Third Test: Australia v British and Irish Lions (06/07/13)

[smartcooky]

he would start for the Hurricanes and the chiefs. That's it.

Really? What about the Rebels, Force & Kings. Are they so over-endowed with great fullbacks that they would pass him up?

You are making the mistake (IMO) of considering incumbent players and then making a qualitative one-on-one comparison with Halfpenny, whereas I'm just looking at HIS skill-set and ability, and deciding whether HIS attributes make him good enough to be a starter in ANY Super Rugby franchise, regardless of who they currently have playing for them

In order words, I am asking the question, "Is this player good enough in his own right to make a Super Rugby team?"

I think he is.

 

[Draggs]

Feeling left out of rugby, here come the Kiwis, making it all about them.
Thanks for the Leigh love, Cook, you might have got yourself another TRFies vote!

 

[smartcooky]

Feeling left out of rugby, here come the Kiwis, making it all about them.
Thanks for the Leigh love, Cook, you might have got yourself another TRFies vote!

Matey, I just think credit ought to be given where credit is due. That out-in-out swerve and pass to put North away for the third try was as good as anything we have seen from Dagg or Ben Smith.

The players knew it too! You watch the background, and you can see while North is scoring the try, the player further back are running to Halfpenny to congratulate him.

If a few of the Kiwis, Aussies and Saffas on this site bothered to watch a bit of the Pro12 occasionally, they would get a better idea of just how good this guy is.

 

[admartian]

Certainly, wasn't trying to nitpick. Suppose it was just telling that you didn't include a NH fullback in the list at all. Understandable though, as you probably mainly watch SH rugby, in the same way I mainly watch NH rugby. Unfortunately haven't the time to watch SH rugby as well (gf already thinks I watch too much ).

Fair enough. But I did include a NH one - Halfpenny.

But you're right, and I certainly wasn't trying to hide that - I merely left that last part (the apologies part) for you guys to add in. Didn't expect it to be about a kiwi "conveniently" forgetting (as opposed to just genuinely just forgetting ) about NH players.

My point - which was lost in the kneejerk attacking of an AB fan - was that there are class fullbacks to, at the very least, serviceable ones (Robinson/Anscombe etc) in world rugby - that if you placed most of them in, wouldn't cost you.

 

[Draggs]

Matey, I just think credit ought to be given where credit is due. That out-in-out swerve and pass to put North away for the third try was as good as anything we have seen from Dagg or Ben Smith.

The players knew it too! You watch the background, and you can see while North is scoring the try, the player further back are running to Halfpenny to congratulate him.

If a few of the Kiwis, Aussies and Saffas on this site bothered to watch a bit of the Pro12 occasionally, they would get a better idea of just how good this guy is.

He is developing very well indeed. I don't like the fact that his goal-kicking is dismissed. The nerve to do that again and again is incredible.
NH-SH will never admit that the other has a player that might just fit in. Daniel Carter, pfft, Biggar is better!

 

[nickdnz]

Haha.

Leigh Halfpenny is definitely the best fullback in the world. Except when it was Kearney last year. And Foden the year before that.

On a serious note he is a very good player - I personally would have gone with Will Genia as player of the series. In NZ if you're part of the back three you need some very good attacking ability as so much of tries are scored through counter attacking - and to be below exceptional in this area means you're probably not going to be an All Black as you waste some of the best attacking opportunities. He's almost the opposite of Charles Piatau - who can attack amazingly but lacks/doesn't use some of those core responsibilities of a fullback.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Really? What about the Rebels, Force & Kings. Are they so over-endowed with great fullbacks that they would pass him up?

You are making the mistake (IMO) of considering incumbent players and then making a qualitative one-on-one comparison with Halfpenny, whereas I'm just looking at HIS skill-set and ability, and deciding whether HIS attributes make him good enough to be a starter in ANY Super Rugby franchise, regardless of who they currently have playing for them

In order words, I am asking the question, "Is this player good enough in his own right to make a Super Rugby team?"

I think he is.

I was obviously talking only about NZ super teams. You have to compare him to available talent otherwise how can you make such a judgement? Teams don't recruit players based solely on the targets abilities, they have to weigh up the stock they already have. Hence why it wouldn't make sense for the Crusaders to recruit Cruden.
I should have multi-quoted cause the post from Dullonien was a great one, and I agree with the lot of it.

 

[dullonien]

I personally would have gone with Will Genia as player of the series.

Apart from the fact that he was pretty poor in the final test.

 

[mochyn]

To win sports personality I think you first need a personality... Either way Halfpenny would never win it. There simply isn't enough coverage of rugby or a large enough fanbase for anyone to care what he did in comparison to other sports. I'm not even sure he would win in Wales.

The main attributes of Leigh Halfpenny are not evident to those who are not familiar to his style of play. His work ethic, his heart, his self effacing attitude. Many words are written by those who do not know him but when the winning Lions captain AWJ says he is ''ICONIC'', one should take note.
He is one of the ''biggest'' rugby players in Wales and inked in for the 2017 Lions

 

[nickdnz]

The main attributes of Leigh Halfpenny are not evident to those who are not familiar to his style of play. His work ethic, his heart, his self effacing attitude. Many words are written by those who do not know him but when the winning Lions captain AWJ says he is ''ICONIC'', one should take note.
He is one of the ''biggest'' rugby players in Wales and inked in for the 2017 Lions

You forget his bravery, his attractiveness and his way with words.

 

[Joseph14]

It's a Welsh trait. Their players are either not good enough for test rugby or the very best in their position in the world, there is no in between

Halfpenny is a top class fullback but he isn't the best in the business. His goal kicking elevates his importance and is the reason he was awarded man of the series. He is a penalty machine.

The main attributes of Leigh Halfpenny are not evident to those who are not familiar to his style of play. His work ethic, his heart, his self effacing attitude. Many words are written by those who do not know him but when the winning Lions captain AWJ says he is ''ICONIC'', one should take note.
He is one of the ''biggest'' rugby players in Wales and inked in for the 2017 Lions

Nobody is inked in for 2017!

We recently watched two British youth sides contest a world junior final. With the Welsh boys going much further than the likes of Halfpenny and Warburton managed to when they were at that age group and the English lads achieving something Mako and co couldn't when they were nippers etc

Whats to say half a dozen of those don't come through over the next 2/3 years and take the British game by storm and force their way in to the reckoning?

 

[austingtir]

Haha.

Leigh Halfpenny is definitely the best fullback in the world. Except when it was Kearney last year. And Foden the year before that.

On a serious note he is a very good player - I personally would have gone with Will Genia as player of the series. In NZ if you're part of the back three you need some very good attacking ability as so much of tries are scored through counter attacking - and to be below exceptional in this area means you're probably not going to be an All Black as you waste some of the best attacking opportunities. He's almost the opposite of Charles Piatau - who can attack amazingly but lacks/doesn't use some of those core responsibilities of a fullback.

Your on a different planet no way was Genia anywhere near player of the series. That dropped ball at the start of the third test is proof of that and his lippy attitude towards the other players in his team. McCaw would of manned up and caught that ball Genia just dropped his bottom lip and sulked for 5 minutes while the lions steamrolled his forward pack!

There is a highlights video of halfpenny on youtube of the pro12 and other bits. Impressive but he's no Ben Smith who has been the best fullback in the world for two or three years now.

The only reason he is not starting is because Dagg is not as good an all rounder as Smith and he's more use to us on the wing atm with Jane out.

Ben Smiths workrate and some of the tries he's scored in the last two years are crazy nobody else in world rugby would of scored some of those tries the guy is a total freak.

There is a highlight video on youtube but its not really current enough as one try the highlanders in particular against the Sharks was totally ridiculous.

 

[nickdnz]

Your on a different planet no way was Genia anywhere near player of the series. That dropped ball at the start of the third test is proof of that and his lippy attitude towards the other players in his team. McCaw would of manned up and caught that ball Genia just dropped his bottom lip and sulked for 5 minutes while the lions steamrolled his forward pack!

There is a highlights video of halfpenny on youtube of the pro12 and other bits. Impressive but he's no Ben Smith who has been the best fullback in the world for two or three years now.

The only reason he is not starting is because Dagg is not as good an all rounder as Smith and he's more use to us on the wing atm with Jane out.

Ben Smiths workrate and some of the tries he's scored in the last two years are crazy nobody else in world rugby would of scored some of those tries the guy is a total freak.

There is a highlight video on youtube but its not really current enough as one try the highlanders in particular against the Sharks was totally ridiculous.

Ben Smith is hardly a freak at scoring tries - I don't think I've ever seen an exceptional try from him. He's the king of the half breaks - he breaks the line regularly and then doesn't have support or the finishing ability to get over the line himself. Not saying he's not very good - but people are overhyping the hell outta him to the point where they start believing the self perpetuated hype. To say he's been the best in the world for two or three years now is just absurd.

One dropped ball means a player isn't any good? Richie McCaw dropped plenty of ball in the June series last year - I think more than any other plyer. It was unfortunate - but I don't think Australia would have been anywhere near as good this series without Will Genia who played most of the series doing the job of a 10 as well as 9.

 

[mochyn]

Is there a link to watching the 3rd test?

 

[Peat]

Haha.

Leigh Halfpenny is definitely the best fullback in the world. Except when it was Kearney last year. And Foden the year before that.

On a serious note he is a very good player - I personally would have gone with Will Genia as player of the series. In NZ if you're part of the back three you need some very good attacking ability as so much of tries are scored through counter attacking - and to be below exceptional in this area means you're probably not going to be an All Black as you waste some of the best attacking opportunities. He's almost the opposite of Charles Piatau - who can attack amazingly but lacks/doesn't use some of those core responsibilities of a fullback.

Even considering the two mistakes that led directly to tries for the Lions for the third test?

I have to say, in general on this argument, that I don't see all of Wales' games and therefore may have missed things, but I can't see Halfpenny as the best full-back in the world as I agree with those who say his attacking game is top notch. It is improving though. There is no reason it should not be amazing, he was a very handy winger first, and in a couple of years, he may well be the best full-back in the game. He's certainly a man who very few teams would sniff at.

Nobody is inked in for 2017!

We recently watched two British youth sides contest a world junior final. With the Welsh boys going much further than the likes of Halfpenny and Warburton managed to when they were at that age group and the English lads achieving something Mako and co couldn't when they were nippers etc

Whats to say half a dozen of those don't come through over the next 2/3 years and take the British game by storm and force their way in to the reckoning?

The standard of the SH age grade teams have dropped dramatically in the last couple of years, and while I'm not ruling out your scenario, I don't think we should expect it. That said, there were very good full-backs on display for both sides, and Stuart Hogg is only a year older than most of those lads. No reason they couldn't challenge Halfpenny - or someone younger, or someone older. There are no guarantees, as you say, to what happens in four years time.

 

[austingtir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqU6pLsvpR8 This is all Ben Smith. Imo this is try of the year so far. Its not all about scoring tries. The amount of work like this Ben smith does is crazy in most games.

How he functions in the most diabolical highlanders team ever is the the most impressive thing about it.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'm sure a Halfpenny tribute video is up on YouTube ...

Is it to late to add this thread to the TRFies?

 

[austingtir]

Ben Smith is hardly a freak at scoring tries - I don't think I've ever seen an exceptional try from him. He's the king of the half breaks - he breaks the line regularly and then doesn't have support or the finishing ability to get over the line himself. Not saying he's not very good - but people are overhyping the hell outta him to the point where they start believing the self perpetuated hype. To say he's been the best in the world for two or three years now is just absurd.

One dropped ball means a player isn't any good? Richie McCaw dropped plenty of ball in the June series last year - I think more than any other plyer. It was unfortunate - but I don't think Australia would have been anywhere near as good this series without Will Genia who played most of the series doing the job of a 10 as well as 9.

Richie doesnt drop them when it really matters thats the difference.

 

[nickdnz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqU6pLsvpR8 This is all Ben Smith. Imo this is try of the year so far. Its not all about scoring tries. The amount of work like this Ben smith does is crazy in most games.

Yeah great try - great work by Ben Smith (and Aaron Smith who I'm sure you will admit is class), but 'this is all' doesn't work when it's a great team try - which wasn't finished off by Ben Smith, which was my point. He doesn't score amazing tries like you suggested - and then went back on with "Its not all about scoring tries". He breaks the line frequently and doesn't always get the support play, which in that occasion he did. But the hyperbole surrounding the guy went from being ironic to deadpan - when I think the reality is he's not achieved the greatness people are so eager to credit him with. Personally I'd like to see him in the All Blacks playing somewhere other than wing - as he tends to make breaks through the middle of the field rather than having raw speed to exploit space on the outside.

Richie doesnt drop them when it really matters thats the difference.

Damn I fogot that. He also P*sses rainbows and farts cinnamon.

 

[austingtir]

Yeah great try - great work by Ben Smith (and Aaron Smith who I'm sure you will admit is class), but 'this is all' doesn't work when it's a great team try - which wasn't finished off by Ben Smith, which was my point. He doesn't score amazing tries like you suggested - and then went back on with "Its not all about scoring tries". He breaks the line frequently and doesn't always get the support play, which in that occasion he did. But the hyperbole surrounding the guy went from being ironic to deadpan - when I think the reality is he's not achieved the greatness people are so eager to credit him with. Personally I'd like to see him in the All Blacks playing somewhere other than wing - as he tends to make breaks through the middle of the field rather than having raw speed to exploit space on the outside.



Damn I fogot that. He also P*sses rainbows and farts cinnamon.

See i dont think its all his fault he is in a rubbish highlanders team. If he got some real time in the AB's with the rest of the class players i honestly think he would goto another level. There is no support for him when he makes a break in that highlanders team.

And Aaron Smith is only made to look good by Ben Smith's shear godlike qualities.