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Spring Tour: New Zealand vs Ireland - 2nd Test. (16/6/2012, 07:35 GMT)

big ginger 8 said:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0612/1224317751239.html

Guess we know whats going up on the dressing rooom walls.

So N.Z. only make one change Thompson sor Vito not as physical but a good runner out wide and excellent lineout otion. Not going to win us the match anyway.

Can we get a vbookie for this?
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If you need to seek motivation from some random newspaper journalists then you're up against it already, I'm sure the irish players won't even take notice of that sort of thing.
 
donmcdazzle said:
If you need to seek motivation from some random newspaper journalists then you're up against it already, I'm sure the irish players won't even take notice of that sort of thing.
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You don't know Declan Kidney it's one of his favorites. It's not pathetic it's used by plenty of teams and is good for getting a stronger sense of togetherness
 
All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith

only minor change forced Vito's injury. I guess that's good though I'd like to see some others get a run. It may be what Hansen wants long term but it may also be a way to just show the public that he wants to do things differently - kind of stamp his mark.

talk about Nonu starting turned out to be rubbish

I tend to think that in NZ we have so much talent that if you dont make some changes you're not going to find the best 22 for the job.
 
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big ginger 8 said:
You don't know Declan Kidney it's one of his favorites. It's not pathetic it's used by plenty of teams and is good for getting a stronger sense of togetherness
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I don't think the changing room will have big enough walls for all those articles. Plus the stadium managers will not be happy with all the pin holes.

On a serious note I can't help but think if playing with your team mates and putting on your countries shirt can't bring you together maybe you should be at home. I don't think all rugby players are stupid and some reading those articles might think they have a point. People might not like it but some of the players in the squad will know they have little chance of winning all those articles do is confirm it. Prehaps beating team morale before they even take the field.
 
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they were saying on radio sport that now that these journo's had talked to Shag as head coach rather than with Henry it was pretty obvious he was not a fan of rotation.

Looks like he has a 22 he's happy with and will give them a run until they prove unworthy or get injured.

Not un happy that nonu is dropping off (as i think we needs new blood) but dont think SBW is right inside smith. you have to guys who break the first tackle and like to offload. you need to pair one or the other with someone more hard running to offload too. this IMO is why nonu and smith worked well together as if nonu didn't break the line on his own he would pop up on smiths shoulder for a second crack.

In the current squad it would be interesting to see ellison outside SBW...what other 2nd 5 options do we have other than nonu and SBW?
 
Saintjay said:
I don't think the changing room will have big enough walls for all those articles. Plus the stadium managers will not be happy with all the pin holes.

On a serious note I can't help but think if playing with your team mates and putting on your countries shirt can't bring you together maybe you should be at home. I don't think all rugby players are stupid and some reading those articles might think they have a point. People might not like it but some of the players in the squad will know they have little chance of winning all those articles do is confirm it. Prehaps beating team morale before they even take the field.
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You really don't get it do you? Maybe it's an Irish think but we play better with a chip on our shoulder. When I say about togetherness I mean it makes you feel like it's you guys against the world trust me it's been used on me before. Also it's one thing to doubt yourself it's an entirely different thing to see some journalist who doesn't have a clue make a ridiculous criticism of you you don't get depressed about it you go do something about it.
 
I've never bought that newspaper on the wall bullshit myself. If you're underdogs you'll know yourself and should be able to motivate yourself enough. Simple as.
 
TRF_Feicarsinn said:
I've never bought that newspaper on the wall bullshit myself. If you're underdogs you'll know yourself and should be able to motivate yourself enough. Simple as.
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The Lions used newspaper cuttings on the 1997 South Africa tour (skip to 2:40 on video)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wc3S6iGmUjI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
 
I know but when they see people are writing them off they will get hungry, motivated and above all
angry. They know they have nothing to lose. That said we didn't have a motivation problem it was a coaching one. Men like Brian O'Driscoll certainly don't lack that. We'll still get hammered in the next test
 
big ginger 8 said:
You really don't get it do you? Maybe it's an Irish think but we play better with a chip on our shoulder. When I say about togetherness I mean it makes you feel like it's you guys against the world trust me it's been used on me before. Also it's one thing to doubt yourself it's an entirely different thing to see some journalist who doesn't have a clue make a ridiculous criticism of you you don't get depressed about it you go do something about it.
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I do get it. I am sure it is a great tool if used for close tight evenly matched teams to try and give them that edge when involved in a close contest. Firing up your team like a bunch of raging bulls has little benefit unless they have the skills and the ability to back it up. The difference with this is that I am saying no matter how angry or how much of a chip on your shoulder, most of the team probably know they do not have much of a chance. Most of the rugby world and most on this forum do not give the Irish a hope. All those articles do is confirm it and I see them being of little use in this instance. The result from last week would have done little for the self-belief. The last thing I would want is the players starting to mutter that they are being seen as a joke and the tour is a waste of time.
 
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irelandfan123 said:
time to blow it what little v money I have on Ireland :)
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33/1 are quite attractive odds!

Anyways, I'm happy to see New Zealand stick with the same team (barring the injury enforced changes). I'm hoping to see Cane get a good 20 mins off the bench to give him a taste of test rugby. I'd imagine they may look at making a couple of changes for the 3rd test (if they win this test comfortably), though I'm all for rewarding players who have played well, so wouldn't be disappointed if they picked a similar team next week too (assuming of course they all play well this week!).
 
TRF_Darwin said:
33/1 are quite attractive odds!

Anyways, I'm happy to see New Zealand stick with the same team (barring the injury enforced changes). I'm hoping to see Cane get a good 20 mins off the bench to give him a taste of test rugby. I'd imagine they may look at making a couple of changes for the 3rd test (if they win this test comfortably), though I'm all for rewarding players who have played well, so wouldn't be disappointed if they picked a similar team next week too (assuming of course they all play well this week!).
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That's true. At those odds if you place a bet of 1000 you'll get absolutely nothing back.
 
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Ireland Team: 1. Cian Healy 2. Rory Best 3. Mike Ross 4. Donnacha Ryan 5. Dan Tuohy 6. Kevin McLaughlin 7. Sean O'Brien 8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray 10. Johnny Sexton 11. Andrew Trimble 12. Gordon D'arcy 13. Brian O'Driscoll 14. Fergus McFadden 15. Rob Kearney

Subs: 16. Sean Cronin 17. Declan Fitzpatrick 18. Donncha O'Callaghan 19. Peter O'Mahony 20. Eoin Reddan 21. Ronan O'Gara 22. Simon Zebo
 
So four changes for Ireland if I can count correctly - Ross for Fitzpatrick, McLaughlin for O'Mahony, Trimble for Zebo, and D'Arcy for Earls. I have to say this looks like a slightly stronger team than last week, mainly due to the inlcusion of Ross at prop. Can't say I've seen a huge amount of McLaughlin, and I'm somewhat surprised to see him included ahead of O'Mahony. D'Arcy isn't the greatest 12 in the world, but at least he is a genuine midfield back, who has years and years of experience playing alongside O'Driscoll! Trimble I think is an upgrade over Zebo - not that I think Zebo did anything particularly wrong in the 1st test, but rather I've been impressed with Trimble over the last couple of years, and though he should have been starting last weekend too....
 
I hope that Cruden gets a run with Smith rather than having to come on outside Weepu and get his dog tucker slow motion service, the two Aaron's carve up for Manawatu I'd love to see it for the AB's. Would be the first Manawatu halfback pairing to combine in the black jersey since Mark Donaldson and Doug Rollerson way back in the early 80's too.

AB's lack a bit of physicality with Thompson at 6, the Irish would be wise to keep it tight I would think.
 
donmcdazzle said:
I hope that Cruden gets a run with Smith rather than having to come on outside Weepu and get his dog tucker slow motion service, the two Aaron's carve up for Manawatu I'd love to see it for the AB's. Would be the first Manawatu halfback pairing to combine in the black jersey since Mark Donaldson and Doug Rollerson way back in the early 80's too.

AB's lack a bit of physicality with Thompson at 6, the Irish would be wise to keep it tight I would think.
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I'd love to see that too - I'd certainly prefer if Smith stays on for the full 80 mins! Hopefully Cruden gets a good 20-30 mins this week, but I'd prefer if it was SBW at 12, rather than Carter. Cruden is a big boy now, and I'm sure he will survive without having Carter outside him (and in reality if Cruden is starting at 10 in a test he most likely wont have Carter outside him).

It is true that the AB's loose physicality with Thomson, but Thomson does bring other attributes to the fold. Given McCaw isn't as fast or as strong as the breakdown as he used to be, I can see an advantage in having someone like Thomson starting at 6. Don't get me wrong, I'd certainly prefer a fit Vito (or even better a fit Kaino!), but I'm not as against the idea of Thomson at 6 as I have been previously.
 
I'd say thats a somewhat closer to a best possible team Murray's inclusion is complete BS though.
 

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