Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

[smartcooky]

SBW has been suspended for 4 weeks.

 

[nzlizard]

SBW has been suspended for 4 weeks.

Always knew he was going to get a rest, just how long was the question. I thought 6 weeks would be what it was.

 

[galumay]

Exactly the rule change has done NOTHING other than practically criminalize the players.

Not sure whether you dont get the point, dont want to get the point, or are just trolling. As I said, it appears the sanctions may not be strong enough. Hopefully the red card and 4 week suspension will cause SBW to have some self reflection and make better choices in the future. Also hopefully it causes other player to do the same.

I fully believe SBW didn't choose to hit Watson in the head because he reacted instinctively to go into the tackle. The lack of arms and the leading of the shoulder was a choice for me, therefore a red.

Exactly, its pretty staightforward. Clearly reckless and dangerous, foul play. I would hope there are no players at this level that would attack a player's head maliciously - that would be a whole different kettle of fish and would warrant RC & months of suspension if not more.

 

[Skylinerd1]

Again broken record here. But 4 weeks is just insane.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-to-face-judicial-hearing-for-shoulder-charge

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I see Fekitoa has been called up. Can we expect him to go straight into the team at 12, instead of Laumape, as I wouldn't expect Hansen to start a 1 cap AB in such a big game? Unless Crotty makes a miraculous recovery.

Also read Naholo did pass the HIA but wasn't risked to return to the field. So I'd expect same back 3 for ABs next week.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Again broken record here. But 4 weeks is just insane.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-to-face-judicial-hearing-for-shoulder-charge

The only broken record is you trying to defend SBW in this instance.

 

[Skylinerd1]

Not sure whether you dont get the point, dont want to get the point, or are just trolling. As I said, it appears the sanctions may not be strong enough. Hopefully the red card and 4 week suspension will cause SBW to have some self reflection and make better choices in the future. Also hopefully it causes other player to do the same.



Exactly, its pretty staightforward. Clearly reckless and dangerous, foul play. I would hope there are no players at this level that would attack a player's head maliciously - that would be a whole different kettle of fish and would warrant RC & months of suspension if not more.

It wont though as I said these things happen. I suggest you watch the incident back. SBW made a clean thumping tackle moments before this shoulder charge in the heat of the moment players are going to make mistakes like this especially an ex league convert who used to smash guys like this on a weekly basis with hardly a beep said about it.

The sanctions dont do **** mate. All it does is create something for the media and PC muppets to dick on about.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Exactly, the rule changes have done NOTHING other than practically criminalize the players. These incidents happen and will always happen. The slow mo and camera angles killing some players and not others is another major problem. IMO it should be mandatory say for SBW incident that the slo mo has to be played after the incident at original speed atleast once. Replaying a slo mo of these incidents 10 times does not give as true a picture as some might think and can make certain things appear worse than they are with the crowd going bezerk.

A red card for what SBW did imo is over the top in any major match of rugby. I still think they had it close to right when they had yellows and then citings and no such thing as red cards. Reds are being overused. Not saying there isnt a place for Reds I just dont think this should be the case for one. The only good thing to come out of the whole thing is it has made this particular series interesting and imo its a pretty **** way of making up for a team thats clearly out of their depth. Next time something like this happens it wont be in a test series and will ruin the game as it always does. It was hard to watch atleast half of this match after the send off as it just didnt have the same feeling about it.

I can't agree and for one fairly simple reason. If you go back to accepting "it's just an accident" as mitigation we'll see many more "accidents" and player safety will be further compromised.

In my opinion the laws are about right and SBW's challenge clearly met the criteria for a red card. I can't read intent but it looked like one of those challenges where a player is trying to make a point. If you do so illegally you run the risk of getting sent off. fwiw mako's was equally red carry for me. If you put yourself deliberately in a position where significant hard head contact will occur you're taking a risk.

Interestingly sob is about to get on the wrong end of what happened when Dylan Hartley did the same but more obvious thing to him

 

[smartcooky]

IMO it should be mandatory say for SBW incident that the slo mo has to be played after the incident at original speed atleast once. Replaying a slo mo of these incidents 10 times does not give as true a picture as some might think and can make certain things appear worse than they are

I agree 100% with this. In fact I posted an article about this some time back which discusses this in a scientific paper.

Warning: there is some video in this link that some may find disturbing. Its probably work safe but not child safe - the link itself is safe because none of the video will start automatically.

http://www.pnas.org/content/113/33/9250.full

For those who find the read a bit much, the upshot is this.

There is a sound scientific basis for why things can be perceived differently in slow motion tot the the way they are perceived at real time speed. This is due to something called "Slow Motion Intentionality Bias". It means that while you are watching a piece of video of an incident in slow motion, your brain is still operating in real time, so your perception of the available reaction time becomes distorted; your perception is that there was more time than there really was. This is not BS, its real, and is becoming something of a worry for criminal defence and prosecution lawyers with the increasing amount of video evidence being shown in courts and legal proceedings.

 

[Skylinerd1]

I see Fekitoa has been called up. Can we expect him to go straight into the team at 12, instead of Laumape, as I wouldn't expect Hansen to start a 1 cap AB in such a big game? Unless Crotty makes a miraculous recovery.

Also read Naholo did pass the HIA but wasn't risked to return to the field. So I'd expect same back 3 for ABs next week.

Another player I dont like but I think hansen may be forced to play him due to the situation. Not bad as a sub either though.

Fekitoa has signed overseas hasnt he? and just on that id probably bench him.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The Lions always get a least one cheap shot in each series they play. Just glad this time offence was actually punished and not another protecting one of their own.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

SOB has been cited for that? As said it is prob to balance out SBW as Cane did the same thing last week and the citing commission obvious thought it was fine.

https://www.thinkfast.org.uk/

Nice to see you looking out for me.

Tigs be like

Thankfully i didn't wet myself. I think.

 

[Skylinerd1]

The only broken record is you trying to defend SBW in this instance.

Im not trying to defend SBW I think the guys an idiot and cant wait to see him out of the AB's altogether.

Im more concerned about the game of rugby being a ******* game of rugby not a politically correct **** show.

 

[Ground We Won]

I see Fekitoa has been called up. Can we expect him to go straight into the team at 12, instead of Laumape, as I wouldn't expect Hansen to start a 1 cap AB in such a big game? Unless Crotty makes a miraculous recovery.

Also, read Naholo did pass the HIA but wasn't risked to return to the field. So I'd expect same back 3 for ABs next week.

I really hope so. I've been thinking about this tonight and Fekitoa should have been there before this MF crisis anyhow.

Laumape is a really good player and has a big future ahead of him but, he's not experienced for this scenario and test savvy.

I think Hansen put too much faith in guys with decent Super Rugby form. That competition is pretty awful at the moment and thumping teams like the Cheetahs is all fun and games but it's nowhere near test match quality rugby. He should have gone with seasoned experienced test players. Now wasn't the time to give the young guns and new kids on the block their debuts.

I'd like to see;

12.ALB
13.Fekitoa

23.Laumape

I'd even be happy with;

12.Laumape
13.ALB

23.Fekitoa

Personally, I think those are good midfield options and it should get us over the line.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Im not trying to defend SBW I think the guys an idiot and cant wait to see him out of the AB's altogether.

Im more concerned about the game of rugby being a ******* game of rugby not a politically correct **** show.

Yes, of course you're just concerned with rugby not turning into a PC show. Smashing another player's head with their shoulder should always be let off, nothing to do with being dirty, unacceptable and totally against the spirit of the game.

 

[ncurd]

Why have I just had read a couple of pages Skylineard1 being completely moronic and nobody mentioning the reason why head shot are no go area in modern game.

The answer is medical science. Until recently the long term effects of concussion and repeated concussions were not really understood. We have now learnt that have a dramatic effect on someone's long term health and lead to physical and mental problems. The rugby world has seen this evidence and is doing it's level best to mitigate those factors whilst preserving the contact nature of the sport. It really ****** me off when people pull out the PC card we little regards to the facts. If you want to watch a sport where the authorities dont give a **** about players welfare in the long term go watch something else and shut up.

 

[smartcooky]

Always knew he was going to get a rest, just how long was the question. I thought 6 weeks would be what it was.

Again broken record here. But 4 weeks is just insane.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-to-face-judicial-hearing-for-shoulder-charge

Lets look at the regulations. In all likelihood, he was charged under

10.4(g) Dangerous charging or knocking down an Opponent with the ball, including shouldering

Regulation 17 Appendix 1 says;

Low End = 2 weeks
Mid Range = 5 weeks
Top End = 10 up to a maximum of 52

Contact was made with the head, with force, so Low End is out of the question. It was not serious enough for Top End, so I reckon it was Mid Range - 5 weeks with a week off for an early guilty plea. There would be no mitigation for a clean record, because he has been yellow carded for this offence before.

Four weeks looks about right to me.

 

[ncurd]

Anyone know roughly when the SOB verdict will come in? Apparently the citation commision started about an hour ago.

I'll be honest I'm surprised he's been cited while Vunipola was let off. I can only assume that it's due to Nahalo needing a HIA (conflicting reports on if he passed or failed). To me it's a yellow as his arm has a reason to be there but I'll wait and see.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Anyone know roughly when the SOB verdict will come in? Apparently the citation commision started about an hour ago.

I'll be honest I'm surprised he's been cited while Vunipola was let off. I can only assume that it's due to Nahalo needing a HIA (conflicting reports on if he passed or failed). To me it's a yellow as his arm has a reason to be there but I'll wait and see.

According to the Sunday Times the hearing took place at 8pm NZ time/9am BST. So they are either still in there or deliberating the decision still.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

SOB has been cited for that? As said it is prob to balance out SBW as Cane did the same thing last week and the citing commission obvious thought it was fine.





Nice to see you looking out for me.



Thankfully i didn't wet myself. I think.

Cane is immune to rules though!

I think SOB's incident is a yellow card one, he attempted to use his arms properly and clumsily failed, the attempt to use his arms his arms takes it from a red to a yellow imo whereas there was no intent for SBW to use his.