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The Leinster thread

  • Thread starter snoopy snoopy dog dog
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That was seriously hard to watch. Some all 'round poor performances with a few exceptions (Fanning did well and Mick McGrath is a workhorse) but sweet and sour Jesus we need rid of Gopperth. The man has been a problem all season and after that game it seems that the most consistent thing about his performance is how it's getting worse.
 
I forgot about the game today... Glad I did from the sounds of it.
 
Thoughts on tonight's game?
For me it's mixed feelings. A win over Ospreys is no small thing and it narrows the gap to the top spot to within a few points.
That said, there's still a ton to work on. Leinster need to stop conceding so many penalties and giving letting teams put points on us. Also there was a fair amount of inaccuracy tonight with dropped passes and the like.
Improvement for sure, but we'll need to up it again to chase the top of the table (not to mention the back-to-back 'Quins games next). Next few PRO12 fixtures look challenging but we should absolutely be looking to win those, and ideally pick up some bonus points while we're at it.
 
Pack was good, we won simply because we are 'hard to beat' and our backs play is disgraceful considering the resources we have... Same old, same old.

If Madigan doesn't start 10 next week I'll cry because Gopperth has been getting consistently worse since arrival.
 
Positives were Jack Conan, Tadhg Furlong and Bryan Byrne who are all developing into fine players.

Negatives are the turgid ****e Matt O'Connor has Leinster playing. Plan A: Kick the ball really far. Plan B: Kick the ball really far.
 
snoopy snoopy dog dog said:
Positives were Jack Conan, Tadhg Furlong and Bryan Byrne who are all developing into fine players.

Negatives are the turgid ****e Matt O'Connor has Leinster playing. Plan A: Kick the ball really far. Plan B: Kick the ball really far.
Click to expand...

Can see Furlong being the bolter for RWC. Was an awful game though and I know Ospreys are good team but they were missing Welsh stars so surely Leinster should've produced a try. For all Schmidts good work over the past few years there MOC is fast bringing them back to Knox days
 
At least David Knox had the backs playing nice rugby! Gary Ella too. What Matt O'Connor has the team serving up is pathetic.

On Furlong, I thought today was his best performance. He's shown flashes of real talent before now but of late has had a few troubles in the scrum. Today he was very good in all aspects. While I don't think he'll push on to make the 2015 World Cup squad, I have very high hopes for him to have a long international career down the line. Super prospect.
 
snoopy snoopy dog dog said:
At least David Knox had the backs playing nice rugby! Gary Ella too. What Matt O'Connor has the team serving up is pathetic.

On Furlong, I thought today was his best performance. He's shown flashes of real talent before now but of late has had a few troubles in the scrum. Today he was very good in all aspects. While I don't think he'll push on to make the 2015 World Cup squad, I have very high hopes for him to have a long international career down the line. Super prospect.
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Still Snoop it's a hell of a lot of good work to be undoing but they're doing it.

Regards Furlong I think Ross is on a rapid decline and Furlong will get ahead of Moore so it'll be big possibility he could make the bolt for RWC.
 
lynam1104 said:
I'm part of the MOC camp but this was nothing to do with him in so far as tactics, its simply the players not turning up. However that might be because they don't believe in what they're supposed to be doing. One thing that I think MOC can be balmed for is the total decline in skills of the Leinster players in his reign is absolutely shocking.
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I don't want to clog up the matchday thread by talking about MOC's performance as coach in general.

I'd say there's a trend now that players are under performing and there's a diminishing of basic skills. Matt O'Connor is responsible for this. Year 1 he was down Jonny Sexton and Isa Nacewa and I felt deserved time and a bit of slack. Year 2 we should be seeing his imprint on the team. That seems to be kick it really high as plan A and kick it really high as plan B. I don't like calling for a person to lose his job but unless O'Connor turns things around sharply, it could be what is best for all concerned.

The players can't be absolved of blame though. Too many seem to be bringing one level of performance at club level and an entirely different level when they move to the international stage. Is it that the coach can't motivate them or something else?
 
snoopy snoopy dog dog said:
I don't want to clog up the matchday thread by talking about MOC's performance as coach in general.

I'd say there's a trend now that players are under performing and there's a diminishing of basic skills. Matt O'Connor is responsible for this. Year 1 he was down Jonny Sexton and Isa Nacewa and I felt deserved time and a bit of slack. Year 2 we should be seeing his imprint on the team. That seems to be kick it really high as plan A and kick it really high as plan B. I don't like calling for a person to lose his job but unless O'Connor turns things around sharply, it could be what is best for all concerned.

The players can't be absolved of blame though. Too many seem to be bringing one level of performance at club level and an entirely different level when they move to the international stage. Is it that the coach can't motivate them or something else?
Click to expand...

I agree with you on MOC and his general plan being absolute gaff, but the Quins game i'm going to say was an under performance on the day and its on them. However I do think theres somthing to the suggestion that MOC can't motivate them and hes presided over a sharp decline of skills.
 
snoopy snoopy dog dog said:
I don't want to clog up the matchday thread by talking about MOC's performance as coach in general.

I'd say there's a trend now that players are under performing and there's a diminishing of basic skills. Matt O'Connor is responsible for this. Year 1 he was down Jonny Sexton and Isa Nacewa and I felt deserved time and a bit of slack. Year 2 we should be seeing his imprint on the team. That seems to be kick it really high as plan A and kick it really high as plan B. I don't like calling for a person to lose his job but unless O'Connor turns things around sharply, it could be what is best for all concerned.

The players can't be absolved of blame though. Too many seem to be bringing one level of performance at club level and an entirely different level when they move to the international stage. Is it that the coach can't motivate them or something else?
Click to expand...

Snoop I think we'd same issue last night. Our guys did well in AI's but seemed exhausted coming back and like ye just couldn't get going.
Regards MOC it's showing that the more the knives are out to get him the more stubborn he is.
 
Man reading about the As youngsters scoring tries for fun makes you wonder why they aren't being given more chances with the senior side. Understandably Plymouth Albion mustn't be a very good team but still. If it was a SH team we'd be seeing these youngsters get more chances.
 
ruggabee said:
Man reading about the As youngsters scoring tries for fun makes you wonder why they aren't being given more chances with the senior side. Understandably Plymouth Albion mustn't be a very good team but still. If it was a SH team we'd be seeing these youngsters get more chances.
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It took Plymouth 9 hours to get here which would understandably mess them up.

It's got nothing to do with sone dour NH idea thing. Connacht and Ulster both play plenty of young players. Five of the starting 15 have played for the senior team at some stage. Then there's Aaron Dundon who isn't a youngster and has played many games for the firsts but has fallen behind 21 year old Bryan Byrne and there is also Royce Burke Flynn at tighthead who is an AIL player there due to injuries. So of the starting XV there's really only 8 young players who haven't got a go. As someone who sees most them pretty regulary there's only three of them who should maybe have been used and that's being a bit generous for the third.
 
big ginger 8 said:
It took Plymouth 9 hours to get here which would understandably mess them up.

It's got nothing to do with sone dour NH idea thing. Connacht and Ulster both play plenty of young players. Five of the starting 15 have played for the senior team at some stage. Then there's Aaron Dundon who isn't a youngster and has played many games for the firsts but has fallen behind 21 year old Bryan Byrne and there is also Royce Burke Flynn at tighthead who is an AIL player there due to injuries. So of the starting XV there's really only 8 young players who haven't got a go. As someone who sees most them pretty regulary there's only three of them who should maybe have been used and that's being a bit generous for the third.
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In the other thread I was going to ask you for some insight into whether there were any youngsters worth giving a go. I agree Leinster have been good with giving young forwards a go but they seem a bit reluctant in giving young backs a go. McGrath should be the substitute 9 by now. Boss is old and there's no amount of experience that can hide his deficiencies. Gopperth was out of form for quite a while and with MOC adamantly playing Madigan at 12 it would have been nice to see Marsh given a few more goes. From the photos I've seen he is physically ready and he seems like a player that can get a back line moving. I'm also of the opinion that we should be trying out someone with untapped potential instead of Fanning. He's solid but we're lacking cutting edge out wide and he isn't going to provide it. We're very lucky Fitzgerald is back from injury. Apart from Madigan, he's the only man in the backs who can provide a significant threat.

Btw, who are the 3 you recommend? Just so I know who to look out for because I don't get to see these games.
 
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ruggabee said:
In the other thread I was going to ask you for some insight into whether there were any youngsters worth giving a go. I agree Leinster have been good with giving young forwards a go but they seem a bit reluctant in giving young backs a go. McGrath should be the substitute 9 by now. Boss is old and there's no amount of experience that can hide his deficiencies. Gopperth was out of form for quite a while and with MOC adamantly playing Madigan at 12 it would have been nice to see Marsh given a few more goes. From the photos I've seen he is physically ready and he seems like a player that can get a back line moving. I'm also of the opinion that we should be trying out someone with untapped potential instead of Fanning. He's solid but we're lacking cutting edge out wide and he isn't going to provide it. We're very lucky Fitzgerald is back from injury. Apart from Madigan, he's the only man in the backs who can provide a significant threat.

Btw, who are the 3 you recommend? Just so I know who to look out for because I don't get to see these games.
Click to expand...

The one thing holding McGrath back is his passing, sort that out and I'd say he'll be on the bench. That's something that comes with practise not gametime.

Of the 8 who haven't played senior rugby I was thinking: Marsh, SCM and Kelleher. That's mostly based on respective situations though.

Going through those who haven't been involved this year.

Ross Moloney (5) - has the skills but is way too light to play senior rugby at lock. Once he bulks up he'll start getting chances I'd say.
Jordan Coughlan (6) - has been messed up by injuries and the attempted conversion to centre. Seems to be back in the backrow now but whether or not that's due to the injury crisis is unclear. Has the talent and athleticism it's just being fit at the right time and taking his chance with the depth we have in the backrow.
Peader Timmins (8) - Smart player but like Moloney fairly undersized and like Coughlan has the problem of our ridiculous depth. Could be waiting a while if he graduates from the academy.
Cathal Marsh (10) - actually forgot he was on the bench for the Treviso match. Has done quiet well at A level and being third choice 10 should have had some gametime while Madigan was away. However from watching him every other week at AIL level there are some things he needs to fix although they may just be down to lack of trust in his relatively week backline.
Sam Coghlan-Murray (11) - obviously there is something about him MO'C doesn't like, got limited time last year and hasn't appeared yet when given our backthree injuries you'd think he would have.
13. Gary Ringrose (13) - the great hope of Irish rugby according to some easily carried away fans. Yeah definitely very talented but still only 19 with another year at 20's and his u20s 6N does leave some question marks. Also a bit undersized for centre by modern standards.
14. Cian Kelleher (14) - his first year in the academy but has been scoring tries for fun at A level. Again because of our injury crisis with wingers he probably should have gotten a go although maybe considering how early in his first year it was it's understandable. IMO looks much more at home on the wing and will eventually get his chance. Very dangerous runner.
15. Billy Dardis (15) - incredibly hyped at school but profile has fallen considerably which is no bad thing. Has a great array of skills and speed. Be very interesting to see how he gets on with the 20s.

Sorry if any of that came across as patronising tried to keep it so that anyone on the forum could read it.
 
big ginger 8 said:
The one thing holding McGrath back is his passing, sort that out and I'd say he'll be on the bench. That's something that comes with practise not gametime.

Of the 8 who haven't played senior rugby I was thinking: Marsh, SCM and Kelleher. That's mostly based on respective situations though.

Going through those who haven't been involved this year.

Ross Moloney (5) - has the skills but is way too light to play senior rugby at lock. Once he bulks up he'll start getting chances I'd say.
Jordan Coughlan (6) - has been messed up by injuries and the attempted conversion to centre. Seems to be back in the backrow now but whether or not that's due to the injury crisis is unclear. Has the talent and athleticism it's just being fit at the right time and taking his chance with the depth we have in the backrow.
Peader Timmins (8) - Smart player but like Moloney fairly undersized and like Coughlan has the problem of our ridiculous depth. Could be waiting a while if he graduates from the academy.
Cathal Marsh (10) - actually forgot he was on the bench for the Treviso match. Has done quiet well at A level and being third choice 10 should have had some gametime while Madigan was away. However from watching him every other week at AIL level there are some things he needs to fix although they may just be down to lack of trust in his relatively week backline.
Sam Coghlan-Murray (11) - obviously there is something about him MO'C doesn't like, got limited time last year and hasn't appeared yet when given our backthree injuries you'd think he would have.
13. Gary Ringrose (13) - the great hope of Irish rugby according to some easily carried away fans. Yeah definitely very talented but still only 19 with another year at 20's and his u20s 6N does leave some question marks. Also a bit undersized for centre by modern standards.
14. Cian Kelleher (14) - his first year in the academy but has been scoring tries for fun at A level. Again because of our injury crisis with wingers he probably should have gotten a go although maybe considering how early in his first year it was it's understandable. IMO looks much more at home on the wing and will eventually get his chance. Very dangerous runner.
15. Billy Dardis (15) - incredibly hyped at school but profile has fallen considerably which is no bad thing. Has a great array of skills and speed. Be very interesting to see how he gets on with the 20s.

Sorry if any of that came across as patronising tried to keep it so that anyone on the forum could read it.
Click to expand...

I agree McGrath's passing isn't up to scratch but I haven't found Boss's delivery to be all that good either.

And wow, thanks, not patronising at all. I appreciate that list considering I don't ever get to see the young players play. I shall now have a read!
 
big ginger 8 said:
The one thing holding McGrath back is his passing, sort that out and I'd say he'll be on the bench. That's something that comes with practise not gametime.

Of the 8 who haven't played senior rugby I was thinking: Marsh, SCM and Kelleher. That's mostly based on respective situations though.

Going through those who haven't been involved this year.

Ross Moloney (5) - has the skills but is way too light to play senior rugby at lock. Once he bulks up he'll start getting chances I'd say.
Jordan Coughlan (6) - has been messed up by injuries and the attempted conversion to centre. Seems to be back in the backrow now but whether or not that's due to the injury crisis is unclear. Has the talent and athleticism it's just being fit at the right time and taking his chance with the depth we have in the backrow.
Peader Timmins (8) - Smart player but like Moloney fairly undersized and like Coughlan has the problem of our ridiculous depth. Could be waiting a while if he graduates from the academy.
Cathal Marsh (10) - actually forgot he was on the bench for the Treviso match. Has done quiet well at A level and being third choice 10 should have had some gametime while Madigan was away. However from watching him every other week at AIL level there are some things he needs to fix although they may just be down to lack of trust in his relatively week backline.
Sam Coghlan-Murray (11) - obviously there is something about him MO'C doesn't like, got limited time last year and hasn't appeared yet when given our backthree injuries you'd think he would have.
13. Gary Ringrose (13) - the great hope of Irish rugby according to some easily carried away fans. Yeah definitely very talented but still only 19 with another year at 20's and his u20s 6N does leave some question marks. Also a bit undersized for centre by modern standards.
14. Cian Kelleher (14) - his first year in the academy but has been scoring tries for fun at A level. Again because of our injury crisis with wingers he probably should have gotten a go although maybe considering how early in his first year it was it's understandable. IMO looks much more at home on the wing and will eventually get his chance. Very dangerous runner.
15. Billy Dardis (15) - incredibly hyped at school but profile has fallen considerably which is no bad thing. Has a great array of skills and speed. Be very interesting to see how he gets on with the 20s.

Sorry if any of that came across as patronising tried to keep it so that anyone on the forum could read it.
Click to expand...
You mean I'm getting carried away in saying King Gary of UCD, destroyer of the NUIG ragball rovers is destined to lift the Webb Ellis Trophy on the 31st of October 2015 and every 4 years after that until 2027?
 

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