Test Match 3: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Auckland)

[Jockstap]

We all know why you like Carter TBH

At least my body is natty

Jeez you had that picture fairly handy mate.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Jeez you had that picture fairly handy mate.

Handy being the key word..............................

I'll see myself out.

 

[munstermuffin]

"Damage the concept of the Lions?" How? And how do past Lions, present and probably future Lions not reflect this view? Warren Glatland - undefeated Lions coach! Give the guy a break, surely?

Most ex guys actually said what I did. If you read the reason you might argue the point constructively

 

[munstermuffin]

Oh, Jaysus ! you just can't let go can you ? He now has now coached a series win in Oz and a battling draw against the best team in the world. You don't have to like all of his decisions (O'Driscoll no doubt) but your constant hatefest for Gatland is tiresome. They did well and he deserves some credit for a successful tour. Look at what happened on the last tour with Woodentop as coach !

Again if you read you'd see I've given credit and said while results were good the other issues weren't. Not sure if you've my constant hatefest imagined but I've mentioned Gatland in a small amount of posts today so again not sure

 

[munstermuffin]

We all know why you like Carter TBH

At least my body is natty

He's got the full package lol

 

[ncurd]

"Damage the concept of the Lions?" How? And how do past Lions, present and probably future Lions not reflect this view? Warren Glatland - undefeated Lions coach! Give the guy a break, surely?

Past players are pretty peeved about the Geography 6. I thought Brian Moore might explode over it....

 

[munstermuffin]

"Damage the concept of the Lions?" How? And how do past Lions, present and probably future Lions not reflect this view? Warren Glatland - undefeated Lions coach! Give the guy a break, surely?

Actually just tonadd in Gatland even recognised how bad it was by refusing to play the guys which is part of my reasoning. He flogged guys and sacrificed a game. He even admitted that as he didn't want to play the 6 after the up roar and only played 2, 1 for a sin bin and 1 for a HIA.

So can I ask which part was. Also Gatland has lost 2 tests and drawn 1 so not undefeated. And if you say series he hasn't won them all and in old days they used to ise aggregate scores for ties so not like for like

 

[The5thOfficial]

Past players are pretty peeved about the Geography 6. I thought Brian Moore might explode over it....

I've been looking at tweets from the whole spectrum, on the whole, Gatland doesn't come out bad. Words like epic, brilliant etc etc repeated time after time. Brian Moore can explode (again) but the result speaks for itself. What happened in 2005, remind me? And quite possibly JD named player of the series, BOOM! Geography lesson over and done with! I know, I know, its deeper than that but guys, chill out!

 

[The5thOfficial]

Actually just tonadd in Gatland even recognised how bad it was by refusing to play the guys which is part of my reasoning. He flogged guys and sacrificed a game. He even admitted that as he didn't want to play the 6 after the up roar and only played 2, 1 for a sin bin and 1 for a HIA.

So can I ask which part was. Also Gatland has lost 2 tests and drawn 1 so not undefeated. And if you say series he hasn't won them all and in old days they used to ise aggregate scores for ties so not like for like

Yeah but you and me both know was talking about 'series' undefeated.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yeah but you and me both know was talking about 'series' undefeated.

Again as I said I acknowledged that while saying old way but a tied series isn't reason to be saying undefeated. And many say we beat a poor Aus team and it was poor the way he went about it. Yes he got results but nobody wuestioned him getting results did they?

And by response you made to Ncurd you obviously don't understand history of Lions and values that are involved in it. Also nobody slated Davies I never went against him once all tour and though he earned spot.
Ad I said it's not just about results.

And you keep mentioning 2005. Not many teams would've beaten that NZ team. It was 1 of best they've ever produced so that tour and this tour can be in no way comparable

 

[corny]

We'd have won if Billy Vunipola had toured.

The NZ'ers are nothing special. Not a patch on the 2005 team anyway. I'd fancy England will have their number when next they meet.

 

[The5thOfficial]

Again as I said I acknowledged that while saying old way but a tied series isn't reason to be saying undefeated. And many say we beat a poor Aus team and it was poor the way he went about it. Yes he got results but nobody wuestioned him getting results did they?

And by response you made to Ncurd you obviously don't understand history of Lions and values that are involved in it. Also nobody slated Davies I never went against him once all tour and though he earned spot.
Ad I said it's not just about results.

And you keep mentioning 2005. Not many teams would've beaten that NZ team. It was 1 of best they've ever produced so that tour and this tour can be in no way comparable

So a draw is a loss, or a defeat? Hmmm! I'm just saying Gatland gets constant criticism and his 'results' aren't really too bad. And now you're saying that I don't understand the history of the Lions and the values and yet, at the end of the day, its all about results. Every single player, AB and Lion that was interviewed after the game today said, it wasn't the 'result' we wanted. No body mentioned history and values! History and values would mean jack, just like they didn't in 2005, in the event of a whist-wash. Given Warren Gatland credit where its due. He's taken Wales AND the Lions out of the mire. As fo the Geography lesson, meh!

 

[The Jones Boy]

Big difference between 2005 and 2017 AB sides was DC. Before this series there were peeps raving in the NZ media - stuff and NZH saying BB was better than DC and would prove it in this series. But looking back on test 2 and 3 it could be said BB failed to win it; whereas DC certainly won that series 12 years ago. DC has the more complete game of the two.

OK
The big difference between the 2005 and 2017 sides is that the 2005 Lions side was rubbish and they had a rubbish coach in Woodward.
The 2017 Lions were much better across the board and they had a much better coach.
Gatland's Lions side created pressure on the All Blacks that the 2005 Lions could never hope to match.
To look at BB and DC outside of that context is simply unfair.

Secondly, at this very early stage of BB's career, he's got a better running game than Carter, thats a big statement because DC was a super running first five but Barrett is another step up, he is faster and harder to tackle. His Garry Owen (up and under) is just as good as DC, his cross field kicking is just as good, but his place kicking is behind DC. That can come in time.
They can both tackle above their weight group.
I used to worry about DC getting crunched but he was remarkably resilient. BB is made of the same bendy stuff.
DC always played alongside the great McCaw.
BB doesn't have that kind of luxury.
He can ignite the backline but BB's backline is not settled or experienced, especially with SBW out of the picture. The cohesion isn't there and it's unfair to compare them when you have virtual debutantes coming into the back line. ALB has what 13? caps, Lamaupe 2, J Barrett 2. Combinations like Nonu and Smith take time and continuity to prepare and develop.
DC rarely if ever had three noobs in his backline.
DC is a legend, but Barrett is made of the same stuff, he just needs his team to catch him up.

The upcoming RC will be an excellent gauge of his ability to overcome theese issues and show his leadership skills.

 

[valley commando]

Must add in the euphoria of it all Gatland doesn't get a free pass. He did really damage the concept of the Lions. And well yes it was a good tour in terms of results but the style of rugby, the way he acted over the call ups and the different standards of treatment was awful. The players get credit but Gatland in my eyes his stock dropped.

Take a scratch side to play the AB's and draw the series, this makes him one of the greatest coaches of his generation.

 

[The5thOfficial]

Take a scratch side to play the AB's and draw the series, this makes him one of the greatest coaches of his generation.

+1 at last some sense.

 

[corny]

Take a scratch side to play the AB's and draw the series, this makes him one of the greatest coaches of his generation.

I'm happy to eat humble pie. I thought he'd bring Wales to NZ to play Warrenball and get thumped. He didn't. He picked a side broadly in line with what i'd pick myself and his side played some super stuff.

From the various vids and conferences and likes he seems to create a good environment for the players too and thats half the battle.

A job well done indeed.

 

[The5thOfficial]

I'm happy to eat humble pie. I thought he'd bring Wales to NZ to play Warrenball and get thumped. He didn't. He picked a side broadly in line with what i'd pick myself and his side played some super stuff.

From the various vids and conferences and likes he seems to create a good environment for the players too and thats half the battle.

A job well done indeed.

Although that "I thought he's bring Wales to NZ to play Warrenball and get thumped" comment hasnt gone unnoticed!

 

[munstermuffin]

+1 at last some sense.

All I will say is wheather I'm right or wrong it's an opinion forum but if it's Valley Commando backing you up I will just leave it as well I won't argue with trolls.

On your longer post. I never disagreed he was unbeaten in series just how others may see it.

Again you keep inventing things but yoy seem to not understand the history and values.
And lastly I'm not sure what you meant by "Wales and Lions" bit but on regular posters some think Gatland has outstayed in Wales so I won't argue anymore as you seem to be like Valley Commando and trolling so best of luck

 

[valley commando]

Actually just tonadd in Gatland even recognised how bad it was by refusing to play the guys which is part of my reasoning. He flogged guys and sacrificed a game. He even admitted that as he didn't want to play the 6 after the up roar and only played 2, 1 for a sin bin and 1 for a HIA.

So can I ask which part was. Also Gatland has lost 2 tests and drawn 1 so not undefeated. And if you say series he hasn't won them all and in old days they used to ise aggregate scores for ties so not like for like

Gatland deserves credit he has preserved the Lions, he has achieved more than any Lions coach since Carwyn James, a scratch side v the AB's and a drawn series, however there are plenty of sour faced losers who would have rather we lost the series (heavily) pretty pathetic really. He has saved the Lions and should be thanked.

 

[munstermuffin]

OK
The big difference between the 2005 and 2017 sides is that the 2005 Lions side was rubbish and they had a rubbish coach in Woodward.
The 2017 Lions were much better across the board and they had a much better coach.
Gatland's Lions side created pressure on the All Blacks that the 2005 Lions could never hope to match.
To look at BB and DC outside of that context is simply unfair.

Secondly, at this very early stage of BB's career, he's got a better running game than Carter, thats a big statement because DC was a super running first five but Barrett is another step up, he is faster and harder to tackle. His Garry Owen (up and under) is just as good as DC, his cross field kicking is just as good, but his place kicking is behind DC. That can come in time.
They can both tackle above their weight group.
I used to worry about DC getting crunched but he was remarkably resilient. BB is made of the same bendy stuff.
DC always played alongside the great McCaw.
BB doesn't have that kind of luxury.
He can ignite the backline but BB's backline is not settled or experienced, especially with SBW out of the picture. The cohesion isn't there and it's unfair to compare them when you have virtual debutantes coming into the back line. ALB has what 13? caps, Lamaupe 2, J Barrett 2. Combinations like Nonu and Smith take time and continuity to prepare and develop.
DC rarely if ever had three noobs in his backline.
DC is a legend, but Barrett is made of the same stuff, he just needs his team to catch him up.

The upcoming RC will be an excellent gauge of his ability to overcome theese issues and show his leadership skills.

That's it Jones Boy. At moment Carter is streets ahead but it's based on thought of Carter at his prime vs BB now. And the factors like teams they played in etc are certainly factors