Summer tours - England

[Ragey Erasmus]

The thing is we are comparing players to the incumbents and asking if they are an improvement or not.

S.Simmonds may not have looked good but the entire team was well beaten. Billy V on the other hand has looked anonymous even when England were on top and downright terrible when they are behind. Are there any England 8's who could have been put in that Exeter team who would have done a better job? On the flip side last week could Billy V have done what Simmonds did? He had a relatively anonymous game yes, did he personally **** up much? Not that I can really remember. Also he had a bad game, Billy V has had entire bad seasons at both club and country.

 

[BPM]

My point seems to have been missed ...

I was saying that it would be ironic for Eddie to be pleased by Exeter losing as they were guilty of the very same things that have been letting England down recently - poor at the breakdown, poor discipline and no plan B.

I do think Sam Simmonds missed an opportunity to show that he can adapt to a different type of game though. If he'd made more of an obvious impression at the breakdown or even shown that he could find a way to get around being shut down early, it would have gone a long way towards him answering the questions posed about him. As it was, he was anonymous at the breakdown and had no answer to Leinster shutting him down.

I accept he's not responsible for his team's gameplan, but I still feel he could have done more to get involved in other areas when the carrying clearly wasn't working. He could have used his pace to work on trying to nullify van der Flier for example. Not a massive bloke and someone Simmonds should be able to go toe to toe with IMO.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

See it's Joe Heyes birthday today, crazy he's only 22 years old.
On 63 caps (Only 8 from the Prem cup)

Said it before but the welsh are trying extremely hard to cap him.

 

[Welsh Exile]

See it's Joe Heyes birthday today, crazy he's only 22 years old.
On 63 caps (Only 8 from the Prem cup)

Said it before but the welsh are trying extremely hard to cap him.

Any good? I see his middle name is Rhys so all good.

Are you a Leicester fan? How's Reffell playing?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

See it's Joe Heyes birthday today, crazy he's only 22 years old.
On 63 caps (Only 8 from the Prem cup)

Said it before but the welsh are trying extremely hard to cap him.

Williams form means there's now a definite vacancy for the 3rd TH spot. I can't think of many others ahead of Heyes so capping him would be entirely natural from an Eng perspective with the added bonus of keeping him out of Welsh clutches. Think he's Ire qualified too?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Any good? I see his middle name is Rhys so all good.

Are you a Leicester fan? How's Reffell playing?

Heyes IMO is along with street the 2 most promising Tightheads in the league both proper Tightheads also, you don't get 63 Tigers caps if you are not a good prop really. Personally I would say this season he is starting to overtake Cole also. Think his Grandad played for Swansea as a goalkepeper

I am a Tigers fan and Reffell is playing dogshit really not worth the bother, certainly isn't a really promising openside in a very physical way.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Heyes IMO is along with street the 2 most promising Tightheads in the league both proper Tightheads also, you don't get 63 Tigers caps if you are not a good prop really. Personally I would say this season he is starting to overtake Cole also. Think his Grandad played for Swansea as a goalkepeper

I am a Tigers fan and Reffell is playing dogshit really not worth the bother, certainly isn't a really promising openside in a very physical way.

Thanks for the reasonse. Shame re Reffell. He was once tipped to be a very good player. Seen him a few times (not for a while) and he looked like he had a good engine on him and put himself about but nothing that made me think this kid is going to be world class or anything. Seemed pretty combative even though he's not the biggest. As I say, shame. He's still young, though.

Sounds like we need to cap this Heyes kid, though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Thanks for the reasonse. Shame re Reffell. He was once tipped to be a very good player. Seen him a few times (not for a while) and he looked like he had a good engine on him and put himself about but nothing that made me think this kid is going to be world class or anything. Seemed pretty combative even though he's not the biggest. As I say, shame. He's still young, though.

Sounds like we need to cap this Heyes kid, though.

I'm being sarcastic I just don't want a welsh region to take another top player from Tigers (Costelow and Holmes last season ) Reffell for me is a natural born leader and even if Taufua was still here I would be tempted to keep starting Reffell and have Taufua on the bench.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm being sarcastic I just don't want a welsh region to take another top player from Tigers (Costelow and Holmes last season ) Reffell for me is a natural born leader and even if Taufua was still here I would be tempted to keep starting Reffell and have Taufua on the bench.

Ha ha. What a idiot. I did think you might be taking the ****. Lol.

Yeah, love Costelow and I think Holmes is really underrated. The guy has serious gas.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

@Tigs Man do you support Tigs?

Reffell is Alec Guinness, though - love watching him play, honestly he should be in the welsh side already tbh, but if it means he has to go and kill his career at a region then it's probably for the best that he hasn't been yet

 

[Welsh Exile]

@Tigs Man do you support Tigs?

Reffell is Alec Guinness, though - love watching him play, honestly he should be in the welsh side already tbh, but if it means he has to go and kill his career at a region then it's probably for the best that he hasn't been yet

Ha ha. Fair play. It's the morning is my excuse. That and I'm pretty stupid.

Jesus, that's 2 of you that rate him very highly, he must be half decent. It's stupid how many good back rowers we have but a real lack of quality in other areas like the front 5. Annoying.

 

[Geordie]

I wonder how many of the young Tigers and the young Saints will go on the Summer tour. Many of them are impressing considerably.

 

[LIONSxv]

Really impressed with saints young trio of dingwell, mitchell and sleighthome All play in positions that we aren't currently overburdened with options either. Sleighthome like his dad,has some serious gas.
These are definitely the types that Jones should be looking at for a summer tour imo

 

[BPM]

Ha ha. Fair play. It's the morning is my excuse. That and I'm pretty stupid.

Jesus, that's 2 of you that rate him very highly, he must be half decent. It's stupid how many good back rowers we have but a real lack of quality in other areas like the front 5. Annoying.

Maybe, but Tipuric and Lydiate are getting on and Ellis Jenkins might not be at the same level he was pre-injury.

I'd say Taine Basham and Jac Morgan have an advantage obvious advantage over Reffell simply by virtue of playing in Wales. Botham is OK, but not as good as the other three I mentioned IMO and Lewis-Hughes is more of a 6.

Definitely a bit of opportunity post RWC if not sooner.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Anyone else extremely disappointed that there will be no USA v England in america on July 4th
It was marketing gold.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Maybe, but Tipuric and Lydiate are getting on and Ellis Jenkins might not be at the same level he was pre-injury.

I'd say Taine Basham and Jac Morgan have an advantage obvious advantage over Reffell simply by virtue of playing in Wales. Botham is OK, but not as good as the other three I mentioned IMO and Lewis-Hughes is more of a 6.

Definitely a bit of opportunity post RWC if not sooner.

Agree with every word you say. Ellis Jenkins looks like he will as his first few games back have been impressive but he still has to get a lot more games under his belt.

Post WC you're right, though, but I don't see it coming before just because Tips, Navidi and Faleteau are locked in for the WC, assuming they aren't injured, and if they are we have Wainwright, Moriarty, Botham and Shane Lewis Hughes ahead in the pecking order and I'd imagine Ellis Jenkins will be next season.

Post WC there will definitely be opportunities for him, Basham and a few others, though.

Edit: I take it Leicester have never really used Reffell as a 6 or has he played there to?

 

[BPM]

Only ever seen Reffell at 7 TBH and he looks like an out-and-out openside.

I forgot about Wainwright, but I'd say he's more of a 6.

Anyway - I'll leave it there on the Welsh back row future as this is an England tour thread!

Some really nice work from Malins and Earl for Bristol yesterday. Both have a good chance of starting roles with England over the summer.

 

[BiggusLaddus]

Anyone else extremely disappointed that there will be no USA v England in america on July 4th
It was marketing gold.

Massive missed opportunity. We could have come up with a special red kit for the occasion.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm going to be very disappointed if we don't get a proper look at Dombrandt, Smith and Devoto in the summer. Those are all playing consistently well in problem positions.

Never been Mercer's biggest fan, but he's playing out of his skin right now. Very impressive. Ship has sailed for the moment, but feels like he's giving Jones a bit of a 2 fingered salute.

Isiekwe must also get some game time - as a lock. If there are any consistently better in the air at kick offs and line outs it's not many. He'll never be an a Itoje occasional 10/10 type but feels like he's developing more into a Kruis - very solid, low error count, not entirely sure what does, but teams seem to be better with him in - type. Even if he has lost a bit of weight to play 6 for Saints he's still a very big bloke and incredibly athletic. That Sarries invariably found a way to include him while having Itoje, Kruis and Skelton on the books spoke volumes and he'll have learned so much from a year in a different culture including a v rough period and a different style of play.

 

[Geordie]

Only ever seen Reffell at 7 TBH and he looks like an out-and-out openside.

I forgot about Wainwright, but I'd say he's more of a 6.

Anyway - I'll leave it there on the Welsh back row future as this is an England tour thread!

Some really nice work from Malins and Earl for Bristol yesterday. Both have a good chance of starting roles with England over the summer.

Sadly they didnt have much opposition.