The BULLS Thread

[TRF_heineken]

Seeing that there is a Stormers and Sharks thread, I was wondering why there was no Bulls thread also? Until I saw who started the threads...

anyways... 2012 is going to be a very interesting year for the Bulls:

- We were hit the hardest by our legends all retiring after the World Cup.
- We gained some great guys in Johan Sadie, JJ Engelbrecht
- Some older experienced guys returned, like Wilhelm Steenkamp
- We Showed in the Currie Cup we can play expansive rugby like any other team, just think what we could do with our experienced guys back.
- Victor is back!! well sort of... he's now officially the Lineout Coach of the Bulls. That was a big concern for me, and glad the legend will help the young guns in that department.
- Pierre Spies is the new captain, what effect will this have on the world class no.8?

I'm very interested to see what's going to happen with my team, and luckily for me, I will have a good view in their warm-up game end of January in Polokwane vs the Cheetahs.

What do you guys think?

 

[TNT88]

Agree it will be interesting to see Spies take on the leadership role. Some players take the added responsibility and step their game up a level. Others seem to get a bit distracted with all the little sideshows that come with captaincy, and play a quieter role in the team.

How does he go in the Currie Cup as captain?

 

[Gena_ZA]

Sadie and Engelbrecht will do you good, no doubt about that, rest of the backline is very potent,youth and experience, good balance
Synergy in the forwards I think is the main concern, they might gel reasonably well at the start baring the huge names no longer there but what is injuries set in.
The Bulls have very exiting young players coming though but are they going to sit with a captain that plays on his name and presence while brilliant young players like CJ Stander is held back - not sure and hope this is not the case
Arno Botha, Jaques Potgieter & Daniel Adongo should be given early opportunities.

Another dilemma is Morne Steyn, he under performs when his pack is not dominating and he has the most electrifying scrum half next to him - just think what you could achieve with a Lambie or Goosen there, even Lionel Cronje could potentially do more (on average) <- my opinion only. Let's hope Heyneke had a good chat with him and he will play a bit more attacking and stand up in defence then I take my words back.

This is certainly a different looking Bulls team and for some reason I am not overly worried about them under performing, guess time will tell

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Certainly it'll be interesting. Some questions and observations/speculation from my side RE the Bulls.

How will the captaincy effect Spies' performances if at all? If I were a Bulls fan I'd have been pleased had Spies moved abroad and had CJ Stander and Arno Botha slug it out for no.8 spot. Both have allready looked more effective than Spies has looked in ages IMO. But maybe the added responsibility makes him put in a little more effort or something?

Though they've lost Rossouw, Matfield and Botha, in Van der Merwe, Kruger and Steenkamp they have talented back up who though not as experienced or possibly the same class will certainly be hungrier. The loss of leadership might hurt though if Spies can't step up into that role successfully. Botha and Steenkamp are big losses but the Bulls have more than adequate back-up. Again, for me, it's more a question of losing experience (know-how) than talent.

The backs have HUGE potential and have a good mixture of youth and experience. FdP is the only loss in the back and between the form of Hougaard and FdP last year that might not be a bad thing. Question is how much will we see Hougie at 9 and how much will he play at 11 with Vermaak at 9? Certainly the former more than the latter but though Hougaard is an awesome player I think Vermaak is the more assured 9. Hougaard still has to find some depth at 9 and needs to mix it up a bit and try to get more involved in play at 9. His interplay with his captain at 8 and Morne Steyn will be all-important.

That brings me to the only 'weaknesses' I can see which might be a lack of gamebreaking ability at 10 and 15. If the Bulls had signed Viljoen and Goosen from the Cheetahs rather than our WP boys I'd have them up for another ***le before the 1st kick-off. I think Olivier will be in his element though with added pace on the ball and taking on a bit more of a leadership role.


So mostly for me it's a question(s) of will a lack of leadership hurt them and will the team gel and will they do so in time as home advantage really counts a bit extra for the Bulls. Some interesting in-team competition which will make it difficult to settle and get to gel; v/d Merwe/Steenkamp/Kruger, Spies/Stander/Botha, Hougaard/Vermaak, Olivier/Sadie/Venter and the wings? Basson/Engelbrecht/Hougaard. Does the entire team know what they want to do essentially?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Seeing that there is a Stormers and Sharks thread, I was wondering why there was no Bulls thread also? Until I saw who started the threads...

anyways... 2012 is going to be a very interesting year for the Bulls:

- We were hit the hardest by our legends all retiring after the World Cup.
- We gained some great guys in Johan Sadie, JJ Engelbrecht
- Some older experienced guys returned, like Wilhelm Steenkamp
- We Showed in the Currie Cup we can play expansive rugby like any other team, just think what we could do with our experienced guys back.
- Victor is back!! well sort of... he's now officially the Lineout Coach of the Bulls. That was a big concern for me, and glad the legend will help the young guns in that department.
- Pierre Spies is the new captain, what effect will this have on the world class no.8?

I'm very interested to see what's going to happen with my team, and luckily for me, I will have a good view in their warm-up game end of January in Polokwane vs the Cheetahs.

What do you guys think?

Oh, who's that then?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Oh, who's that then?

A young lad called Arno Botha

 

[TRF_heineken]

Frans Ludeke said during the November camps that Hougaard will mainly be played at 9.

With Pine Pienaar, who's a more backline oriented coach now also part of the team, I hope to see Morne Steyn playing more attacking rugby like when he started out. only time will tell on that department.

Arno Botha and CJ Stander was immense in the Currie Cup, and based on their form, I would pick them ahead of Potgieter and Spies.

But, with that said, I just have a feeling that Pierre Spies will take the captaincy in his stride, and have a great season.

My biggest concern is Wynand Can't-pass Olivier... with Sadie next to him, and our wingers, he should really get his passing going. oh and a haircut!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Frans Ludeke said during the November camps that Hougaard will mainly be played at 9.

With Pine Pienaar, who's a more backline oriented coach now also part of the team, I hope to see Morne Steyn playing more attacking rugby like when he started out. only time will tell on that department.

Also hoping to see Hougie at 9 and Steyn add some depth to his game. While I know they said they're going to play Hougaard at 9 I can't help thinking his going to be at 11 just as much what with Vermaak there and Hougaard the best option at 11.

Arno Botha and CJ Stander was immense in the Currie Cup, and based on their form, I would pick them ahead of Potgieter and Spies.

But, with that said, I just have a feeling that Pierre Spies will take the captaincy in his stride, and have a great season.

I'd also add Jaques Potgieter ahead of Stegmann LOL. IMO the 3 young guns are all ahead and in better form than the incumbents in the backrow dept.

My biggest concern is Wynand Can't-pass Olivier... with Sadie next to him, and our wingers, he should really get his passing going. oh and a haircut!

What would you think of shifting Olivier out to 13? I know Sadie played at 13 for the Stormers (while Olivier has been crashing it up at 12 vir donkiejare) but his skillset has always mafe me think he could be good at 12 because though he likes taking on the line he does look to offload which is rare in SA centers. Francois Venter is also a great prospect and you Bulls have a good problem on your hands with finding gametime for all 3.

 

[TRF_heineken]

What would you think of shifting Olivier out to 13? I know Sadie played at 13 for the Stormers (while Olivier has been crashing it up at 12 vir donkiejare) but his skillset has always mafe me think he could be good at 12 because though he likes taking on the line he does look to offload which is rare in SA centers. Francois Venter is also a great prospect and you Bulls have a good problem on your hands with finding gametime for all 3.

If it was up to me, i'd drop Wynand and Play Venter and Sadie at 12 and 13 respectively... But once again, Wynand is the vice-captain and is a quality player...

To play him now at 13 would also not work... every time he plays at 13, it's a total F-up! leave him at 12 and that's it!

Another thing is Kirchner, he's not a bloody centre, and should stay at the back, or give way for other players...

 

[Shosoloza]

I would like to add my 2 cents to the comments above. I personally think the bulls might struggle a bit this year. You just don't replace the caliber of players and experience they've lost overnight.

regarding Spies I also have my doubts. Not as a leader but as a player. Although I am of the opinion that he is overrated, one must also bear in mind that he is a marked man. Take a look when he receives the ball. There always is at least two players immediately onto him. That being said, his work rate around the park is way to low.

Yes!! Look out for Arno Botha this year. He might still be a bit young but I expect him to make abundant use of his opportunity when it comes his way. His head and shoulder above all the other up and coming young loosies in the country. Together with Kolisi of the stormers.

Although I am still sad about the loss of Gerhard vd Heever, there is some young and exciting talent in the back line. But for Pete's sake, is there really no better fullback in Pretoria than Kirchner and Jurgen Visser (who the hell bought him)??

I think our front row will be solid this year. Werner and Dean Greyling matured a lot last season and hopefully Chili can show his true potential now that he is the no 1 hooker.

My major concern for this season is our depth. It always was one of our biggest assets, but suddenly we look a bit thin in that department.

 

[Seaton]

I think the Bulls are pish, my 3 cents worth (keeping up with inflation and all that)

 

[Darwin]

I would like to add my 2 cents to the comments above. I personally think the bulls might struggle a bit this year. You just don't replace the caliber of players and experience they've lost overnight.

regarding Spies I also have my doubts. Not as a leader but as a player. Although I am of the opinion that he is overrated, one must also bear in mind that he is a marked man. Take a look when he receives the ball. There always is at least two players immediately onto him. That being said, his work rate around the park is way to low.

Yes!! Look out for Arno Botha this year. He might still be a bit young but I expect him to make abundant use of his opportunity when it comes his way. His head and shoulder above all the other up and coming young loosies in the country. Together with Kolisi of the stormers.

Although I am still sad about the loss of Gerhard vd Heever, there is some young and exciting talent in the back line. But for Pete's sake, is there really no better fullback in Pretoria than Kirchner and Jurgen Visser (who the hell bought him)??

I think our front row will be solid this year. Werner and Dean Greyling matured a lot last season and hopefully Chili can show his true potential now that he is the no 1 hooker.

My major concern for this season is our depth. It always was one of our biggest assets, but suddenly we look a bit thin in that department.

Welcome to the forum!

I have to agree with almost all of that analysis - while the Bulls look to have a number of young players coming through, I think it will take them a year or two to overcome their massive loss of experience.

Who do people think will be the starting Bulls wings this season? Basson will obviously start on one wing, and Hougaard is a quality wing too (and may get plenty of time there), but who will start when Hougaard is at halfback? Looking through the squad the only wings I saw were Ndungane and Engelbrecht. To me Ndungane is solid (at best), but I haven't seen any thing of Engelbrecht - what is he like as a player?

 

[User1245]

This year is gonna be interesting for the Bulls, I'm so eager for the season to start!
That Bulls backline is looking exciting but could be null and void if Morne Steyn doesn't pitch up offensively.
Spies as captain is a mistake. He is too anonymous in tough matches... When you need your captain most. The Bulls are a bit thin on leaders though.

My 1 cent, taking into account the depreciation in stocks at the Bulls

 

[Gena_ZA]

JJ Engelbrecht for sure, quality wing that did not get enough game time at the Stormers due to Savana Dry (Habana) and Gio Aplon above him. They also prefered Danie Poolman above him last year, still a mystery to me why.
Many rate him as a future Bok and he is generally liked due to his laid back personality and high work rate in game.

JJ Engelbrecht

A product of Grey

School (

Port Elizabeth), JJ Engelbrecht is rated as one of the most promising young talents in South Africa.
A classical wing, Engelbrecht is powerful with ball in hand and blessed with great speed. The former Eastern Province Craven Week and Under-19 star attended Stellenbosch University after school, playing for the famous Maties 1st XV, and is currently a member of the 2010 Western Province Currie Cup squad, having made his debut for the region in 2009.
Still just 21 years old, Engelbrecht has been unlucky with injuries early in his career but is expected now to play a big part for Alistair Coetzee's side in the 2010 Currie Cup competition.
Date of Birth: 22/02/89
Position: Wing
Height: 1.90m
Weight: 91kg
Currently contracted to: Blue Bulls
Show Reel
Rugby Career:
2010: Western Province (Currie Cup Premier Division), Western Province (Under-21 Competition), Western Province (Vodacom Cup)
2009: Western Province (Under-21 Competition), Western Province (Currie Cup Premier Division), Western Province (British & Irish Lions Tour), Maties (Varsity Cup), Western Province (Vodacom Cup)
2008: Western Province (Under-19)
2007: Eastern Province (Under-18 Craven Week)

I feel worse about loosing him that I feel about the loss of Johann Sadie to the Bulls.

Also welcome to the forums Shosoloza! , we have been mates for ages and have many friendly arguments about the Bulls and Stormers over the years.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I have a question regarding this article:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Matfield-Id-play-for-Heyneke-20120126

While it's still being kept hush-hush, we all know that it's 99% certain that Heyneke Meyer will become coach of the Boks.

So then Victor will start playing again, but isn't there a cut off date to announce your squad for the tournament??

 

[Gena_ZA]

Vitcor has too many signed commitments
- SuperSport analyst
- Bulls line out coach, possible Bokke forwards assistant

Doubt very much that he will return and he will only return if Meyer asks him directly.
All a bit media sensationalism if you ask me
Same for Fourie du Preez
John Smit and Victor Matfield rode the rugby gravy train in 2011 because of the incompetence of then Bok coach Peter de Villiers, who lacked leadership and the tactical acumen to manage and coach a team at the highest level. He relied too heavily on senior players past their prime and justified their continued selection based on experience, but their form in 2010 and 2011 was never good enough. <- quoted Mark Keoane and fully agrees with him

I really hope Heyneke sees this as a new era and built on younger players and not the over influential players over their prime.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I really hope Heyneke sees this as a new era and built on younger players and not the over influential players over their prime.

I totally agree with you. Victor is too old now and he wasn't in form last year when he played.

I just love this that guys would rant and rave finally about the Springbok coach, in the positive!! has been a long time since this happened.

But back to the Bulls... Jeandre Kruger is one guy i would also watch out for... he's very fast, has good hands and is a brick of a man...

 

[Shosoloza]

I doubt if Victor will play again. I also doubt if Heyneke would ask him to. It is more realistic that Heyneke would ask him to assist him with the boks in the same capacity that he assist Frans at the Bulls.

One thing we can be asure of and that is that heyneke will not play players because of their past performances and/or reputation. Just go ask Joost what happened when Heyneke took over at the Bulls.

I will not be surprised to see someone like Habana return to his old form under Heyneke, in fact I am willing to put some money down on the fact that we will see a new Habana. Heyneke knows how to bring the best out of a player.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Matfield-quells-comeback-talk-20120126

Looks like Matfield won't be looking to make a come-back under Meyer. So we can jot it down to dodgy and/or desperate sports journalism. Why can't our guys focus on the upcoming 6 Nations and/or do a decent build-up to the Super rugby series rather than keep giving us the shiat they do?

Also, Bryce Lawrence is set to ref in SA after al as well.

I'm glad for one; it means we can show the world that his life isn't in danger (LOL) and hopefully he err's on the side of any SA team for a year or so (to 'make up' for his bad performance during the RWC)

 

[TRF_heineken]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Matfield-quells-comeback-talk-20120126

Looks like Matfield won't be looking to make a come-back under Meyer. So we can jot it down to dodgy and/or desperate sports journalism. Why can't our guys focus on the upcoming 6 Nations and/or do a decent build-up to the Super rugby series rather than keep giving us the shiat they do?

Also, Bryce Lawrence is set to ref in SA after al as well.

I'm glad for one; it means we can show the world that his life isn't in danger (LOL) and hopefully he err's on the side of any SA team for a year or so (to 'make up' for his bad performance during the RWC)

Wow, you had 2 impossible situations in the same sentence there...