - it's just your point was a horrendously flawed one! :lol:

 

[thechosenfamily]

How many times does a RB pass the ball with AF technique, let alone rugby technique?
SH's do it 40+ times per game.

QB's sometimes run the ball - that doesn't mean that a rugby FB could be a QB.

I'm not being argumentative - it's just your point was a horrendously flawed one! :lol:

I am not saying it's not flawed! I was answering your question!, you suggested that there was no skill a running back could bring to a half back position, I suggested one.

You have added the extra in after the fact and I will not dispute what you have said.

 

[ratsapprentice]

was no skill a running back could bring to a half back position,

"that would allow him to be a SH"

Manu Tuilagi could pick the ball up and run with it as a 9 - but he wouldn't be able to fulfil the basic fundamental role of a SH.

 

[thechosenfamily]

"that would allow him to be a SH"

Manu Tuilagi could pick the ball up and run with it as a 9 - but he wouldn't be able to fulfil the basic fundamental role of a SH.

Did you fully read my answer???

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yes. I didn't ask what skills a RB has that would be applicable to playing SH - I asked what skills he has which would make him a viable SH.
Being able to run doesn't do that.

 

[thechosenfamily]

Ok shall we agree to disagree then :buddies: and leave it at that, anyway the NRFL thread is much more suited to this discussion

 

[davsav93]

Cory Jane, Savea and Folau would make awesome safeties on the defensive team. Savea and Hosea Gear would be a very good running backs and a I reckon Victor Vito and 22 year old Dan Carter would have made awesome QBs (they can QB throw rugby balls very well). handre pollard as QB too. The tackle breaking back row players would make good fullbacks


francois steyn at QB and as field goal kicker would be insane.

 

[Jaguares]

Kicking is the major issue I would agree

Scrum half could be done easily by a quarter back or running back

Fullbacks, wings covered by running backs and wide receivers and centres by running backs and linebackers

Are u crazy? A player needs at least 10 years to develop the skills of a scrum half, it's a very very technical and very specific job. If your you start playing as scrum half at 10 years, perhaps at 18 or 20 years you'll be at a good level, if you have talent.

I remember a Super Rugby game, Crusaders were attacking and were without scrum-half, Andy Ellis (I'm not sure if it was him) got stuck in a ruck, then Zac Guildford did the scrum half work, he made the most awful pass that I seen in my life. And we're talking about a player who played rugby all his life, the SH position is very very technical. If you have 15 kids, the kid who have more talent passing the ball, that should be the scrum-half:

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

My USA team:

1 Geno Atkins
2 Haloti Ngata
3 Vince Wilfork
4 Rob Gronkowski
5 Jimmy Graham
6 Patrick Willis
7 Vernon Davis
8 Julius Thomas
9 Peyton Manning (c)
10 Stephen Gostkowski
11 Demaryius Thomas
12 Adrian Peterson
13 DeMarco Murray
14 Calvin Johnson
15 Lesean McCoy

USA by 50



With my team that's possible

You missed the one guy would could actually be a beast in Rugby.

WATTTTT