Spring Tour: New Zealand vs Ireland - 2nd Test. (16/6/2012, 07:35 GMT)

[Larksea]

I'd be over the moon if Messam gets called in but I think if it was going to happen it would have already been done. Should have been in from day 1.

My bet is Read is ok and Cane will come onto the bench. A bit of a head knock wont stop Read.

 

[Peat]

He can play while wearing a jersey with an 8 on the back

He has played a few matches for Canterbury and the Crusaders over the years at 8, and covered there at times for the AB's (don't think he has had any starts though). He is certainly not a genuine number 8 by any means, but would do a solid job in the position (he would probably only pack at 8 on attacking scrums, with Thomson at 8 on defensive scrums...).

As long as he can control a ball at the back of the scrum, it'll be fine to a point I guess. But I'd avoid doing it in any competitive game as there's a few issues with not fielding a real 8.

That said... I'm contemplating betting my life savings on this one. So it'd probably be fine.

 

[nickdnz]

Can't help but feel providing Read is alright, that it's time for 6. McCaw, 7. Cane, 8. Read. It's been talked about before, but everyone has realised for a while that Richie McCaw can't continue his career much longer at openside. It relies too heavily on being the first to the breakdown and to be honest, I think Pocock and Brussow are young enough to meet the physical demands needed at openside. Robbie Deans is going on about Pocock being the best pilferer he's ever seen and while I think McCaw was better at it 3-4 seasons ago, now he's not. He should work on his ball running as right now I never feel he's especially ineffective in that area, but he could make a worthy replacement for Kaino if Vito fails to step up.

 

[Darwin]

As long as he can control a ball at the back of the scrum, it'll be fine to a point I guess. But I'd avoid doing it in any competitive game as there's a few issues with not fielding a real 8.

That said... I'm contemplating betting my life savings on this one. So it'd probably be fine.

Yeah, he is generally fine at the back of an AB's / Crusaders scrum. In saying that, I think I would be fine controlling the ball at the back of an AB's / Crusaders scrum (though I probably wouldn't add a lot of weight....).

 

[Peat]

Yeah, he is generally fine at the back of an AB's / Crusaders scrum. In saying that, I think I would be fine controlling the ball at the back of an AB's / Crusaders scrum (though I probably wouldn't add a lot of weight....).

You say that, but the Irish might be calling up Tony Buckley. Yeah. That'd teach you.

Seriously though, the odds are only 1/100... that is basically free money if you've got a couple of grand sitting around, best damn investment you'll get on a week's use of your money...

 

[Larksea]

personally I would think playing McCaw or Thompson at #8 is a bad idea

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7079900/Kieran-Read-concussion-speculation-squashed

Read confirmed fine to start, so we'll see 6 Thomson, 7 McCaw, 8 Read with Cane on the bench, probably replacing Thomson after around 55-60 minutes.

 

[irelandfan123]

Just watched the last match, I can draw a few positives for Ireland:
Kearney was great
Brian O'Driscoll ate through a mountain of defensive work
Rory Best was great looked really sharp as did O'Brien
Sonny Bill Williams looked like he was getting bullied around the park
Fitzpatrick looked solid for a first cap
And some really nice breakdown work in the early second half

Negatives:
We just lost 42-10
Looked below par defensively
we got bullied by the back three
Sexton and Murray adding stupid kicks to nothing really f**ked us
Murray was slow
injuries are gunna hurt next time round even more than they have
and Carter looks as good as ever which is terrifying

 

[Darwin]

Just watched the last match, I can draw a few positives for Ireland:
Kearney was great
Brian O'Driscoll ate through a mountain of defensive work
Rory Best was great looked really sharp as did O'Brien
Sonny Bill Williams looked like he was getting bullied around the park
Fitzpatrick looked solid for a first cap
And some really nice breakdown work in the early second half

Negatives:
We just lost 42-10
Looked below par defensively
we got bullied by the back three
Sexton and Murray adding stupid kicks to nothing really f**ked us
Murray was slow
injuries are gunna hurt next time round even more than they have
and Carter looks as good as ever which is terrifying

Agree with most of that, apart from the bit highlighted. How exactly did SBW look like he was being bullied? But he made huge yards running straight in the midfield, normally getting well past the advantage line. He made a number of powerful tackles in defense too. His handling certainly let him down on more than one occasion, but I didn't get the impression he was being 'bullied' at all.....

Anyways.... not expecting to see too many changes for the AB's. I wouldn't change the tight-five, and even if Mealamu is fit I would persist with Elliot on the bench as he looked solid when he came on (and it won't hurt Mealamu to have a good rest). Thomson will obviously come in for Vito, with Cane on the bench. I don't expect any changes in the backline, though they may be tempted to give Ben Smith a start on the right wing.

 

[HB Scot]

The fact the SBW attracted three tacklers at a time freed up so much room elsewhere which the AB's exploited to great effect. Not sure how this could be interpreted as beking bullied.

 

[Dizzy]

Lol, that's funny, I remember seeing SBW getting stopped pretty much right on the advantage line or as soon as he made contact. He didn't really make huge yards to be honest.
But he definitely wasn't bullied.

 

[big ginger 8]

Did Gilroy run over Kidney's dog or something?

Worse he's from Ulster.

With a tractor with spiked wheels :lol:

In fairness, Earls was the only FB cover there, and Gilroy's not exactly an expert there...

I know but I don't really see the point in calling up Duffy we know what he'll offer already he's solid and dependable but not good enough for international level. I'd honestly rather someone like Gilroy or D. Kearney tried there. Even Conway or O'Hallorn.

On SBW. I was worried every time he had the ball. Not because he was playing especially well but because he's a potential gamebreaker and can cut a defense open in a split second. Of course so many of the New Zealanders are gamebreakers I was worried a lot....

 

[irelandfan123]

From what I saw at least in the first 30 was Bill Williams getting thrown about by Fitzpatrick, healy totalled him, getting held up by irish defenders and he just ran aimlessly at nothing with no real contribution to the first half bar 1 good offload and losing the ball in the 22

When I watched it, it was 4 am so I'm may not have been completely on the ball so it wasn't as bad as I made out but he was the weak link in a very strong backline. If I was Hansen I would have Nonu in there

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Declan Kidney:
We had two debutants at tight-head, it is a pity that we have to be using the Irish team to give them experience. In fairness, they went out there and gave it their best shot and they will be better for it.

Kidney has an interesting take on things. Obviously in his eyes Ronan Loughney's 103 appearances for Connacht and Declan Fitzpatrick's 64 appearances for Ulster don't count as enough club experience. Likewise, I would have thought the only way for a player to gain international experience is for the coach to, you know, pick him? That was hardly possible when Kidney persisted with the over the hill John Hayes and the imposter Tony Buckle for so long. He has a chance to cap Jamie Hagan in 2010/11 (when he was on form) and never took it. He waited a couple of years before trusting Mike Ross.

Kidney is so out of touch it's not even funny.

 

[irelandfan123]

Declan Kidney:
We had two debutants at tight-head, it is a pity that we have to be using the Irish team to give them experience. In fairness, they went out there and gave it their best shot and they will be better for it.

Kidney has an interesting take on things. Obviously in his eyes Ronan Loughney's 103 appearances for Connacht and Declan Fitzpatrick's 64 appearances for Ulster don't count as enough club experience. Likewise, I would have thought the only way for a player to gain international experience is for the coach to, you know, pick him? That was hardly possible when Kidney persisted with the over the hill John Hayes and the imposter Tony Buckle for so long. He has a chance to cap Jamie Hagan in 2010/11 (when he was on form) and never took it. He waited a couple of years before trusting Mike Ross.

Kidney is so out of touch it's not even funny.

He is a joke he is blaming the provinces to save his own neck and I bet the media will eat it up too
And if he was even looking at the provinces he might actually make the right choices instead of picking names out of a hat full of munster players

 

[coonor]

Declan Kidney:
We had two debutants at tight-head, it is a pity that we have to be using the Irish team to give them experience. In fairness, they went out there and gave it their best shot and they will be better for it.

Kidney has an interesting take on things. Obviously in his eyes Ronan Loughney's 103 appearances for Connacht and Declan Fitzpatrick's 64 appearances for Ulster don't count as enough club experience. Likewise, I would have thought the only way for a player to gain international experience is for the coach to, you know, pick him? That was hardly possible when Kidney persisted with the over the hill John Hayes and the imposter Tony Buckle for so long. He has a chance to cap Jamie Hagan in 2010/11 (when he was on form) and never took it. He waited a couple of years before trusting Mike Ross.

Kidney is so out of touch it's not even funny.

I just don't understand Kidney! He didn't have to pick Zebo, he could have picked Gilroy who has 2 years experience at high level rugby including a Heineken Cup Final. At the end of the day you just have to look at other international teams who pick players based on ability and how they are doing so well. How else are we supposed to develop experienced players at this level when players like O'Callaghan, who not only are second choice at their clubs but offer nothing to the team and are holding back potential high class players.

 

[Peat]

Declan Kidney:
We had two debutants at tight-head, it is a pity that we have to be using the Irish team to give them experience. In fairness, they went out there and gave it their best shot and they will be better for it.

Kidney has an interesting take on things. Obviously in his eyes Ronan Loughney's 103 appearances for Connacht and Declan Fitzpatrick's 64 appearances for Ulster don't count as enough club experience. Likewise, I would have thought the only way for a player to gain international experience is for the coach to, you know, pick him? That was hardly possible when Kidney persisted with the over the hill John Hayes and the imposter Tony Buckle for so long. He has a chance to cap Jamie Hagan in 2010/11 (when he was on form) and never took it. He waited a couple of years before trusting Mike Ross.

Kidney is so out of touch it's not even funny.

If that's the most complementary thing he has to say about Fitzpatrick's scrummaging, I'm not sure we were watching the same match either...

 

[Darwin]

Vito ruled out for the next month (hence the rest of the series) with his knee injury. Thomson confirmed to start at 6 with Cane to get his debut from the bench. As predicted, Messam has been called into the squad (though will only join them next week).

 

[Larksea]

"Chiefs player Messam will train with the All Blacks in Hamilton next week ahead of the third test at Waikato Stadium. Messam was omitted from the original 35-player training squad for the series but Hansen said that had nothing to do with his ability.
"We said right at the beginning that we knew as much as needed to know about Liam and there was no point in bringing him into the camp," Hansen said. "We wanted to learn about Luke and young Brad Shields because we didn't know anything about them and both are quality young men. We also said we would bring people in outside of that 35. Liam has had a very good season. He's been consistent. He deserves his opportunity if he gets one."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10812484

shame for Vito but good stuff for Messam, shame he may not get gametime though - hope he does.

 

[antipodean]

Just watched the last match, I can draw a few positives for Ireland:
Kearney was great
Brian O'Driscoll ate through a mountain of defensive work
Rory Best was great looked really sharp as did O'Brien
Sonny Bill Williams looked like he was getting bullied around the park
Fitzpatrick looked solid for a first cap
And some really nice breakdown work in the early second half

Ireland's best players were O'Brien, Best, Healy and Kearney. Particularly the first two, they were standouts.
SBW did what was asked of him: He carried more than anyone else and was defensively sound. As others have pointed out, he attracted defenders which made space (when the All Blacks managed to recycle quickly).

The only thing saving Ireland from a hiding this weekend will be the weather.