Spring Tour: South Africa - England - 1st Test (09/06/2012, 16:00 GMT)

[kusta]

What a boring game! Spies poor once again letting players pass easily over the advantage line which could've led to tries if we were playing teams like the All blacks or the Aussie's, wouldve loved to see keagan come on with about 20minutes to go when I felt the game had opened up a bit in place of Spies. Ball was too slow to come out the back of a ruck when we needed a quick ball especially in the first few minutes! But a win is a win and Big Willem Alberts having a massive game!!!!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I really don't agree with the guys saying the scoreboard flattered England....only in the sense that South Africa had all the position but did very little with it apart form bash their way forward (a fair enough strategy) but you not scoring more points/us preventing you scoring more points is surely an indication of your limitations and our strengths. No?

 

[Teh Mite]

Botha should be dropped from the England team permanently, just throws himself at the ground in the hope that people trip over him and a hopelessly inept runner.

Ben Youngs was ultimately ****! Dickson is the form player, plenty of time with Farrell, then we start Youngs?? :<( Can;t even pass the ball to the 10 properly, lost count of the number of times Farrell was having to turn into his 12 to catch it or grab it above his head. And a couple of times tapped and went from penalties which was clearly the wrong option - we had won all of our lineouts with 5 minutes to go, we're in our own half, we need 7 points for the draw, so why not kick the ****ing ball down field and have a lineout on their 22.

Our back row is lacking clearly as well, but injuries so hey ho.

Farrell didn't look the part today would start Flood next week - but Farrells poor game was probably more due to Youngs passing than anything else. The missed ouch was inexcusable though.

Brown wasn't good enough either doesn't offer anything meaningful in attack and we must have a winger who can field high balls - one of the most basic things out there.

Tulagi - should be a weapon for us but he seeks contact far too much and cant offload. Also we need to get him running Aussie style from about 10 meters back from where he is going to take the pass - not jogging for it 5 meters in front of the SA defense! Unless we can use him as a world class crash ball or linebreaker, then we should put someone more creative in.

For next match:

Dickson to start, Care to come in for Youngs on the bench.
Farrell benched for Flood.
Maybe Joseph in at 13, Tulagi on wing, Brown on the bench, Foden back at 15.


Hats of to the bok, played their game very well.

+1

 

[Canucks]

Brown was underwhelming at 15. Why he started at 15 over Ben Foden is beyond me?

Dickson would be my choice at 9 next game as well. Box kicks alone would be a noticeable difference.

Tuilagi is good for what he does. He's a big physical presence in the centers and I felt he did his job well. Englands problem overall is there is no direction in the attack for the backline. You get guys doing too much and overall lack any coordination.

South Africa was just so powerful. I did enjoy Habana laying out Ashton.

Looking forward to the next one.

 

[Peat]

If South Africa could finish the scoreboard wouldn't have flattered us. We're not the only one with a midfield creativity issue.

Also, I think people are forgetting that a) Youngs was responsible for just about every piece of backline creativity until he left and b) passed at least as well as Dickson did against the Baabaas. People make far more of his mistakes than they do of other players.

 

[peanuts40]

I really don't agree with the guys saying the scoreboard flattered England....only in the sense that South Africa had all the position but did very little with it apart form bash their way forward (a fair enough strategy) but you not scoring more points/us preventing you scoring more points is surely an indication of your limitations and our strengths. No?

No, because we dominated every aspect bar lineouts and the breakdown in the first half. It was the simple case of we should of scored more, and you were lucky to score as many as you did. Only a late try made the score respectable. And I thought our backline actually played quite well and created a lot more chances than your guys did for themselves. Had Morne got his kicks the scoreline would of shown a truer reflection of the game.

 

[Tony Manx]

Botha should be dropped from the England team permanently, just throws himself at the ground in the hope that people trip over him and a hopelessly inept runner.

Ben Youngs was ultimately ****! Dickson is the form player, plenty of time with Farrell, then we start Youngs?? :<( Can;t even pass the ball to the 10 properly, lost count of the number of times Farrell was having to turn into his 12 to catch it or grab it above his head. And a couple of times tapped and went from penalties which was clearly the wrong option - we had won all of our lineouts with 5 minutes to go, we're in our own half, we need 7 points for the draw, so why not kick the ****ing ball down field and have a lineout on their 22.

Our back row is lacking clearly as well, but injuries so hey ho.

Farrell didn't look the part today would start Flood next week - but Farrells poor game was probably more due to Youngs passing than anything else. The missed ouch was inexcusable though.

Brown wasn't good enough either doesn't offer anything meaningful in attack and we must have a winger who can field high balls - one of the most basic things out there.

Tulagi - should be a weapon for us but he seeks contact far too much and cant offload. Also we need to get him running Aussie style from about 10 meters back from where he is going to take the pass - not jogging for it 5 meters in front of the SA defense! Unless we can use him as a world class crash ball or linebreaker, then we should put someone more creative in.

For next match:

Dickson to start, Care to come in for Youngs on the bench.
Farrell benched for Flood.
Maybe Joseph in at 13, Tulagi on wing, Brown on the bench, Foden back at 15.


Hats of to the bok, played their game very well.

100% agreement....could not say anything more or better!

PS Thought the new Walsh was immense comparted to the crap he used to be.....some really good use of advantage but maybe a card could have been given the only criticism

 

[Wilko's left boot]

*cough* you know what you're supposed to do when you agree with someone...

Ahh, twas you, apologies. Credit to you then.

 

[peanuts40]

Considering the little amount of time and preparation we had leading up to the game, I'm pretty pleased with the result.

 

[Sker]

Don't see why, our kicking game on which Meyer said he is going to focus failed. Horribly.

The rest was good.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lee Dickson was painfully slow when he came on.
I hate Youngs as much as the next man, but he was far far better than Dickson today. At least he knows how to throw a ball at a player, not just stare at it on the ground and scratch his arse for 25minutes.

 

[callsign.springbok]

give Lambie a go at 10, please! with Hougaard and Lambie we might be able to actually give the kicking game a rest and have some darts and linebreaks.

 

[coonor]

The kicking game worked really well though today and at greater height should be even better! It may not be attractive but if SA open the game up it will be easier for England to capatalise on mistakes.

England seem to be really struggling with the scrum half position. I thought Youngs was pretty dreadful today. His pass was often to high, his kicking was very poor and his decision making wasn't great either. Unfortunatly Dickson wasn't much better. Maybe trying him in the midweek game could be good to see if he is up to scrunch even if it is a lower level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Care is the way forward - start him midweek and if he performs well then take him off at halftime and start him vs Boks in the next test.

 

[racingmetrofan]

Lee Dickson was painfully slow when he came on.
I hate Youngs as much as the next man, but he was far far better than Dickson today. At least he knows how to throw a ball at a player, not just stare at it on the ground and scratch his arse for 25minutes.

Its because no one calls for it. Watch NZ play and Carter or whoever is lining up is calling for it. Farrell and Flood come the latter parts of the game just didn't do it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Peanuts you have a very loose definition of 'dominated'. You certainly 'dominated' kicking the ball high in the area if that helps? South Africa really started to win the collisions in the second half, and had both the territory and the possession. You had an edge in the scrum, although there was one scrum which really tore ours apart. England were consistently good at the breakdown, throughout the whole game, but with the South Africans in the 2nd half getting so far over the gain-line every move the breakdown became a more and more redundant area for us to compete in. Marler, Botha Cole and co should take credit for breakdown efforts continuing well into the last quarter but it would have taken a referee with zero tolerance at the breakdown really punitive to the attacking team for England to be winning the turnovers still at that point. We were being marched backwards.

Racingmetrofan I agree about Bothas tackling, he literally does just pose as a banana skin as a ploy to bring people down. But he's an athletic hardworking forward adding alot in the loose. Thinking about it, South Africa are one of the few teams who would expose a lock as undersized just because he's not 120kg! It shouldn't be a problem against other teams. For the time being though, maybe we should bring in Palmer in his place for the next two games?

Johnson and Robshaw were absolute quality I thought. I really underestimated Johnson coming into this tour. I definitely think there's an argument for haskell finding his way in somewhere - probably in place of Dowson on the bench? We need that added physicality. Also, Mears can **** off'

I thought Youngs was creative and spotted the opportunities where they were. But his basics were pretty poor alot of the time. Care meanwhile does everything to an acceptable standard, so we'd better hope that Care has a good midweek and worms his way in.

I'm torn as to whether South Africa are beatable at all in this series. I think they are, but we have to make early inroads and make the boks chase a game. They're far too comfortable in the arm-wrestle style of game and we have to disrupt that early.

Disagree about Tuilagi, he's quality but showed some naivty and inexperience in the second half. We need to get outside backs moving around him so that Tuilagi actually has the option to offload. I agree he needs to be more minded to the offload. But theres really no grounds for describing him as over-hyped on the basis of that game.

I really dislike Farrells kicking game, it feels too much of a lottery with him and he 'overcooks' way too many of his little touches through. I'd prefer to start with Flood but I know that this would be a blow to his confidence.

In the back 3, I just feel if South Africa are not going to play an expansive game then we should do that with interest. we looked sharp at times with our backs, but too predictable (as usual) from strike-moves. For me this means we should have a normal back 3 with Foden and two wings. This is where we need Wade in. He has the gas to cause problems. That theoretically should mean Brown to the bench, but that means probably losing Joseph which is counter-intuitive to the sort of game I think we should be playing. Personally, I'd take Brown out the 22 altogether (not because he was bad today, but is he the way forward?)

Anyway, amazing game, the term 'Test Match' was invented for that sort of encounter. Credit to the boks.

 

[Peat]

Play Wade and Steyn will place the ball on his head for a chaser more times than there are stars in the sky. I'm not certain he's ready for that kind of pressure.

Frankly, I couldn't care less who they play in the back 3 until they fix the 10-12-13 problem, as right now those guys exist to tackle, kick and maybe counter-attack. The back-three that is. 10-12-13 mainly exist just to tackle and run - or kick in Farrell's case.

Care might be the right option for the next game. Youngs and Flood do work well together though - but then Youngs isn't making this easy on himself.

 

[peanuts40]

I feel this was England's best chance to win a game against us, don't see them winning any now (except against the awful baa baa teams)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I feel this was England's best chance to win a game against us, don't see them winning any now (except against the awful baa baa teams)

I agree with this.


I also agree with Peat on Wade - start him both midweeks, but I wouldn't stick him straight in vs Boks, they'll just put the ball over his head or send Alberts at him all afternoon.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Play Wade and Steyn will place the ball on his head for a chaser more times than there are stars in the sky. I'm not certain he's ready for that kind of pressure.

Frankly, I couldn't care less who they play in the back 3 until they fix the 10-12-13 problem, as right now those guys exist to tackle, kick and maybe counter-attack. The back-three that is. 10-12-13 mainly exist just to tackle and run - or kick in Farrell's case.

Care might be the right option for the next game. Youngs and Flood do work well together though - but then Youngs isn't making this easy on himself.

10-12-13 is hard to call on - It's worked well enough to us to win most of our games with it and it gave the South Africans a good game. Can we really change it just because we didn't beat a fantastic team away from home? Don't get me wrong, there's lots we need to add to our midfield game, but we're not going to find better defenders than Barritt. Allen is a more creative ballplaying 12 but against the boks we need Barritt really. It would seem to be a bit reactionary to change what has generally been effective. What we need to change in my opinion is the way our wingers work off 13 - for the moment, Tuilagi.

On Wade, you have a point Peat, but so far every player we've thrown into the deepend with debuts has done well, and having an experienced back 3 coping well under the highball didn't help us win the game. Surely we need to try something different somewhere, and Wade is good infield as well as on his wing