Test Match 3: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Auckland)

[munstermuffin]

He won't. He's cleared of concussion but won't be playing for the All Blacks any time soon, just helping the lads with training and giving them some handy advice. His inner ear problem is still there and until he sorts it out, he won't be match fit. He can theoretically play against the Lions this Saturday but you don't want a player (best fullback in the World or not) to get on the field while feeling dizzy, struggling to maintain balance and having double vision. I think this is why he's been poor by his standards under the high ball during the last test he played. Not being able to maintain balance during such a physical test is also incredibly dangerous for himself, we better wait until he's fully fit.

What is cause/root of all this? Was it too many concussions like Sexton in past or what?

 

[Penne Rara]

What is cause/root of all this? Was it too many concussions like Sexton in past or what?

Fell on his head after a high-ball contest against Damian Mckenzie during the early stages of Super Rugby this year. He bumped his head hard against the turf and passed out for several minutes, which may be the reason why he's got this inner ear condition now. Hopefully everything's going to be alright for him.

He also failed a concussion test after a head knock against the Crusaders like, two months ago or so

Well, he's got a rather long concussion record actually, got concussed several times during the past five years. So he better be cautious before it worsens

 

[munstermuffin]

Fell on his head after a high-ball contest against Damian Mckenzie during the early stages of Super Rugby this year. He bumped his head hard against the turf and passed out for several minutes, which may be the reason why he's got this inner ear condition now. Hopefully everything's going to be alright for him.

He also failed a concussion test after a head knock against the Crusaders like, two months ago or so

Well, he's got a rather long concussion record actually, got concussed several times during the past five years. So he better be cautious before it worsens

May be best so to take a 6 month break. Is naturally a worldclass talent so hopefully we will get to see him fully recovered and flying it again soon.
Now that you mention it I remember seeing that contest with Mckenzie and it wasn't nice.

 

[Truth]

naholo was not available. he was concussed badly in the last game.

Meanwhile SOB, who put Naholo out for this game, gets to play

 

[Ground We Won]

You dont change a winning team...a team that almost lost against a 14 man team in the rain. Against a team that left 9 points out there and couldnt play a wide game cos of the weather...but yeh perfect team

He better use the damn bench this week, i thought he didnt use the bench last week to keep players fresh to give them a start and best chance this week or something. Byt i just dont get this not using the bench.

Gats and howley next NZ coaches prob drop NZ to 5th in world rankijgs within a year haha

You don't have to use your bench. Rugby coaches are prone to emptying their benches at 60 minutes because that's just apparently what you're meant to do. They do so without giving much tactical thought into it or reading the game and what it needs.

Sam Cane came off last week and Whitelock and two juniors came on Barrett and Savea and immediately our defense suffered and we went on to lose the game. Those two should have stayed on. They are two leaders and Sam Cane was having an outstanding game.. I believe those two subs cost us the game more than Barretts kicking and taking Kaino off was the wrong move.

For me Hansen has been poor this test series. Which has really really surprised me.

 

[ncurd]

Someone pull ut the quote where Hansen says Nahalo passed his HIA and could of played...

Anyway previous match, there's a ref thread, SOB is playing, get over it.

NOTE to self: Must have fit when player accidentally injures another player....


On the Lions future, I love the Lions I'd like to go on a tour someday (probably NZ or Aus). The last two tours have sapped my entuisiasm somewhat as ultimately the Lions are an exhabition team. That should mean picking the best players (some were not even selected) and trying to play the most exciting brand of rugby those players can manage.

Instead we've been given Wales+ where the turgid gameplan of the Welsh side is replicated and augmented into something that has the slimmest of chances of beating a SH side. Last time we scrapped by an Aus side that England were beating regularly. This time we haven't got close to an ABs side Ireland only just beat and England would like have a decent shot of a good result against (we have nothing to base that assumption on).
Overall the Lions should feel as good as the top Home Nation side it certainly hasn't felt that way for the past two tours.


...maybe its because these are the only chances the Welsh think they've got for beating SH sides and are not use to it like the rest of us....

 

[Groundhog]

So glad to see Sean O'Brien bringing back the dog and top form. Didn't think he'd ever be the same or indeed have an extended uninjured spell in his career after his long lay off. He's really looked incredibly well rounded on this tour though.

 

[ncurd]

You don't have to use your bench. Rugby coaches are prone to emptying their benches at 60 minutes because that's just apparently what you're meant to do. They do so without giving much tactical thought into it or reading the game and what it needs.

If you want to see excellent use of the bench to finish games look at Jones for England. He has intent to use his bench but he has the gameplan on how those players should be playing that suits them. Rather than a replacement to fit into the gameplan that the person who just left the field was playing.

Its a stark contrast from predestined substitutions of the Lancaster era where we'd pull guys regardless of how they were playing and determined points and hope the new guy as he was fresher would do the same job.

Tactical substitutions can greatly enhance a side but I think jones and his concept of 'finshers' is the only one really making hay with it at international level.

 

[Nubiwan]

Your estimation of the northern hemisphere players ability like many other critics is over ambitious. I don't think any coach would be able to get the Home nations players to play as a cohesive attacking unit due to a) the players simply not having good enough skills b) not enough time to build combinations. The 6 nations is all based on attrition, a few examples in club rugby really doesn't change that fact as much as some like the pretend. I'm pretty sure most coaches would have reverted to something similar to Gats and let's be fair here they haven't played strictly like Wales like we saw last week.

While you are right we overestimate the impact of certain players, perhaps the point is, it would have been nice to find out. Nor does it change the emotion of what people are seeing on tour, if not form in the past 3-6 months. There are players who have stood out on tour who are rightly included in the test sides. Then those who many feel are simply being overlooked. I reckon the squeaked result last week has simply vindicated the choices, when the reality might have been 1-2 changes might have improved the starting 15. Without stating the obvious, and to give an unbiased example, personally think Vunipola lucky to start, and a real liability at scrum time. Other players must be wondering what they had to do to get even a sniff of the test 23. Reality is they never stood a chance.

 

[Nubiwan]

I try not to comment on your posts but best chance? We won't win, we barely won last week and unless you think he bribed SBW to commit to that should barge or actually has the power of voodoo over Barretts kicks.

As Howley that's Gartands fault you talk about best position but who do you think hired him? He could of got someone like Townsend but he went for Howley. You can't critisice one coach for being useless.and then not criticise the guy who in his wisdom hired the bloke.

I said this during the last match and I'll say it again do you think Ireland or England would of struggled as much to beat 14 men?

That last point is a solid one. I still think 14 ABs would give any national side a thorough examination. That's just how good they know they are. But yes, certain sides would have been less vulnerable, and error prone, against 14.

Let me ask everyone this: if the lions had lost last week, do you think Gatland would have left his side unchanged? Would he hell. Was our victory that convincing? Hardly. Is there room for improvement? I say definitely.

No matter who the test side happens to be against the ABs, cutting down mistakes (handling errors, pens) will be the biggest challenge the lions face, and those mistakes are being made because the level is higher than that which any of our players are accustomed.

On a positive note, the Lions have the advantage of being together in some pretty hefty tour matches now, so some cohesion will eventually start to tell. First 25 minutes of the 2nd test, and indeed those times the teams had even numbers, the lions where on par, if not the better side.

 

[Nubiwan]

Meanwhile SOB, who put Naholo out for this game, gets to play

I can see where that would tick some people off. Personally surprised it was not reviewed during the match, and would have resulted in at least a pen.

Someone also mentioned a Sam Kane incident that's been overlooked (I think it was Kane).

Any way, not like Lions tours to New Zealand are free of such controversy. Why change it now?

 

[munstermuffin]

I see BOD had a right cut too off Lions Management yesterday too.
On Sean O'Brien - agree with Groundhog he is back motoring. Think if he could always stay fit he would be 1 of the scariest players in the game.

 

[Nubiwan]

You don't have to use your bench. Rugby coaches are prone to emptying their benches at 60 minutes because that's just apparently what you're meant to do. They do so without giving much tactical thought into it or reading the game and what it needs.

Sam Cane came off last week and Whitelock and two juniors came on Barrett and Savea and immediately our defense suffered and we went on to lose the game. Those two should have stayed on. They are two leaders and Sam Cane was having an outstanding game.. I believe those two subs cost us the game more than Barretts kicking and taking Kaino off was the wrong move.

For me Hansen has been poor this test series. Which has really really surprised me.

We all respond differently when a little more pressure is applied. Lions make mistakes as players, that we might not normally expect in a 6N game. Same thing applies to Hansen. Probably feeling a little more heat with a lions tour than anything else he has faced. Even a World Cup, maybe. Simply put, he is expected to win a home series against any Northern opponent, and he is on the verge of losing one. Tell me he doesn't get a decent nights sleep.

The Kaino change was just all wrong in my opinion, but makes a decent point. When is the last time an AB manager has had to make such a decision? Big pressure. He has more pressure on him than his opponent who has nothing to lose on Saturday.

 

[Nubiwan]

I see BOD had a right cut too off Lions Management yesterday too.
On Sean O'Brien - agree with Groundhog he is back motoring. Think if he could always stay fit he would be 1 of the scariest players in the game.

What did BOD have to say? I'd be real interested to hear his opinion.

 

[Truth]

Let me ask everyone this: if the lions had lost last week, do you think Gatland would have left his side unchanged? Would he hell. Was our victory that convincing? Hardly. Is there room for improvement? I say definitely.

I think Gatland would have made the regular small changes but nothing major as the players did well IMO. He might have picked other players who haven't had a run against the ABs, to play as well.

The victory was definitely not convincing considering the advantage of the extra man. SBW is a huge loss for the All Blacks who simply didn't recover mentally after he got red carded so that was a huge advantage to the Lions in that they got rid of a very good player and that they reduced the playing numbers of the ABs. It wasn't convincing but it was a win that also strengthens the Lions players hopes of taking out the series.

 

[Dabbler]

What gives me hope for the Lions is the thought that we were playing pretty well prior to the sending off last week, and were looking like we could possibly sneak it. The red card seemed to disrupt us more than them, as we seemed to start chasing the game too much instead of just playing our natural game. Once the rain stopped and Murray decided to try passing instead of roosting the pill every time we had it, we looked dangerous.

What scares me, though, is that we haven't seen NZ at their majestic best in attack yet. They could blow us away in 20 minutes at any point in the game.

 

[Nubiwan]

I think Gatland would have made the regular small changes but nothing major as the players did well IMO. He might have picked other players who haven't had a run against the ABs, to play as well.

The victory was definitely not convincing considering the advantage of the extra man. SBW is a huge loss for the All Blacks who simply didn't recover mentally after he got red carded so that was a huge advantage to the Lions in that they got rid of a very good player and that they reduced the playing numbers of the ABs. It wasn't convincing but it was a win that also strengthens the Lions players hopes of taking out the serious.

Sort of my point. If we lost, then you'd expect some changes, naturally. Pehaps give those players a run who have merited it. As it is, we won, unconvincingly, and nothing is changed. Don't get it. Nor do I condemned it. I simply think some players never had a chance.

 

[Nubiwan]

What gives me hope for the Lions is the thought that we were playing pretty well prior to the sending off last week, and were looking like we could possibly sneak it. The red card seemed to disrupt us more than them, as we seemed to start chasing the game too much instead of just playing our natural game. Once the rain stopped and Murray decided to try passing instead of roosting the pill every time we had it, we looked dangerous.

What scares me, though, is that we haven't seen NZ at their majestic best in attack yet. They could blow us away in 20 minutes at any point in the game.

That's the second very good closing line in a post today, and I thank you (not) for reminding me how lethal our opponent can be, when they fancy it. Will be real surprised if the lions capitulate to a blow out on the weekend, given how the tour has gone. Don't think there was all that much in the 2 tests, to be honest. We shall see.

 

[munstermuffin]

What did BOD have to say? I'd be real interested to hear his opinion.

Was not happy with Lions being allowed go drinking and posting pictures up on social media of having beers in middle of day and all the bungee jumping and jet skiiing. He said fair enough taking a few days for R&R but if you're doing R&R do it right and don't be feeding motivation to the All Blacks. He said the All Blacks are probably killing eachother in training fuelled by a signal of "these guys are taking the easy road and being kind of disrespectful towards us".

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What scares me, though, is that we haven't seen NZ at their majestic best in attack yet.

Is this because us dull Northern Hemisphere types haven't really allowed them to do it though? Taking the ABs on at their own game is guaranteed defeat and probably by quite a lot. Draw them in to a dog fight; spoil, frustrate, annoy, chase, ****le, harass, play on the edge of the laws, don't give away cheap penalties, possession or field position. Oh and take chances when presented.

As for Gatland. By hook or by crook we're still in it and we'd all have taken that before the off. Not really surprised at the lack of changes. One last big effort