Super 15: Blues - Stormers in Auckland (20-05-2011)

[TRF_RC]

More often then not Joe does pass the advantage line. Hes got strong leg drive so hes never easy to fullstop or put down straight away.

I agree, Joe does pass the advantage line, maybe i just perceive he does it less often than you claim, but what i'm saying he isn't the player he once was.
What happened to the give-it-a-go Joe? No more fancy footwork, no more cheeky moves. If he gets the ball 10 times in a match 6 or 7 times he'll pass it or kick it away. That's the way he is these days and that's almost opposite to the player he used to be.
He still has a strong leg drive, he's still tough to put down, but he's not as elusive as he was in his hey-day.

 

[Sam Owen]

I agree, Joe does pass the advantage line, maybe i just perceive he does it less often than you claim, but what i'm saying he isn't the player he once was.
What happened to the give-it-a-go Joe? No more fancy footwork, no more cheeky moves. If he gets the ball 10 times in a match 6 or 7 times he'll pass it or kick it away. That's the way he is these days and that's almost opposite to the player he used to be.
He still has a strong leg drive, he's still tough to put down, but he's not as elusive as he was in his hey-day.

No Joe hasnt been the same player for some time now. The fancy footwork and the cheeky moves are long gone and what about the spin?...think hes the only winger Ive ever seen spin to beat defenders.

I see what you mean though. He should look at League, I think he'll like it and do well.

 

[TRF_RC]

No Joe hasnt been the same player for some time now. The fancy footwork and the cheeky moves are long gone and what about the spin?...think hes the only winger Ive ever seen spin to beat defenders.

I see what you mean though. He should look at League, I think he'll like it and do well.

Undoubtedly. The guy was a freak of nature. How could someone so big be able to execute such a move so devastatingly?!
You've got a good point about league tho, that could quite suit him...then again i know crap-all about league.

Any chance Henry is feeling sentimental and looking at putting Joe in the 30 man RWC squad. Or is the plethora of on-form wingers just too much to ignore?

 

[Sam Owen]

Undoubtedly. The guy was a freak of nature. How could someone so big be able to execute such a move so devastatingly?!
You've got a good point about league tho, that could quite suit him...then again i know crap-all about league.

Any chance Henry is feeling sentimental and looking at putting Joe in the 30 man RWC squad. Or is the plethora of on-form wingers just too much to ignore?

Hard to tell with Henry especially with the good depth at his disposal. I wouldnt be suprised if Joe got in the squad though, most of the times theres a suprise selection and Joe wouldnt be one of those (not to me anyway), I'd chuck him in there but thats if he gets better throughout the rest of Super Rugby.

Plus Henry like Aucklanders

 

[Amobokoboko]

He cans till prove himself during the Tri Nations

 

[nickdnz]

Undoubtedly. The guy was a freak of nature. How could someone so big be able to execute such a move so devastatingly?!
You've got a good point about league tho, that could quite suit him...then again i know crap-all about league.

Any chance Henry is feeling sentimental and looking at putting Joe in the 30 man RWC squad. Or is the plethora of on-form wingers just too much to ignore?

I can't see him making the RWC squad. Too many people are down on Joe, and he's been given plenty of chances to shine. He'd have to have an amazing rest of the season. He wasn't even selected at all for the second half of the EoYT (though, he wasn't in 2009 either). I think with Ranger, Sivivatu, Maitland, Jane, Toeava, Masaga, Guildford, Smith and Gear all capable of playing wing, Rokocoko may well get the miss. I'd be pleasently suprised if he was picked, but I just can't see it. The only other way he may be picked is if he's picked to play against Fiji or during the Tri Nations, and shows some really good form.

 

[Larksea]

strange because the stormers lost from a clear lead the week before and won from being clear behind this weekend.

Blues are a very frustrating side because they are so good when they have momentum but when the momentum switches they have a habit of colapsing.

It was really their defense that let them down. Brett made more of an effort this week but he was still bad, Mathewson was pretty bad on defense as well. These guys are both so brilliant on attack but so questionable under pressure.

Peter Saili was very good again but that kick was a shocker. Gifting the stormers possession and position at the business end of the game like that.

Then burgers try at the end. He didn't exactly celebrate did he? And as we saw the week before he fancy's a bit of a celebtation when he scores. I think that says it all, had the ref asked try or no try rather than is there any reason then the result would have been different.

But well done stormers, Blues didn't really deserve to win.

I think the crucaders will end up with the #1 spot in NZ, the crucaders and chiefs are the two form NZ teams right now. From the Blues last couple of games they will find the chiefs very hard to overcome after their bye.

 

[Darwin]

strange because the stormers lost from a clear lead the week before and won from being clear behind this weekend.

Blues are a very frustrating side because they are so good when they have momentum but when the momentum switches they have a habit of colapsing.

It was really their defense that let them down. Brett made more of an effort this week but he was still bad, Mathewson was pretty bad on defense as well. These guys are both so brilliant on attack but so questionable under pressure.

Peter Saili was very good again but that kick was a shocker. Gifting the stormers possession and position at the business end of the game like that.

Then burgers try at the end. He didn't exactly celebrate did he? And as we saw the week before he fancy's a bit of a celebtation when he scores. I think that says it all, had the ref asked try or no try rather than is there any reason then the result would have been different.

But well done stormers, Blues didn't really deserve to win.

I think the crucaders will end up with the #1 spot in NZ, the crucaders and chiefs are the two form NZ teams right now. From the Blues last couple of games they will find the chiefs very hard to overcome after their bye.

I didn't think Mathewson was bad on defense at all. I only remember him missing the one tackle all match, and the match stats I've looked at back this up. Admittedly it was a costly miss tackle, but one missed tackle doesn't mean he had a poor defensive game in my opinion. I agree Brett was again poor on defense (though better than the week before), while the likes of Lachie Munro, Luke MacAlister, and Luke Braid all missed some crucial tackles during the match.

I agree on Burgers' try at the end: If the ref had asked "try or no-try" I don't think a try would have been awarded, as there was no clear evidence of the try. However the ref thought he saw the ball on the line, so the question he asked was the correct one. Based on this, I think awarding the try was the correct result.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Well, Blues just let that go with no real fight. Ridiculous. They ought to be ashamed of the way they played, but when you have a number 10 that is so awful at controlling the game, so awful at kicking from boot and only makes one real positive run/line break all game, you're clutching at straws hoping the players running off him are gonna do all the work in attack.

Blues really need a quality number 10, without that they're never gonna go all the way to hold a super 15 ***le.

Dam right they should be ashamed of themselves!

The Stormers were nothing special, and a half-decent team would have put them to the sword.
Sadly the Blues are not anywhere near decent, and as a Blues fan I am sadly vindicated in my belief that the season's earlier results were flattering to deceive.

Pathetic second half effort.
The Blues players should have a long hard look at themselves after that.

As should Pat Lam for trying to excuse it by focusing on whether Burger scored the last try or not.
The point you're missing here Pat, is that the Stomers should never have been close enough for that try to matter.

I wish the Blues would have an open feedback session with the fans like the Waratahs did.
They need to hear a few home truths.

 

[Sam Owen]

I agree Brett was again poor on defense (though better than the week before), while the likes of Lachie Munro, Luke MacAlister, and Luke Braid all missed some crucial tackles during the match.

Dont forget Paynes out of positional play on defence that let Sadie through and in for his try. Luke McAllistair was fuming (and me) and looking for his centre (Payne) who was shadowing the winger instead of his opposite (Sadie). Watch the replay and you'll see Luke looking and cursing then he has some calm words to Jarred under the posts.

I wish the Blues would have an open feedback session with the fans like the Waratahs did.
They need to hear a few home truths.

Pat wont want to be sworn at lol but that it'll be a good idea.

 

[Larksea]

just trying to look at the stats to see if there was a pattern that could pinpoint the problems that the blues have on defense. Mainly wondering how much tackling are the Blues lose forwards doing compared to the rest of the team and are they doing enough? As far as stats go Boric was the best with a team high 13 made and none missed. Saili was ok with 10 and none missed Luke Braid made 13 but missed 2. The kind of player he is I would expect that to be higher and I think he has had better days on defense this season. maybe being his first season where he's asked to play 80min each game he's just dropping off a bit?

Was suprised to see Kaino only made 7 and missed 1? That seems a little low for the All Black blindside? I would kinda expect the flankers to make at least 15 considering Kaino only had about 7 ball carrys too. Compared to Messam when the chiefs played the stormers only made 7 no misses but had a game high 17 ball carries, one line break, two offloads 92% over the advantage line and behind only Sivivatu (who had an awesome game) in meters gained with 101.

The fact that Williams & Boric did more than the Loosies may say something? Though statistics never tell the whole story. Seems like there is almost always more than one defender involved in tackles but maybe only one gets credit. Ali Williams really looked like he targeted andries bekker which was good to see, against a big guy like that you need someone who can goe toe to toe and take them on.

Also wonder if maybe the blues have some issues changing from attack to defense to lower the damage done from turnovers? Also wonder if they lift as much as other teams when they are in their own red zone?

 

[ranger]

just trying to look at the stats to see if there was a pattern that could pinpoint the problems that the blues have on defense. Mainly wondering how much tackling are the Blues lose forwards doing compared to the rest of the team and are they doing enough? As far as stats go Boric was the best with a team high 13 made and none missed. Saili was ok with 10 and none missed Luke Braid made 13 but missed 2. The kind of player he is I would expect that to be higher and I think he has had better days on defense this season. maybe being his first season where he's asked to play 80min each game he's just dropping off a bit?

Was suprised to see Kaino only made 7 and missed 1? That seems a little low for the All Black blindside? I would kinda expect the flankers to make at least 15 considering Kaino only had about 7 ball carrys too. Compared to Messam when the chiefs played the stormers only made 7 no misses but had a game high 17 ball carries, one line break, two offloads 92% over the advantage line and behind only Sivivatu (who had an awesome game) in meters gained with 101.

The fact that Williams & Boric did more than the Loosies may say something? Though statistics never tell the whole story. Seems like there is almost always more than one defender involved in tackles but maybe only one gets credit. Ali Williams really looked like he targeted andries bekker which was good to see, against a big guy like that you need someone who can goe toe to toe and take them on.

Also wonder if maybe the blues have some issues changing from attack to defense to lower the damage done from turnovers? Also wonder if they lift as much as other teams when they are in their own red zone?

These statistics should really be taken with a grain of salt. The bulk of the tackles Kaino makes are in close on the pick and go where its just a mess of bodies and im not sure who gets credited with a tackle for that or if anyone does at all. The most valuable part of his game though is his mammoth effort in clearing out and securing rucks, which no one seems to take statistics on.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

just trying to look at the stats to see if there was a pattern that could pinpoint the problems that the blues have on defense. Mainly wondering how much tackling are the Blues lose forwards doing compared to the rest of the team and are they doing enough? As far as stats go Boric was the best with a team high 13 made and none missed. Saili was ok with 10 and none missed Luke Braid made 13 but missed 2. The kind of player he is I would expect that to be higher and I think he has had better days on defense this season. maybe being his first season where he's asked to play 80min each game he's just dropping off a bit?

Was suprised to see Kaino only made 7 and missed 1? That seems a little low for the All Black blindside? I would kinda expect the flankers to make at least 15 considering Kaino only had about 7 ball carrys too. Compared to Messam when the chiefs played the stormers only made 7 no misses but had a game high 17 ball carries, one line break, two offloads 92% over the advantage line and behind only Sivivatu (who had an awesome game) in meters gained with 101.

The fact that Williams & Boric did more than the Loosies may say something? Though statistics never tell the whole story. Seems like there is almost always more than one defender involved in tackles but maybe only one gets credit. Ali Williams really looked like he targeted andries bekker which was good to see, against a big guy like that you need someone who can goe toe to toe and take them on.

Also wonder if maybe the blues have some issues changing from attack to defense to lower the damage done from turnovers? Also wonder if they lift as much as other teams when they are in their own red zone?

In looking at the stats its important to note that the Stormers played two totally different games and weather conditions were different as well. Where the Stormers kicked a lot of ball away against the Chiefs and were pinned in their 22 with minimal possession you wouldn't have expected Messam to get much more than 7 tackles in simply because the Stormers were kicking and the Chiefs had the Lion's share of possession (probably explaining Messam's massive amount of carries) while I agree one would have expected the Blues to get more tackles in seeing that the Stormers were looking to run nearly everything even getting ourselves into a spot of bother on two occassions because of it.