The Ukraine War thread

[BrokenWing]

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Time and time again the MOD have demonstrated they're ******* abysmal at procurement.

 

[ncurd]

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Time and time again the MOD have demonstrated they're ******* abysmal at procurement.

I worked on a program many years ago where we wrote our own requirements.....it was a bloody joke SW was not fit for purpose.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Really depends on if we are talking pushing Russia back or peace keeping.

I thought Poland had already ruled out deploying troops to Ukraine.

On the basis if a shooting match starts they need the military to protect there flank. Saying deploying troops to Ukriane stretched them to thin.

If the Poles start shooting at Russians in Ukraine surely they'd end up shooting them on there own border

Maybe, then - the last I saw them talking about it was before all of this latest stuff kicked off so don't know if anything has changed since America have shaken the hornets nest
Poland has always hated Russia, and with good reason, but I suppose, as you said, moving troops to Ukraine leaves their borders more vulnerable (though I don't think for a second that Russia are capable of fighting on two fronts, especially if one front is a coalition)

 

[Which Tyler]

I think most people would rather take a peace deal that's unpalatable for the Ukraine. Rather than see there's sons and daughters die in some far away land.

Same as those who call for conscription or national service. They love the idea as long as they're not in the call up criteria.

The Neville Chamberlains you mean?
We tried that with Georgia
We tried that with Crimea
Do that with Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Khersonm, and what's next?

Actually, don't answer that, we already know - "next" is the rest of Ukraine, then Transnistria & Moldova. Then Lithuania, either alongside Latvia and Estonia, or with those two forming the following wave. If we keep appeasing - where do you think he'll actually stop? be happy with the previous borders of the USSR? or want to expand up to the Iron Curtain? Why even stop there?

Sometimes, people are willing to fight for things they believe in

 

[BiggusLaddus]

I know. I spent the majority of my 24 years in The RAF working on the E3 Sentry Software Team.

As a less gloomy aside, when I was about 14-15 I had a go on the E3 simulator at RAF Waddington (there for a cadet camp). I had the last turn at landing and the RAF blokes controlling the simulator were getting a bit bored. I think I had 2 engine fires, several tri-stars taking off towards me and a fire engine parked on the runway.

Do they still let kids do that kind of thing? This was back in the mid 90s.

 

[General Melchett]

Starmer still has the ultimate ace up his sleeve. Give us the Ukraine backstop or the state visit is off.

 

[BrokenWing]

As a less gloomy aside, when I was about 14-15 I had a go on the E3 simulator at RAF Waddington (there for a cadet camp). I had the last turn at landing and the RAF blokes controlling the simulator were getting a bit bored. I think I had 2 engine fires, several tri-stars taking off towards me and a fire engine parked on the runway.

Do they still let kids do that kind of thing? This was back in the mid 90s.

The simulator was run by civvy contractors when I was there so I doubt it. We never got a look in.

Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if they did let school kids have a go while giving the actual servicemen on camp the finger. I spent 9 years on first line squadrons and never got a back seat trip in a jet whilst the med centre and mess staff were having weekly flights.

 

[Saintjay]

The Neville Chamberlains you mean?
We tried that with Georgia
We tried that with Crimea
Do that with Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Khersonm, and what's next?

Actually, don't answer that, we already know - "next" is the rest of Ukraine, then Transnistria & Moldova. Then Lithuania, either alongside Latvia and Estonia, or with those two forming the following wave. If we keep appeasing - where do you think he'll actually stop? be happy with the previous borders of the USSR? or want to expand up to the Iron Curtain? Why even stop there?

Sometimes, people are willing to fight for things they believe in

That's why the Uk is working hard for a peace deal that requires security guaranteed. For the best will in the world Ukraine probably isn't getting it's territory back.

Do you really think a war with Russia is a better option?

 

[Yulia]

Russia aren't capable of that, they've shown their military incompetence in Ukraine

If the UK/France sent troops to Ukraine then Poland absolutely would, no doubt in my mind - only have to look at the changes in their military since Russia invaded Ukraine to see that

More than capable with nuclear weapon. UK/France are not Slavs,no deterrent
But anyway noone will send troops there, nothing to discuss tbh

 

[BrokenWing]

I worked on a program many years ago where we wrote our own requirements.....it was a bloody joke SW was not fit for purpose.

Very much like where I work now. The software and hardware are produced with no consultation with customers or technical services who will be maintaining the analysers.

It's quite obvious that neither have been tested properly, in fact, one software update released to specifically fix a particular issue didn't even fix that issue.

 

[Yulia]

Poland has always hated Russia, and with good reason

Most of Poles don't really hate Russians, especially men here (I don't note any hate to myself because I'm Russian for example)
Poles have some serious "historic" claims to Ukraine as well but it doesn't strongly influenced at current relationship with Ukraine
(And Russia and Ukraine also have historic claims to Poland)

 

[Which Tyler]

A] That's why the Uk is working hard for a peace deal that requires security guaranteed.

B] For the best will in the world Ukraine probably isn't getting it's territory back.

C] Do you really think a war with Russia is a better option?

A] Currently a security guarantee isn't being offered (and the UK isn't capable of providing one with more teeth than the Budapest Memorandum had).
If a security guarantee is offered, it's supposed to include boots on the ground - otherwise, it's not a security guarantee. I assume you've heard of "a peacekeeping force" before.

B] See my previous post - the one you quoted when writing this.

C] No
Do you think I suggested it?

 

[McTallshort]

More than capable with nuclear weapon. UK/France are not Slavs,no deterrent
But anyway noone will send troops there, nothing to discuss tbh

How do you know they are capable nuclear weapons?

 

[ncurd]

How do you know they are capable nuclear weapons?

Why would they use them against a nuclear state when they haven't against a non-nuclear?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For the best will in the world Ukraine probably isn't getting it's territory back.

Do you really think a war with Russia is a better option?

Does that not set a really bad precedent, though?
Allow Russia to do whatever it wants, annex whatever land it feels like, and then just....keep it?

 

[McTallshort]

Does that not set a really bad precedent, though?
Allow Russia to do whatever it wants, annex whatever land it feels like, and then just....keep it?

Exactly. We let them do that in 2014 and look what happened 8 years later.

 

[Yulia]

Why would they use them against a nuclear state when they haven't against a non-nuclear?

Because this non-nuclear state is a Slavic state near Russian borders, where most of Russians have relatives. And Putin wouldn't have any logical reason to explain it even to brainwashed part of Russians before they smash him. All his speeches are always about "Ukrainian brothers" who were just foolished by the West and turned against us because of it and "we" are liberating them from their pro-western government/propaganda and don't really touch civilians (there are only some "occasional incidents")
And lots of brainwashed believe it..only when they approached to Kiev, then serious protests started (because Kiev is our "Mother of Rus cities"). Putin knows how far he can go with Russian people in order to keep they calm and not trigger another revolution

 

[General Melchett]

Putin is only firing nukes if he's backed into a corner and on the brink of defeat. He's just a thug and a land grabbing ******* at heart.

Such a shame Preghozin shat the bed on his way to Moscow.

 

[Yulia]

Such a shame Preghozin shat the bed on his way to Moscow.

Prigozhin was also a thug and an ex-prisoner . And he didn't have properties and bank accounts in Europe like state's oligarchy (which currently protects Europe from Russian invasion better than the USA etc taken all together)

 

[Saintjay]

Does that not set a really bad precedent, though?
Allow Russia to do whatever it wants, annex whatever land it feels like, and then just....keep it?

I don't know what the answers is really. It's do we go for a peace resolution now or do we want war now. It's peace at what cost, when I get that there's a very real chance it'll be war later any way.

The problem is the precedent was already set with Crimea etc. Chemical weapons on UK soil.

I do get at what point do you say enough is enough. But the cost of that will be hundreds of UK soldiers potentially dying