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CeeJay
Guest
Some times it does happen by accident, and it can produce some funny results, but i must admit, if someone mastered it, it could cause serious problems.
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Gay-Guy
Guest
Already it is happening in our comps.....
...w have not banned it as yet as w are trying to find a way to avoid it....however it does look like it will have to be banned soon once we all get too good at pulling it off.
...w have not banned it as yet as w are trying to find a way to avoid it....however it does look like it will have to be banned soon once we all get too good at pulling it off.
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C A Iversen
Guest
Can't think of a way to ban it, as anyone could do it by accident. Prehaps if it happens anymore than twice in a half then the culprit must voluntarily kick it out on the full, so the other person gets a line-out?
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Gay-Guy
Guest
Skilled people will then do it when it is crucial....and probably score from the loose ball. Only need to do it once to win a match if it is tight.
I suppose if we look at it and something crucial happens as a result then we need to make a ruling. Too many times in a tight game when everything is hanging in the balance one of our boys will do it when desperation calls. An example: I am behind by 5 and am running the ball from my line....halfway I meet the fullback and draw and pass as the fullback tackles me......before my support can catch the ball and possibly dodge a bit to avoid the cover, he gets tackled early and the ball goes to ground.....to be toed out by the opposition.........game over.
There have been some classic crucial early tackles in the comps that we have played that have swayed matches.....hard to say at the time whether it was deliberate or an accident.
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woosaah
Guest
cant say that i early tackle on purpose, i know i do early tackles but its just the game being dumb
thats my biggest gripe about the game really
thats my biggest gripe about the game really
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CeeJay
Guest
Early tackles from behind need to be band! The ones I was thinking of were in the backline were you tackle the next reciever early and the ball spills. From behind they are always intentional. This needs to be penalised.
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C A Iversen
Guest
Agreed Ceejay!
Also, in GG's situation, I have a player who does the early tackle from in front like that with the fullback.
I just distract him, use some way of making that in going to draw and pass like this:
(As approaching fullback, whispering) "Annnnnd righhtt abooouut...."
(He thinks I'll pass, I roar) "Now!"
He dives at wrong player, and original guy cuts other way, runs away and scores.
This is just one thing, amongst quite a few wee tricks (like dummies) you can use.
Early tackle is annoying, but original receiver doesn't have to pass.
Also, in GG's situation, I have a player who does the early tackle from in front like that with the fullback.
I just distract him, use some way of making that in going to draw and pass like this:
(As approaching fullback, whispering) "Annnnnd righhtt abooouut...."
(He thinks I'll pass, I roar) "Now!"
He dives at wrong player, and original guy cuts other way, runs away and scores.
This is just one thing, amongst quite a few wee tricks (like dummies) you can use.
Early tackle is annoying, but original receiver doesn't have to pass.
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CeeJay
Guest
Yeah, early tackles from the front can leave a gap in the d. Especially if you use the fullback. Ive mastered the art of dummies, you know, holding the pass button down for ages, and then presing the other way does a real good dummy animation. The ai never falls for it, but humans ar a differnt story.
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Gay-Guy
Guest
The worse early tackle is when you are running across field......normally with the fullback...and you have no one inside to pass it to....just the next guy out....a missout would be too risky of interception as the d-line is up.....
....so when you pass it cos you have been shut down and you are hoping maybe the next guy would have a chance......wham!!!! Your reciever is lying flat on his back and the ball goes to ground because no one was there to catch it.
....so when you pass it cos you have been shut down and you are hoping maybe the next guy would have a chance......wham!!!! Your reciever is lying flat on his back and the ball goes to ground because no one was there to catch it.
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C A Iversen
Guest
In that instance it might be best to make a bee-line for your fowards with the fullback and not pass? Maybe use a skill move to elude the d long enough for you to get into an unisolated position? :huh:
Just trying to find answers to the problems.....
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danny_bullen
Guest
From sounds of it - it would be a issue of deciding if it was unfair or not. Unfortunately if we have decisions like that to be made then people will cry fowl of the decision. I reckon leave the early tackle in - and try and find a gamestyle to avoid it happening. This means that no person is responsible for the policing of it.
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C A Iversen
Guest
An equal threat to both players really?
Sounds like it'll hurt both players if they both do it. There's no reason that we have to pass in that situation, as the other player is lining up your support player.
If you get knocked out of the major cup by this tactic, there's always the Div2 cup!
Sounds like it'll hurt both players if they both do it. There's no reason that we have to pass in that situation, as the other player is lining up your support player.
If you get knocked out of the major cup by this tactic, there's always the Div2 cup!
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CeeJay
Guest
Late tackles from behind hav to be band, the other ones can stay as they can be countered. Late tackles from behind are just not on, ruins lots of great potential tries.
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C A Iversen
Guest
Fair enough. How do we police that though?
If someone dives at the wrong player through just not playing well, how do we say "You did that on purpose, you are now penalised, give the opposition the ball" ?
The only way to be sure (that I can see anyway) that there ever was any intent to make the early tackle, is if it has happened earlier in the same half. Maybe, we should allow it to happen twice?
I know it could happen at crucial points in the match, but once again, how do we prove intent?
It's going to be a hard thing to stop, no doubt. Although maybe we all have to realise that there's no perfect way to stop this tactic.
Lets say we enforce a straight out ban. Imagine that. Someone does it by accident whilst leading 21-0 and is then told that they have just lost the game due to breaching the early tackle rule.
How many witnesses do there need to be? Is a third player going to be match referee? If we get too caught up in the whole "ban this / ban that" thing we may end up ruining the spirit of the competition.
I just think that theres a lot of holes being picked in solutions being offered, but very little in the way of viable alternatives.
What are the answers you all have? Lets see something fair and comprehensive suggested.
I know I'm trying.
If someone dives at the wrong player through just not playing well, how do we say "You did that on purpose, you are now penalised, give the opposition the ball" ?
The only way to be sure (that I can see anyway) that there ever was any intent to make the early tackle, is if it has happened earlier in the same half. Maybe, we should allow it to happen twice?
I know it could happen at crucial points in the match, but once again, how do we prove intent?
It's going to be a hard thing to stop, no doubt. Although maybe we all have to realise that there's no perfect way to stop this tactic.
Lets say we enforce a straight out ban. Imagine that. Someone does it by accident whilst leading 21-0 and is then told that they have just lost the game due to breaching the early tackle rule.
How many witnesses do there need to be? Is a third player going to be match referee? If we get too caught up in the whole "ban this / ban that" thing we may end up ruining the spirit of the competition.
I just think that theres a lot of holes being picked in solutions being offered, but very little in the way of viable alternatives.
What are the answers you all have? Lets see something fair and comprehensive suggested.
I know I'm trying.
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CeeJay
Guest
They dont hav to lose, they will jsut be penalised. Tackling from behind without the ball is banned real rugby, even if you do it by accident, we can just hav the same rules, and a self enforced penalty. If you allow someone one per half or whatever, then they will definatlely do it, and thats not on. I think instant replay could be factored in, in someone crys foul thentwo or three others can act as video refs.
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C A Iversen
Guest
Sounding better, and I suppose you can't really do one from behind by accident.
What sort of penalty Ceejay?
What sort of penalty Ceejay?
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woosaah
Guest
holding ball in ruck that gives a penalty
that gives a penalty
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CeeJay
Guest
That would work, but if the opositon manages to grab it then what? Prehaps they should run backward 20 metres and into touch in order to sim a penalty, and othewise hands in the ruck like woosah said.
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Gay-Guy
Guest
An early tackle can only be executed if you push the dive tackle button. Pushing it early is therefore most of the time a deliberate act of desperation. Even if it is someone going for a spot tackle.....like in real life IF YOU MISTIME IT .......then you are held RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. Rugby rules are rugby rules and claiming it to be accidental does not quite cut it. We also have the safe smother tackle which is never early.
Another factor involved is the fact that it is very hard to do an early dive tackle when someone is offloading on XBox as the computer will not allow anyone to dive until the ball is realised....so early dive tackles on people offloading to someone are harder to do by accident...you have to wait.....time.....aim.....execute.
Replays show in "matrix movie" form exactly what has happened....nothing can be hidden.
I think the penalty should be that the offender takes the ball out of play:
-if the offence is in the attackers 22 then the offender should take the ball out at half way.
-if the offence in is the attackers 22-halfway then the offender should take the ball out on his 22 metre line
-if the offence is anywhere in the offenders own half then the offender should take the ball out on his own 5 metre line.
In regards to a person appealing randomly for an early dive tackle in an attempt to slow the game down when it just looks like a clean hit:
-appeal justified then judgement against the offender as above
-appeal rejected then early tackle penalty rule reversed against the appealer. If offence is on own goaline 3 ruck advantages are given to the other player before the 5 metre take the ball out rule is enforced or even earlier if a third ruck does not eventuate, unless a try or drop goal is scored.
Another factor involved is the fact that it is very hard to do an early dive tackle when someone is offloading on XBox as the computer will not allow anyone to dive until the ball is realised....so early dive tackles on people offloading to someone are harder to do by accident...you have to wait.....time.....aim.....execute.
Replays show in "matrix movie" form exactly what has happened....nothing can be hidden.
I think the penalty should be that the offender takes the ball out of play:
-if the offence is in the attackers 22 then the offender should take the ball out at half way.
-if the offence in is the attackers 22-halfway then the offender should take the ball out on his 22 metre line
-if the offence is anywhere in the offenders own half then the offender should take the ball out on his own 5 metre line.
In regards to a person appealing randomly for an early dive tackle in an attempt to slow the game down when it just looks like a clean hit:
-appeal justified then judgement against the offender as above
-appeal rejected then early tackle penalty rule reversed against the appealer. If offence is on own goaline 3 ruck advantages are given to the other player before the 5 metre take the ball out rule is enforced or even earlier if a third ruck does not eventuate, unless a try or drop goal is scored.
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woosaah
Guest
sounds like a plan gg, looks good i like those alternatives.
right this pay i am going to have to get something to cover my sliding doors as at the moment if we are going to be playing during the day it will be to light to play. I am sorting out my whole lounge and getting it ready and early just to make sure everything is set up for the time and i dont need any last minute purchases. I want to make this torny set up well before the time.
anyone want anything else for the torny? speak up?
chair will be limited to people playing games. mainly want to have as little furnature in the lounge as possible. I must add my chairs arnt all the comfortable either. Hopefully it will be a fine weekend where i can keep my "dining" table outside with a few chairs for the food and stuff.
Also there will be no moving from inside/outside (unless going the long way) during games. as the light could affect some people while they play games.
um... anything else i have missed?
i think my house is full now for the stayers. with GG, CA, Obrien and horton (i am guessing thats who you ment dave) crashing on the floor, or on their respective matresses.
I ahve a single bed downstairs and first dibs gets it. also got a spare air bed and second dibs gets that (though you will have to pump it up cause i am to lazy)
... anything else???
right this pay i am going to have to get something to cover my sliding doors as at the moment if we are going to be playing during the day it will be to light to play. I am sorting out my whole lounge and getting it ready and early just to make sure everything is set up for the time and i dont need any last minute purchases. I want to make this torny set up well before the time.
anyone want anything else for the torny? speak up?
chair will be limited to people playing games. mainly want to have as little furnature in the lounge as possible. I must add my chairs arnt all the comfortable either. Hopefully it will be a fine weekend where i can keep my "dining" table outside with a few chairs for the food and stuff.
Also there will be no moving from inside/outside (unless going the long way) during games. as the light could affect some people while they play games.
um... anything else i have missed?
i think my house is full now for the stayers. with GG, CA, Obrien and horton (i am guessing thats who you ment dave) crashing on the floor, or on their respective matresses.
I ahve a single bed downstairs and first dibs gets it. also got a spare air bed and second dibs gets that (though you will have to pump it up cause i am to lazy)
... anything else???
