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Test Match 3: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Auckland)

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Must add in the euphoria of it all Gatland doesn't get a free pass. He did really damage the concept of the Lions. And well yes it was a good tour in terms of results but the style of rugby, the way he acted over the call ups and the different standards of treatment was awful. The players get credit but Gatland in my eyes his stock dropped.
 
Really?
If you go back to the start of the series and asked the Lions fans if they would take a win, loss and draw they would have bitten your hand off.
 
The Jones Boy said:
Really?
If you go back to the start of the series and asked the Lions fans if they would take a win, loss and draw they would have bitten your hand off.
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If that was aimed at me. Yes but as I said results were good. Other stuff I mentioned were wrong. Equally (and people will disagree) I seen a weaker New Zealand team than I've seen in years and think they were there for taking in last 2 games if it was coached right. I genuinely think an Eddie Jones England or Joe Schmidt Ireland would've put All Black to sword. Also a different coach may have achieve more
 
munstermuffin said:
If that was aimed at me. Yes but as I said results were good. Other stuff I mentioned were wrong. Equally (and people will disagree) I seen a weaker New Zealand team than I've seen in years and think they were there for taking in last 2 games if it was coached right. I genuinely think an Eddie Jones England or Joe Schmidt Ireland would've put All Black to sword. Also a different coach may have achieve more
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Pressure causes mistakes in genuinely competitive test matches, so the "weaker New Zealand" you mention may have performed in that manner due to a multitude of things that the Lions 'might' be doing. It's all conjecture at the end of the day but going in to the series I would have picked an All Black team at home versus either Ireland or England to win 3 nil, I've seen nothing conclusive to change that really.
 
ncurd said:
Yup I think many people are thinking this NZ side is of the quality they were 2-12 years ago....i think it's become obvious they are not that good anymore.
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If you put Dane Coles and Ben Smith back in there it changes a lot, then SBW in the midfield, it can dominate anyone.
However, when you lose 800 caps in one go it is a serious setback to development.
It takes time for the young guns to bed themselves in and you have to try quite a few options before you find those that work.
Jordie barrett is looking like a real talent. Codie Taylor looked pretty comfortable at hooker.
Ardie Savea is a work in progress but his basic attributes are excellent.
Sam Cane is not Richie McCaw, but he does put in a shift.
Laumape is a greenhorn and the jury is out on him. His attacking looks sharp but his defence may be a concern as he is a little fella.
Hansen went for youth and it it didn't quite come off but it didn't fall apart either.
Everyone of the Lions, including every Lions player on the bench has caps and top tier experience.
Laumape and J.Barrett were well short in that dept.
It's not just the inexperience, it's the lack of gel and cohesion in their unit moves and defensive tracks.
The 4 nations beckons and that will be a fabulous development opportunity for the young guys.
 
ncurd said:
Yup I think many people are thinking this NZ side is of the quality they were 2-12 years ago....i think it's become obvious they are not that good anymore.
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Big difference between 2005 and 2017 AB sides was DC. Before this series there were peeps raving in the NZ media - stuff and NZH saying BB was better than DC and would prove it in this series. But looking back on test 2 and 3 it could be said BB failed to win it; whereas DC certainly won that series 12 years ago. DC has the more complete game of the two.
 
bushytop said:
Pressure causes mistakes in genuinely competitive test matches, so the "weaker New Zealand" you mention may have performed in that manner due to a multitude of things that the Lions 'might' be doing. It's all conjecture at the end of the day but going in to the series I would have picked an All Black team at home versus either Ireland or England to win 3 nil, I've seen nothing conclusive to change that really.
Click to expand...
I guess in a way we will disagree. Before I used to see NZ as untouchable but ha ving watched them in November and this summer I'd have to say no they ain't as good or as scary as before. I'd fancy England strongly and Ireland to a smaller extent to get at least 1 win out of 3. Yes if Smith and Cole played it'd improve it but on what I seen I think either the chasing pack is catching up or NZ are falling back closer. Agreed some mistakes were due pressure but there was alot of unforced errors and poor decisions too.
 
The_Blindside said:
Big difference between 2005 and 2017 AB sides was DC. Before this series there were peeps raving in the NZ media - stuff and NZH saying BB was better than DC and would prove it in this series. But looking back on test 2 and 3 it could be said BB failed to win it; whereas DC certainly won that series 12 years ago. DC has the more complete game of the two.
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BB is a good player but he's not in same level as Carter sorry. Carter and Wilkinson are 2 of best 10s to have played game in my book
 
munstermuffin said:
I guess in a way we will disagree. Before I used to see NZ as untouchable but ha ving watched them in November and this summer I'd have to say no they ain't as good or as scary as before. I'd fancy England strongly and Ireland to a smaller extent to get at least 1 win out of 3. Yes if Smith and Cole played it'd improve it but on what I seen I think either the chasing pack is catching up or NZ are falling back closer. Agreed some mistakes were due pressure but there was alot of unforced errors and poor decisions too.
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Fair... the great thing is we'll quickly find out about the quality of this current NZ iteration. In a year or two we will be much more able to decide the quality of this current Lions team.
 
bushytop said:
Fair... the great thing is we'll quickly find out about the quality of this current NZ iteration. In a year or two we will be much more able to decide the quality of this current Lions team.
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The problem is as other have said this NZ team will be better in two years as they will have time to have developed into a better team in 2 years. The only way the gauge them is against everyone else they will play this year. Problem is the top 2 other teams to give them a run for their money are not playing them this year.
 
bushytop said:
Fair... the great thing is we'll quickly find out about the quality of this current NZ iteration. In a year or two we will be much more able to decide the quality of this current Lions team.
Click to expand...
Well as you can gauge from here alot think the Lions could've played better if coached differently. Gatland got a tie but could've been a win. As for NZ it's hard to say if we can gauge them yet. The Rugby Championship wont tell much as Australia are poor and SA are improving but not there
 
munstermuffin said:
Must add in the euphoria of it all Gatland doesn't get a free pass. He did really damage the concept of the Lions. And well yes it was a good tour in terms of results but the style of rugby, the way he acted over the call ups and the different standards of treatment was awful. The players get credit but Gatland in my eyes his stock dropped.
Click to expand...

"Damage the concept of the Lions?" How? And how do past Lions, present and probably future Lions not reflect this view? Warren Glatland - undefeated Lions coach! Give the guy a break, surely?
 
munstermuffin said:
Must add in the euphoria of it all Gatland doesn't get a free pass. He did really damage the concept of the Lions. And well yes it was a good tour in terms of results but the style of rugby, the way he acted over the call ups and the different standards of treatment was awful. The players get credit but Gatland in my eyes his stock dropped.
Click to expand...

Oh, Jaysus ! you just can't let go can you ? He now has now coached a series win in Oz and a battling draw against the best team in the world. You don't have to like all of his decisions (O'Driscoll no doubt) but your constant hatefest for Gatland is tiresome. They did well and he deserves some credit for a successful tour. Look at what happened on the last tour with Woodentop as coach !
 
munstermuffin said:
BB is a good player but he's not in same level as Carter sorry. Carter and Wilkinson are 2 of best 10s to have played game in my book
Click to expand...

We all know why you like Carter TBH

jockey-underwear-daniel-carter-04.jpg


At least my body is natty :(
 
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