Summer tours - England

[Geordie]

I really like what Steward offers...the brick at the back with improving attacking ability...means your wingers can try more magic...

There's so much young talent coming through if we don't do well this next world Cup it will be criminal.

I said before the last one we would do well in 2019 but 23 would be our year. I still stick by that...my concern is not the talent.. its Eddie..

 

[BPM]

The thing is, it seems like anything other than winning the whole thing is seen as a failure. It's an insanely hard job for any coach.

A lot of England fans seem to think we should be winning Grandslams or at least the 6N every year and winning the World Cup. I understand the expectation to some degree given the quality of the talent we are producing but that seems to forget that several other teams are consistently doing the same thing. 2023 is a home tournament for France who will be very strong, as will NZ and SA. We'll be contenders but I wouldn't bank on it being 'our year'.

A massive amount depends on what happens over the next year or so. The side is a low ebb now, but I don't really care so much about 2021 when 2023 is when we need to be peaking.

 

[LIONSxv]

We seem to have a ridiculous amount of talent in the back row, fly half and to a lesser extent at SH and FB. Second row seems to have dried up and centres have been a concern for years.
Back row is crazy, looking at players 25 or under. We have
J Willis (injured)
T Willis
A barbeary (injured)
T Curry
B Curry
A Dombrandt
T Hill
B Earl
S Underhill

I would also love to include Zach Mercer into the mix, who has been baths first choice 8. However he off to France

 

[BPM]

Plus Lewis Ludlam (who's only 25) and George Martin.

Callum Chick and Will Evans (prior to his injury) have also had excellent seasons.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't realise Barbeary is injured again
Is it bad/will it make him unavailable for the summer?

 

[LIONSxv]

Plus Lewis Ludlam (who's only 25) and George Martin.

Callum Chick and Will Evans (prior to his injury) have also had excellent seasons.

I didn't include Martin as for me he move to lock. And some lock he will become imo. He could be a proper monster.

Must admit I thought ludlam was a bit older, 26/27. Still plenty of time for him to improve also.
It really is an embarrassment of riches we have

 

[BPM]

Didn't realise Barbeary is injured again
Is it bad/will it make him unavailable for the summer?

No idea. He was a late withdrawal from a game a few weeks back - at the time they said it was a tight calf or hamstring. Something like that anyway. I'd expected him back by now TBH.

 

[Geordie]

Second row seems to have dried up

With regards to Second Row...we've been lucky we've had 4/5 locks amongst the best in the world for years now. Some are hitting their early 30s.
But we're not in a bad position.

We still have Lawes, Itoje, and Launchbury (when fit), and possibly Kruis (depending on his plans)

Johnny Hill is away with the Lions which will bring his game on another level....

Ribbans is probably going to be in the summer squad and is some player...and a big guy.
George Martin will move to lock....hes 19st now...will most likely hit 20st naturally, and with that work rate and power could become some lock!
Nick Isiekwe - I still think we havent seen the last of him. He's only 23 year old...and physically has it all. Moving back to Sarries and playing lock rather than 6 could really push him on to the level we all hoped he would make.
Alex Moon has been in and around the squad for some time now.
Ewells - Will most likely be in the summer squad, and whilst im not a huge fan, he was actually solid in the 6n.

Outsider:
Joel Kpoku - Another lock who i think could come through before 2023. He's only 6'5 but he's over 20st and could be a huge powerhouse in the engine room, once Sarries have finished developing him.

Plus im sure most clubs have some kids with potential coming through....

So we're not in too bad a shape at the moment

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kruis is back in country now, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't go back to Sarries next season

Controversial opinion but I think Wells > Martin

 

[Geordie]

Not controversial Olyy, Wells is a big aggressive lock. Ideal for the Tigers, bit like one of their old school locks (his dad). But i think he's 27 now isnt he? Martin is 19.

That why theres hype around him, hes playing so well at such a young age, and still has so much developing to do physically.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

27 is no real age for a lock, though

I don't get the hype around Martin tbh,
I have to just bow to Tigers fans knowledge of seeing a lot more of him than I have

He's good, don't get me wrong, but doesn't look better than any of the other options touted for England

 

[Geordie]

Im not sure Wells is international level. I think he's a perfect match for Tigers....big aggresive lock, and suits the way Borthwick wants to bring back the old tigers nastyness in the pack.
The fact he'll not likely be called up makes him perfect as he's always available.

 

[LIONSxv]

Didn't realise Barbeary is injured again
Is it bad/will it make him unavailable for the summer?

Hamstring I believe, Blackett said it wasn't too bad. However that was late April and wasps have played 3 times since then with no sign of him

 

[LIONSxv]

With regards to Second Row...we've been lucky we've had 4/5 locks amongst the best in the world for years now. Some are hitting their early 30s.
But we're not in a bad position.

We still have Lawes, Itoje, and Launchbury (when fit), and possibly Kruis (depending on his plans)

Johnny Hill is away with the Lions which will bring his game on another level....

Ribbans is probably going to be in the summer squad and is some player...and a big guy.
George Martin will move to lock....hes 19st now...will most likely hit 20st naturally, and with that work rate and power could become some lock!
Nick Isiekwe - I still think we havent seen the last of him. He's only 23 year old...and physically has it all. Moving back to Sarries and playing lock rather than 6 could really push him on to the level we all hoped he would make.
Alex Moon has been in and around the squad for some time now.
Ewells - Will most likely be in the summer squad, and whilst im not a huge fan, he was actually solid in the 6n.

Outsider:
Joel Kpoku - Another lock who i think could come through before 2023. He's only 6'5 but he's over 20st and could be a huge powerhouse in the engine room, once Sarries have finished developing him.

Plus im sure most clubs have some kids with potential coming through....

So we're not in too bad a shape at the moment

Yeah it's a list but not a great list. The only ones that excite me potential wise is Isiekwe, Martin and Kpoku the rest are a bit same old..steady types with Ewels the epitome of bang average

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

3 Best 7's in English rugby
Curry
Curry
Reffell

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Kruis is back in country now, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't go back to Sarries next season

Kruis signed on another year in Japan.

 

[Geordie]

3 Best 7's in English rugby
Curry
Curry
Reffell

Evans at quins?

 

[Geordie]

Yeah it's a list but not a great list. The only ones that excite me potential wise is Isiekwe, Martin and Kpoku the rest are a bit same old..steady types with Ewels the epitome of bang average

But you only need 3/4 and from that list we should be fine.

I do agree i wouldnt have Ewells in my squad either.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kruis signed on another year in Japan.

For real?
Missed that, damn

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

For real?
Missed that, damn

Yeh said in a interview that he had an option for another year and decided to take.