The Ukraine War thread

[TRF_Olyy]

Albanese says Australian government now ‘open to consideration’ of sending troops to Ukraine

Prime minister departs from government’s earlier stance that support for possible ‘coalition of the willing’ was ‘not under consideration’

www.theguardian.com

Also reports that Starmer is going to join Zelensky in the next US talks

 

[General Melchett]

Albanese says Australian government now ‘open to consideration’ of sending troops to Ukraine

Prime minister departs from government’s earlier stance that support for possible ‘coalition of the willing’ was ‘not under consideration’

www.theguardian.com

Also reports that Starmer is going to join Zelensky in the next US talks

Hopefully Usyk will also join them and give Vance a left hook if he acts like a dick again.

 

[Which Tyler]

Hopefully Usyk will also join them and give Vance a left hook if he acts like a dick again.

Trump doesn't respect boxers - not a real sport.
Wrestlers are the ones who should have important government positions, and tonnes of respect.

Could also take a couple of Klitschkos too - maybe loan them to Starmer and Macron

 

[Which Tyler]

Kuleba: Ukraine held 200 rounds of talks with Russia since 2014, but that did not stop Putin

Since 2014, Russia has quickly violated 20 ceasefire agreements reached with Ukraine. â Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

 

[General Melchett]

Trump doesn't respect boxers - not a real sport.
Wrestlers are the ones who should have important government positions, and tonnes of respect.

Could also take a couple of Klitschkos too - maybe loan them to Starmer and Macron

Funny you mention wrestlers because I had a thought about that earlier. Trump's cabinet are basically just a bunch of performers - people who have been involved in TV, media and journalism. If the Democrats are serious about winning back power in this surreal world, there is only one man who can lead them to victory.

 

[ncurd]

Does that not set a really bad precedent, though?
Allow Russia to do whatever it wants, annex whatever land it feels like, and then just....keep it?

I think that's why you security forces in place this time so if they are attacked your bringing in more countries than just one.

Badenoch literally just said can we guarantee peachkeeping forces wouldn't draw us into conflict with Russia. Great idea Kemi what's the point of them then?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I do get at what point do you say enough is enough. But the cost of that will be hundreds of UK soldiers potentially dying

This is what we thought as Hitler rise to power, appease him, let him get away with using violence and he will eventually settle and we avoid our soldiers dying. It ended up turning into one of the most destructive wars in human history.

Reports were that Hitler admitted he would have backed down had France and Britain used force against him earlier, before he became emboldened. Instead our fear of responding led to more harm, not less.

At no point in history has appeasing a violent expansionist ever worked. A peace deal would do absolutely nothing except give Putin time to reorganise and again catch the west "off guard" because nobody could possibly foresee that he would break THIS deal, even though he broke all the others.

There is only 1 thing that will stop Putin and that is him feeling he doesn't have the military capabilities to push what he wants. We cannot simply give him the chance to restart the war whenever he wants on his terms.

 

[Saintjay]

I can think of a few Republicans who deserve the People's Elbow.

 

[McTallshort]

I don't know what the answers is really. It's do we go for a peace resolution now or do we want war now. It's peace at what cost, when I get that there's a very real chance it'll be war later any way.

The problem is the precedent was already set with Crimea etc. Chemical weapons on UK soil.

I do get at what point do you say enough is enough. But the cost of that will be hundreds of UK soldiers potentially dying

Hundreds of UK soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan for a cause I would consider a lot less noble than defending democracy in Europe.

 

[Saintjay]

Hundreds of UK soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan for a cause I would consider a lot less noble than defending democracy in Europe.

Fully aware of that

Still doesn't change the fact like what is happening now the UK government is hoping a deal can reach peace in Ukraine rather than calling for war with Russia. Nobody is currently calling for war.

 

[McTallshort]

Fully aware of that

Still doesn't change the fact like what is happening now the UK government is hoping a deal can reach peace in Ukraine rather than calling for war with Russia. Nobody is currently calling for war.

No but unless Russia thinks there is a risk of war it won't take any notice of any peace agreement

 

[General Melchett]

One thing I'm concerned about is Zelensky being barred from running in a post peace deal election. I wouldn't put it past Trump putting a gun to his head at the last minute and making that a condition. The art of blackmail is in full swing. Ukrainians could be forced to choose between two Putin puppets.

 

[ncurd]

One thing I'm concerned about is Zelensky being barred from running in a post peace deal election. I wouldn't put it past Trump putting a gun to his head at the last minute and making that a condition. The art of blackmail is in full swing. Ukrainians could be forced to choose between two Putin puppets.

I think he wants to stand down post-war anyway or get that impression.

 

[Yulia]

There is only 1 thing that will stop Putin and that is him feeling he doesn't have the military capabilities to push what he wants. We cannot simply give him the chance to restart the war whenever he wants on his terms.

Considering UK/France/etc military potential (including nuclear one), you don't have a capability to stop Putin without the USA and the USA doesn't want to trigger WW3. Otherwise your troops would have been already there
That's not a serious conversation
Most of us here are Armchair force/sofa troops, but noone really wants to die in reality

 

[General Melchett]

I think he wants to stand down post-war anyway or get that impression.

In that case the existing election process must still be respected with no cherry picking of candidates from outside countries. This has to be a red line for Europe.

 

[Reiser99]

Just to be clear, the deal with America is not a peace deal, it is not a ceasefire, it's barely even a promise of a ceasefire. America is simply blackmailing Ukraine for its resources in exchange for some support and quite likely America will still side with Russia.

 

[McTallshort]

Considering UK/France/etc military potential (including nuclear one), you don't have a capability to stop Putin without the USA and the USA doesn't want to trigger WW3. Otherwise your troops would have been already there
That's not a serious conversation
Most of us here are Armchair force/sofa troops, but noone really wants to die in reality

The Ukrainians managed it with limited cold war cast offs and no real air force or navy. It's not the Russian military capabilities I worry about because they are crap it's their willingness to throw the dice if they don't think anyone will do anything about it

 

[Yulia]

Think what you want, and continue to beg Americans to stay with you. Again that's your right to die. Thankfully most of Poles are adequate

 

[Saintjay]

No but unless Russia thinks there is a risk of war it won't take any notice of any peace agreement

I agree any peace agree needs a credible deterrent.

What I don't agree with is as discussed this morning is that we are doing a Chamberlain and appeasing Russia, that it's better to go in and push them back now.

We might have to, but the peace deal should take precedent. I don't like it but I think that will mean Ukraine giving up land. Which i know is still appeasing Russia again.

 

[McTallshort]

I agree any peace agree needs a credible deterrent.

What I don't agree with is as discussed this morning is that we are doing a Chamberlain and appeasing Russia, that it's better to go in and push them back now.

We might have to, but the peace deal should take precedent. I don't like it but I think that will mean Ukraine giving up land. Which i know is still appeasing Russia again.

We are not doing a chamberlain but America is doing a molatov Von Ribbentrop type deal and that's what we really need to worry about