THE Sharks V Crusaders!!

[Getofmeland]

Just got back from the game, had a fantastic time, even tho I freezed my arse off in the Commentary Gantry... Damn Sun on the wrong side of the stand... Grrr...

The game itself was amazing, it really looked like both teams went out and played their hearts on their sleeves, a true spetical of the game of Rugby. I actually walked away thinking it is one of the best games of rugby I have witnessed, yes there were errors, but there always will be... The start was shock and awe factor by the Crusaders, they just seemed to walk through, the speed of ball out of hand was amazing to the point where even the TV couldn't pick up some of it, Pure Class, the offloading was again out of the world, alot of teams should watch and learn from both sides.

SBW, is going to be a very big player in the next couple of years, as Todd Blackadder said in the post match press conference, he stepped up today, he said the entire team stepped up today, because playing at Twickenham gave them great pride. For me I would say SBW or Matt Todd, deserved the Man of the Match, Todd put in a world class performance.

The Sharks came out in the second half and took the game completely to Crusaders and the Crusaders didn't know what to do to start with, towards the end it got a bit scrappy, but that was down to nothing being left in the tank...

Would I go and watch either side again, of course, if a Northern Hemisphere team were to play either side, I think they would be given a run for their money, if not white-washed...

Great day for Rugby and hope to see SupeRugby back in the Northern Hemisphere again someday, but not for the reasons they were here today.

Crusaders you did Christchurch Proud today, you did New Zealand Proud. And Sharks you did South Africa Proud.

Thank You to both teams

 

[SavageLez]

Crusaders harpoon the Sharks

I think both teams are pretty well matched but Crusaders have match winners in Carter and SBW. SBW has the best offload in the tackle and bloody lethal.
I reckon the Sharks forwards are stronger than the Crusaders but their backline is a little weak.

If the weather holds up I would say Crusaders by no less than 12. If conditions are bad it is going to be a toughy!

Crusaders Rape Sharks, best rugby match I have seen in ages!

 

[TRF_RC]

What a wonderful game to watch. The attacking prowess from both side was a joy to watch and talk about a game of two halves!
Sharks really didn't pay attention to the scoreboard when they were planning on making their comeback. The only truly sloppy piece of defence I saw all evening was when sharks No.10 took his own kick off and ran half the field to score a try, which was a great piece of jinky running.

I am particularly disgusted at the only piece of filthy play thanks to SBW who should not have stayed on the field. That should have been an instant yellow card. He wasn't carded, however, and went on to make EXACTLY THE SAME ILLEGAL TACKLE further down the field about a minute later. Only this time he missed his intended player and accidentally hit his own man with an illegal shoulder. What a dick.

All in all, a great show piece and I'd like to see a game played in the millennium stadium next time!

 

[Bossco]

Sharks are miles ahead of any other SA team in terms of expansive attacking Rugby, just lacking the backline stars and moves that the Saders have. Their performance today would have beaten any other team in the comp. The Crusaders really struggled to stop them once they got into their 22.

Walsh ruled it well, let the game become a spectacle with only a few minor mistakes. Couldn't have chosen two better teams as an advertisment.

 

[Darwin]

Great game of rugby! The Crusaders deserved to win, but the Sharks certainly made a huge contribution to the game.

The Crusaders dominated in the scrum - this must be a worry for Bok supporters, as the Sharks front row are all current Springboks. Sam Whitelock and Matt Todd were the standout Crusader forwards to me. Most the Crusaders backs looked good. The Carter/SBW combo looked lethal again - hopefully the injury that forced Carter from the field was not too serious. Fruean had his quietest game of the year, but did distribute well. Dagg is looking more dangerous every week, though he did make a few errors this game. It was great to see Guildford back and looking so dangerous - if he can keep this form up throughout the Super Rugby season he could force his way into the RWC squad (though there is a lot of competition on the wing), as he has an uncanny ability to put himself into gaps.

 

[smartcooky]

Straight up shoulder charge,
Looks like he forgot that he didn't pull on his Bulldogs jersey before going onto the pitch - that'd make a highlights reel in League, but as it stands, he should've been off the pitch

This

He should have gone for 10, although I can understand why Walsh may not have sent him, given the spirit in which the game was played. Had it been a ****ly match, Walsh may well have reached into his pocket. Having said that, I am sure any NH referee would have binned him.

SBW has been a very good learner and taking on board new stuff, but now, he will have to do something harder; suppress his RL instinct to shoulder charge.

.....he said the entire team stepped up today, because playing at Twickenham gave them great pride.

True. No matter where a player comes from or who they play for, they would all want to play at the Spiritual Home of Rugby.

 

[gingergenius]

Went to the game, and I had a great time. The first ever Super rugby game I've seen live, and I'm glad the teams didn't change their styles at all. What I noticed most, in what I can assume is a fairly typical S15 game (based on the countless ones I've watched on TV as well) is this:

- the teams don't kick away possession, ever. The only time the ball goes to boot is when they're under severe territorial pressure, or when they're trying a fancy little chip/ crosskick to try and score a try.
- players really do play to advantage. no pointless drop-goals, aimless punts etc. once the ref's arm is out, the ball is moving quickly in every direction and we're off again.
- the frantic nature means the defences must be knackered. there are far more occasions where attackers can run at disorganised defences, and because everything happens so quickly, here we see why so many tackles are missed etc.
- the breakdown doesn't seem to be contested very much at all. I cannot explain this - is it that the defending team don't bother to slow it down/ turn it over? are the attacking team's support runners simply excellent at clearing out? either way, both sides seem to have a constant supply of quick ball with which they can release their backs.
- the skill level on display, in particular offloads and restarts, was vastly superior to anything I've seen up North
- might just have been Walsh being his normal error-prone self, but there seems to be a blind-eye turned towards marginal forward passes and knock-ons - which helps the game flow even more.

that in mind, we have a totally different form of rugby to what we're used to in the Heineken Cup. It's certainly played at a much higher pace, and players have a lot more individual skill. I'm not sure that makes it better, because it lacks the intensity that makes HC rugby so gripping. I'm sure if HC rugby was played at this kind of speed there's no way they could keep up the kind of physical intensity we see up North. So, that leaves two completely different breeds, both very entertaining in their own way. Let's leave the debate at that.

 

[Feicarsinn]

This

He should have gone for 10, although I can understand why Walsh may not have sent him, given the spirit in which the game was played. Had it been a ****ly match, Walsh may well have reached into his pocket. Having said that, I am sure any NH referee would have binned him.

SBW has been a very good learner and taking on board new stuff, but now, he will have to do something harder; suppress his RL instinct to shoulder charge.



True. No matter where a player comes from or who they play for, they would all want to play at the Spiritual Home of Rugby.

I thought no one played in Arms Park anymore

 

[Sam Owen]

All the talking done...just wait for Sunday and we will see. I know The Sharks will come out on top...if they don't i won't post anywhere else, but The Sharks Thread...how's that for a deal...

But its your thread. Just come back and post, everyone gets it wrong now and then.

Good win from the 'Saders, I must admit Im not that surprised that the 'Saders won especially after the Sharks lost to the Chiefs.

 

[TNT88]

Great summary of the differences.

- the teams don't kick away possession, ever. The only time the ball goes to boot is when they're under severe territorial pressure, or when they're trying a fancy little chip/ crosskick to try and score a try.

The good fly halves keep the attack going from anywhere on the pitch until they get to the point where there is nothing on, and kick.

- the breakdown doesn't seem to be contested very much at all. I cannot explain this

(In Australia at least) Most turnovers are won before the ruck has even started (unfortunately). Either because;

- We kill the ball quicker.
- SH players tend to see too much risk (of penalty) going for the turnover after the ruck has formed.
- With the above in mind, if your late to the ruck you should get back in the defense to try and pounce on the next tackle before the ruck forms.

- is it that the defending team don't bother to slow it down/ turn it over? are the attacking team's support runners simply excellent at clearing out? either way, both sides seem to have a constant supply of quick ball with which they can release their backs.

The refs are very strict when it comes to slowing the ball down. They are big on rewarding positive rugby. If the tackler doesn't release the tackled player the defending team usually gets pinged if they try anything from that point on.

Not sure if they do this in the NH?

- might just have been Walsh being his normal error-prone self, but there seems to be a blind-eye turned towards marginal forward passes and knock-ons - which helps the game flow even more.

Generally anything marginal gets let go. Unless its blatantly deliberate. Not sure why though.




I don't have a favorite style of rugby. NH teams know how to make an intense game out of any conditions, while Super XV teams know how to run riot in perfect weather.

 

[Larksea]

I know the whole Idea is that the refs are suposed to favour the attacking team at breakdowns but it hasn't really been happening as much as I think it should.

A prime example is where you have a ruck and the tackled player has not released the ball fast enough but there are also defenders either coming in from the side or not releasing the tackled player IMO in that situation I believe the defending team should be penalised and not the tackled player who has not released. but it doesn't always work out that way infact it can be 50/50. A lot of the time it comes down to the attitude of the players rather than the ref. And too often attacking players are penalised when at the same time the oposition player that is going for the ball was either one of the tacklers and didn't release the tackled player or the entered the ruck from the side.

At the end of the day the most important thing for a ball carrier to do is not get Isolated.

 

[d1e1m]

Went to the game, and I had a great time. The first ever Super rugby game I've seen live, and I'm glad the teams didn't change their styles at all. What I noticed most, in what I can assume is a fairly typical S15 game (based on the countless ones I've watched on TV as well) is this:

- the teams don't kick away possession, ever. The only time the ball goes to boot is when they're under severe territorial pressure, or when they're trying a fancy little chip/ crosskick to try and score a try.
- players really do play to advantage. no pointless drop-goals, aimless punts etc. once the ref's arm is out, the ball is moving quickly in every direction and we're off again.
- the frantic nature means the defences must be knackered. there are far more occasions where attackers can run at disorganised defences, and because everything happens so quickly, here we see why so many tackles are missed etc.
- the breakdown doesn't seem to be contested very much at all. I cannot explain this - is it that the defending team don't bother to slow it down/ turn it over? are the attacking team's support runners simply excellent at clearing out? either way, both sides seem to have a constant supply of quick ball with which they can release their backs.
- the skill level on display, in particular offloads and restarts, was vastly superior to anything I've seen up North
- might just have been Walsh being his normal error-prone self, but there seems to be a blind-eye turned towards marginal forward passes and knock-ons - which helps the game flow even more.

that in mind, we have a totally different form of rugby to what we're used to in the Heineken Cup. It's certainly played at a much higher pace, and players have a lot more individual skill. I'm not sure that makes it better, because it lacks the intensity that makes HC rugby so gripping. I'm sure if HC rugby was played at this kind of speed there's no way they could keep up the kind of physical intensity we see up North. So, that leaves two completely different breeds, both very entertaining in their own way. Let's leave the debate at that.

Its the pace of the game that makes it very difficult to contest the ruck, not that certain teams like the Crusaders, STormers and SHarks do their best do contest but it also means the loosies have a big responsibility to very quick to react, the SH packs have to be a lot more dynamic than their NH counterparts. The defenses and the packs in general have to be able to get around so you see plenty of big men like the Franks and The Beast and Bismark who aren't just strong but have built up quite a bit speed and endurance. You also get men like Read, Todd, Alberts, Vermeulen, etc. that are mobile enough to get around the field in very little time.

Before last year, before the rule clarifications, these two teams would have ground out a win against each other. The requirement that tacklers full release, "show daylight" as Mark Lawrence likes to say, has really opened up the competition to quick ball where rucks are sometimes uncontested in favor of reloading the line. THe Stormers and Reds were the main exponents of that last year and the Crusaders have really taken it to another level with the squad they have.

ON another note, I'm surprised Walsh is a SUper Rugby referee. SBW might get cited for that tackle even if it was a NRL reaction on his part, class player who certainly has stepped up his performances every game along with Freuan. They are the form NZ midfield combo at the moment and I say they have to at least make the RWC squad on this form. Matt TOdd is my MOTM, this kid doesn't know when to stop.

And to Larksea above me, i think thats down to more the inconsistencies between the refs, they really need to get that sorted out.

 

[TNT88]

I know the whole Idea is that the refs are suposed to favour the attacking team at breakdowns but it hasn't really been happening as much as I think it should.

A prime example is where you have a ruck and the tackled player has not released the ball fast enough but there are also defenders either coming in from the side or not releasing the tackled player IMO in that situation I believe the defending team should be penalised and not the tackled player who has not released. but it doesn't always work out that way infact it can be 50/50. A lot of the time it comes down to the attitude of the players rather than the ref. And too often attacking players are penalised when at the same time the oposition player that is going for the ball was either one of the tacklers and didn't release the tackled player or the entered the ruck from the side.

At the end of the day the most important thing for a ball carrier to do is not get Isolated.

Yea, the current system has its downsides. But i have no issue with the current ruling. If you want a turnover, release the tackled player, get to the ball first and stay on your feet. At that point if the defenders come in from the side you get the penalty.

It's not an ideally fair system, but i haven't seen one that works better.

 

[smartcooky]

ON another note, I'm surprised Walsh is a SUper Rugby referee. SBW might get cited for that tackle even if it was a NRL reaction on his part

I'll be very surprised if he is cited, unless the Citing Officer saw something we didn't. A citing can ONLY be for a Red Card offence, and I don't think that was a red card offence..

I know the whole Idea is that the refs are suposed to favour the attacking team at breakdowns but it hasn't really been happening as much as I think it should.

A prime example is where you have a ruck and the tackled player has not released the ball fast enough but there are also defenders either coming in from the side or not releasing the tackled player IMO in that situation I believe the defending team should be penalised and not the tackled player who has not released. but it doesn't always work out that way infact it can be 50/50. A lot of the time it comes down to the attitude of the players rather than the ref. And too often attacking players are penalised when at the same time the oposition player that is going for the ball was either one of the tacklers and didn't release the tackled player or the entered the ruck from the side.

At the end of the day the most important thing for a ball carrier to do is not get Isolated.

It is not so much favouring the attacking team as it is simply making turnovers more difficult. Elite referees are told to manage the breakdown in the following order
1. The tackler releases the tackle player and rolls away
2. The tackler places, passes or pushes the ball and rolls away if possible

If you have both a tackled player not releasing and a tackler not releasing at the same time, the TACKLER is penalised first.

As we discovered in 2009, if turnovers at the tackle are made too easy to get, then coaches will tell players not to take the ball into contact. Instead they kick it down field, and the result is Aerial ping-pong, and we do not want to go back to that.

Its all about getting the balance right.

Remember that if the "Jackler" gets the ball in his hands before a ruck is formed, he does not have to let go when the ruck is called. The call of "no hands" does not apply to him, it applies only to all other players at the ruck.

NOTE: For those unfamiliar with term "Jackler", it is a generic term to describe the first person to play the ball legally after a tackle. This is usually a tackler who has gotten to his feet, but it can be the first arriving player as well.

 

[d1e1m]

While you are legally correct, the refs are sometimes penalising the jackler for no hands in the ruck, but you can't really blame them because at Super and Test level, its a very very fine line. While I think the refs could be a little more consistent in calling the ruck and turnovers, I don't envy them one bit.

EDIT: and many times they miss calling holding on.

Now as to the citing, I wouldn't necessarily want SBW to be cited but for sure Blackadder needs to talk to him about tackling properly cause you can tell that his instinct is to charge in.

 

[Jer1cho]

What an incredible game of rugby. Both teams were just superb. Sharks were really let down by their goal kicking though. If they were only in need of a score to win or tie, I think they would have never given up. Both teams just ran out of gas. It's been a very long time since I watched a game played at that kind of pace. End to end stuff all the time!

Couple of awesome moments for me:

Willem Alberts. This guy is a monster of a man. How he bashed into SBW was just incredible. Williams didn't even try to tackle him. he just stood there and braced himself.

SBW. What can anyone say about him? Best 12 I have seen in a VERY long time. He is going to become a bigger star than Dan Carter in my opinion.

The Beast was AWESOME! How mobile is he for a prop? Brilliant when he came on.

Meyer Bosman changed the game when he moved to 10. The Sharks need to consider starting him there.

Keegan Daniels chase to stop that breakaway try was BRILLIANT! All the players were so tired!!!

All in all though, this Crusaders team is the benchmark for Super Rugby this year. Doesn't look like anybody is going to topple them. I do think that they will lose when they play the Stormers in Cape Town though. The Stormers are far too clinical to allow those flashy tries to be scored against them all the time. They are also far better defensively than any other team in this competition.

WHAT A MATCH!!!!

 

[lucky number 7]

I did not think all the hype about SBW was going to come to much ....but my god the man is phenominal..he has excellent vision knicking in lovely grubbers in the last few minutes , fantastic playmaker , and by **** he can crash it up ...utter brilliance yesterday. As regards the no arms tackle it is not worth a citing Yellow at most however I wouldn't pin it down to him being an inexperienced convert as I have seen dozens of these shots from full blooded union players...

 

[Sparty]

Sharks are miles ahead of any other SA team in terms of expansive attacking Rugby, just lacking the backline stars and moves that the Saders have. Their performance today would have beaten any other team in the comp. The Crusaders really struggled to stop them once they got into their 22.

Walsh ruled it well, let the game become a spectacle with only a few minor mistakes. Couldn't have chosen two better teams as an advertisment.

I think the Stormers might disagree re that statement ! Just needed to find our feet and starting a week later that everyone else did not help us.

Great game of rugby! The Crusaders deserved to win, but the Sharks certainly made a huge contribution to the game.

The Crusaders dominated in the scrum - this must be a worry for Bok supporters, as the Sharks front row are all current Springboks. Sam Whitelock and Matt Todd were the standout Crusader forwards to me. Most the Crusaders backs looked good. The Carter/SBW combo looked lethal again - hopefully the injury that forced Carter from the field was not too serious. Fruean had his quietest game of the year, but did distribute well. Dagg is looking more dangerous every week, though he did make a few errors this game. It was great to see Guildford back and looking so dangerous - if he can keep this form up throughout the Super Rugby season he could force his way into the RWC squad (though there is a lot of competition on the wing), as he has an uncanny ability to put himself into gaps.

Only Bismark is assured of a place in the WC front row , when Beast came on it was a total different story. I dont rate Jannie Du Plesis in the scrums either , he never was a dominating prop , hopefully we will be allowed to pick some European players , Mujati and BJ Botha are much more able props

 

[gingergenius]

yeh Jericho, you're right about Beast changing the game. I've been saying this for a couple of years now, but it's high time John Smit hung up his boots. He was a world class hooker, but when you have du Plessis, who is arguably the best in the world, you don't need anyone else. So they stick him in at prop - and he's a distinctly average prop.

I thought McLeod looked like a useful little scrumhalf in a backline that didn't really get going for the Sharks. It was all about Alberts and his carrying, which was excellent.

Player wise for Crusaders, it's frightening. The pack, even missing McCaw, looks like an international one. The backline the same. We all know about Dan Carter, nothing more needs to be said. I never joined the SBW hype machine, but you cannot deny what he produces every time he plays - it is, in a word, special. Yesterday was no different, and as far as world 12s go the gap between Williams/ Nonu and the rest of them is huge. Shame I didn't get to see too much of Fruean, because he was the guy I was most excited about, but never mind. The back 3 of Guildford, Dagg and Maitland all looked like they could happily slot in to any other side in the world as well... and then I remembered the Janes, Muliainas, Gears, Sivis, Saveas and Rokocokos of this world.

awesome.

 

[Jer1cho]

Frightening indeed. I can't see New Zealand screwing up the World Cup this year. Although, I did think the same about our cricket team, and they managed to spew out their biggest choke ever. An almighty choke. The creme de la creme of chokes. The choke to end all chokes.