The Ukraine War thread

[Amiga500]

Okay I understand what your getting at.

If cipher updates are required or the system starts failing and you don't have control to be functionally independent of that you've failed at the quite basic procurement level.
Again if your procuring military equipment and allowing information to be classified from yourself you're failing at the procurement.

Have you never worked on an MoD job before?

Failure at procurement appears to be de rigueur!!

 

[General Melchett]

Nah, he stopped well short of any actual defences around Moscow - he basically started behind Russia's defensive lines, drove through some empty countryside for a bit, before pulling into a lay-by.
I'm sure he caused some shockwaves, but shit never got real

I remember experienced military commentators in the media at the time saying he had the capability to do it and how Russia's domestic security had been badly exposed. The Russian army sat back and let them drive through various checkpoints knowing they couldn't stop them. There were even reports that Putin had scarpered. The reason he shat the bed was that he had no plan and maybe no desire to hold on to power. He had just reached the end of his tether with Putin's incompetent defence minister mate.

 

[Amiga500]

Very much like where I work now. The software and hardware are produced with no consultation with customers or technical services who will be maintaining the analysers.

It's quite obvious that neither have been tested properly, in fact, one software update released to specifically fix a particular issue didn't even fix that issue.

Err, you don't work at the same place as me do you?!?

Probably not - we've mostly kids or people who have been here a long time and never learned the right way to do things, and a very small smattering of experienced people who have come in from outside during COVID etc and are constantly aghast at the ineptitude. I'd know if there were someone in here with 20+ years engineering in the RAF.

 

[Amiga500]

Funny you mention wrestlers because I had a thought about that earlier. Trump's cabinet are basically just a bunch of performers - people who have been involved in TV, media and journalism. If the Democrats are serious about winning back power in this surreal world, there is only one man who can lead them to victory.

DTA - Don't Trust Austin America!

 

[Amiga500]

Maybe now in terms of combat experience but in terms of equipment, it still lacks. They are being beaten by Russia due to equipment and manpower shortages. France and Britain could provide enough of both to tip the scales, they certainly outclass large chunks of what Russia is using.

Britain and France don't need to defeat Russia alone, they just need to give Ukraine the boost it needs to push them out.

If other EU nations contributed, even small amounts, it could remove Russia's key advantages.

Yeah, well - probably need to consider the nuances of that.

EU countries could provide a serious boost in airpower.

But on the ground - the war the EU armies are equipped for is the war of the 90s, or anti-insurgency operations of the 00s.
The Ukrainian-Russian war is nothing like either.

There essentially is no fog of war 3km either side of the front. So to significantly influence matters on the ground a whole means of denying airspace to drones would need to be created and deployed. Current world leaders? Ukraine. By a long distance. EU armies would be supplementing and very much under the instruction of Ukrainian commanders till they establish the differences between reality and pre-war doctrine. Don't see that going down well.

 

[McTallshort]

I remember experienced military commentators in the media at the time saying he had the capability to do it and how Russia's domestic security had been badly exposed. The Russian army sat back and let them drive through various checkpoints knowing they couldn't stop them. There were even reports that Putin had scarpered. The reason he shat the bed was that he had no plan and maybe no desire to hold on to power. He had just reached the end of his tether with Putin's incompetent defence minister mate.

Oh he absolutely scarpered. Turned off his private jets tracker and everything. Prigozen also shot down a few Russian planes. The coup was on.

 

[McTallshort]

Yeah, well - probably need to consider the nuances of that.

EU countries could provide a serious boost in airpower.

But on the ground - the war the EU armies are equipped for is the war of the 90s, or anti-insurgency operations of the 00s.
The Ukrainian-Russian war is nothing like either.

There essentially is no fog of war 3km either side of the front. So to significantly influence matters on the ground a whole means of denying airspace to drones would need to be created and deployed. Current world leaders? Ukraine. By a long distance. EU armies would be supplementing and very much under the instruction of Ukrainian commanders till they establish the differences between reality and pre-war doctrine. Don't see that going down well.

The Poles have set up a war school with Ukrainian instructors teaching NATO officers everything they have learnt....but they didn't say thank you apparently

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well,then I invite you both to Ukraine and Russia, you definitely know everything better than your military and can kick everyone out everywhere. Why should French and British soldiers go somewhere if they have Rambo Erasmus and the whole General (!) Melchett

Acting like Britain and France apparently couldn't do anything to Russia whilst Russia has made minimal gains in months and made the greatest gains after months and months preparing and with the most favourable conditions they could hope for, launching the war entirely on their own terms.

It's never really been about who could win a conventional ground war, it's about political will and WMDs. Russia is already struggling, an influx of thousands of fresh, trained soldiers with tons of new equipment, who have been learning from the Ukrainians, would definitely knock them. What more does Russia have to call on that they aren't already? They've tried mercenaries, they've tried foreign soldiers and munitions, they've tried essentially press-ganging foreigners into their armed forces and still struggle. The only remaining step is conscription and shifting the nation to a total war footing. You think many would be willing to support that just to satisfy Putin's ego?

 

[Sour Patch Kid]

Fact Check: Did Europe spend more on Russian oil and gas than Ukraine aid?

President Donald Trump made the claim during his address to Congress.

www.newsweek.com

This highlights the issues in relying on a nation like Russia for your energy though
More money being given to Russia for oil and gas than it is giving in aid to Ukraine. Seems like that makes zero sense and is actually harmful to Ukraine in the end. You (collectively) are funding both sides and actually funding Russia more, then saying we need to keep funding Ukraine. How about stop the flow of money to Russia that they can use to finance the war?

 

[Saintjay]

Not great for the Ukraine.

 

[AlRums]

 

[McTallshort]

Fact Check: Did Europe spend more on Russian oil and gas than Ukraine aid?

President Donald Trump made the claim during his address to Congress.

www.newsweek.com

This highlights the issues in relying on a nation like Russia for your energy though
More money being given to Russia for oil and gas than it is giving in aid to Ukraine. Seems like that makes zero sense and is actually harmful to Ukraine in the end. You (collectively) are funding both sides and actually funding Russia more, then saying we need to keep funding Ukraine. How about stop the flow of money to Russia that they can use to finance the war?

In the UK before the war we got 5% of our energy from Russia..... although we did allow Russians to invest in London and launder their money like it was Christmas