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Spring Tour: New Zealand vs Ireland - 2nd Test. (16/6/2012, 07:35 GMT)

When you lose your grip you don't stop pushing. The scrum was purposely wheeled around by Ireland, honestly, just look at their feet. They're shuffling sideways from the get go.

It's clutching at straws quite a bit, I think. At the end of they day there are things that both teams could've/shouldn't have been penalised for. As I noted earlier, in the last fifteen the Irish kept sending a player far through and beyond the ruck to block NZ defenders, almost blatantly.

Thats true but it still should have been penalty at him not binding never mind the wheeling
I do agree though it is clutching at straws more so for the unbinding of the flanker and the knock on but there is some creditably with the first scrum penalty, but there is no point going on about it, Ireland will be better for this
 
Thats true but it still should have been penalty at him not binding never mind the wheeling
I do agree though it is clutching at straws more so for the unbinding of the flanker and the knock on but there is some creditably with the first scrum penalty, but there is no point going on about it, Ireland will be better for this

It's an interesting one - which offence occurred 'first'?

In other news, Ali Williams is out for six to eight weeks. Hopefully he'll miss out on the Championship squad. No replacement is being called up for the next match, so presumably Romano will just slot into the reserves, or possibly in for Retalick.
 
Thats true but it still should have been penalty at him not binding never mind the wheeling
I do agree though it is clutching at straws more so for the unbinding of the flanker and the knock on but there is some creditably with the first scrum penalty, but there is no point going on about it, Ireland will be better for this

Knock on? Are you referring to the video where the ball comes squirting out the side of the ruck and McCaw picks it up? ( I'm really not sure what the point of having this on the video was...)

It's an interesting one - which offence occurred 'first'?

In other news, Ali Williams is out for six to eight weeks. Hopefully he'll miss out on the Championship squad. No replacement is being called up for the next match, so presumably Romano will just slot into the reserves, or possibly in for Retalick.

It sucks when players get injured, but I have to say I'm not unhappy with this news! Romano looks like he will get his debut off the bench next week. As to who will replace Williams for the Rugby Championship (if he is not fit)... I'm not sure. There are plenty of options: my choice would be Bekhuis or Eaton, but the likes of Hoeata, Donnelly, Broadhurst, and Clarke all have their supporters too.
 
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Knock on? Are you referring to the video where the ball comes squirting out the side of the ruck and McCaw picks it up? ( I'm really not sure what the point of having this on the video was...)
Knock on/ball going forward, well as I said it was clutching at straws, but some people think that scrum that Nigel Owens awarded a penalty to NZ for Ireland turning the scrum was a turning point in the game and this was the best image of that scrum I could find so people could get a better look at what is happening. The video was just to show a "controversial" decision. Although I reckon blame was down to Ireland all blacks down a man with 8 mins to go should have been a win All blacks showed balls to win it
 
Knock on/ball going forward, well as I said it was clutching at straws, but some people think that scrum that Nigel Owens awarded a penalty to NZ for Ireland turning the scrum was a turning point in the game and this was the best image of that scrum I could find so people could get a better look at what is happening. The video was just to show a "controversial" decision. Although I reckon blame was down to Ireland all blacks down a man with 8 mins to go should have been a win All blacks showed balls to win it

I agree - in fact I made a comment in this thread with 8 mins to go that it was "Irelands game to lose". I can see why Ireland was penalized in the scrum in question, but equally I can see that NZ possibly could have been penalized. As I am no expert on scrummaging matters I will leave it to those more learned in the dark arts of scrummaging to analyse and discuss ;)
 
It sucks when players get injured, but I have to say I'm not unhappy with this news! Romano looks like he will get his debut off the bench next week. As to who will replace Williams for the Rugby Championship (if he is not fit)... I'm not sure. There are plenty of options: my choice would be Bekhuis or Eaton, but the likes of Hoeata, Donnelly, Broadhurst, and Clarke all have their supporters too.

I'd imagine it would probably be either Eaton or Hoeata, with Donnelly next in line. Course there's a chance Williams will be back for it anyway.

On the plus side, for the Rugby Championship all teams will have fairly inexperienced locks all round, I think. Horwill is our for a while now, and obviously SA lost Matfield and Botha.
 
I really thought Ireland were hard done by in that scrum... I know the rules and all that its just NZ has gotten away with that exact thing on many occasions when we had dominance over the opposition. Pretty unlucky on their account especially so with that referee.

That was the defining moment for me in the game had we not got that decision i couldnt of seen us winning that.
 
What frustrates me if teams holding the ball at the back of the scrum instead of just clearing it - there is no benefit, and more often than not you lose possession somehow. It's just stupid play.
 
Here's a thought Argentina in the coming international championship. How is the NZ 8 going to cope against them? France was beaten by theirre second stringers. Will be intresting.

Im picking Australia to come last with Argentina ahead of them.... NZ vs SA to decide it. I have not looked at the home and away draw whoever plays argentina at home will be in for a big game.
 
Here's a thought Argentina in the coming international championship. How is the NZ 8 going to cope against them? France was beaten by theirre second stringers. Will be intresting.

Im picking Australia to come last with Argentina ahead of them.... NZ vs SA to decide it. I have not looked at the home and away draw whoever plays argentina at home will be in for a big game.

All teams play each other both at home and away (hence Argentina has a home match against all three of the other teams)...

Right a few random thoughts on the match.

I thought Ireland stepped up massively from last week. While it is probably true the AB's didn't play as well as last week, the main reason for this is that Ireland didn't let them play well. In general they weren't missing tackles, they weren't making silly errors, and they were forcing NZ errors by putting NZ under immense pressure at times. The standouts from Ireland for me were the front row (especially in the second half), O'Brien, Sexton, and O'Driscoll. I though Ryan looked pretty good again at lock (still not convinced on Touhy though), and Heaslip looked pretty solid at number 8 too.

For New Zealand there were a number of solid performances, but not too many standout performances. Franks and Woodcock were solid, while I though Hore was a little quiet. Rettalick got through a lot of work, though I'd like to see him have a few more runs with ball in hand. As I mentioned before I was actually very impressed with Thomson. I wouldn't have thought this tight game would have suited Thomson (who prefers a more open game), but he was solid in defense, and it was great to see him put his head down and make some hard yards with ball in hand (instead of running ridiculously upright as he can at times). McCaw didn't have a great game with his handling (in fact he had a shocking game with his handling...), but he did force a crucial turnover at one stage, and was quite effect running with the ball (when he managed to catch it). It was astonishing how much ball running he did in this match! Read looked good (as always) before he went off. Not sure the extent of Reads injury, but if he is not 100% he needs to be rested next week, as we can't afford to lose him for any substantial period of time. I questioned before the match whether Cane was the 2nd best 7 in the country, and he responded with a very impressive debut off the bench. His ball running was very dynamic, and it will be interesting to see whether he gets a start next week if Reads injury is serious.

I thought Aaron Smith had another very strong game, fully deserving his try, and would have been close to man of the match for me. Carter too had a pretty good game - his goal-kicking was accurate, and he defended particularly well. SBW's handling was better this week (though he did drop one pass early in the game), and though he looked threatening at times he was well contained by the Irish. I wonder whether they will give Nonu a start next week? The rest of the backs got little ball to work with, hence were pretty quiet (and I've already discussed Savea and Guildford). Dagg made a couple of booming clearing kicks again, but his rash challenge late in the game could have (and perhaps should have) cost the AB's the match. It will be interesting to see what they do with the back-three, as there is the option of including either Ben Smith or Hosea Gear (or both).
 
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Wow much better defence from the Irish last night. Both teams didn't really play bad at all. Apart from handling errors, the All Blacks looked alight. Though, not as imaginative on attack (added to that the great Irish defence).

Sonny Bill did better too (although he REALLY REALLY needs to cut out dropping the ball WITHOUT ANY PRESSURE near him). I thought we didn't employ our wings enough (Savea disappeared altogether).

Otherwise, good to see an intense game and our guys keep learning how to win tough-not-so-fast-paced games the last couple of years. I think All Blacks of the pre-Graham Henry/Steve Hansen era of old would've gotten discouraged by the lack of free flowing rugby and wilted.

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I've said this before and I'll keep saying it. We are shooting ourselves in the foot by playing night games in winter. Not at all conducive to the type of rugby we want to play. We are so much better on a dry fast track, if we have to play night games in winter they should all be in the indoor stadium. This has made me go crazy for ages.
 
It will be interesting to see what changes are made for the third game. On one hand Hansen and co. will want to play a lot better than they did last night, but there are a few guys who haven't had any game time yet. I think Nonu will get a start, and Romano should be on the bench by default. Cane definitely deserves another go, possibly with McCaw at 6 and Thomson on the bench, depending on whether Read is injured.

Tameifuna and Barrett might not make it on the field at all, especially if we're on the back foot in the last 20 minutes again.
 
Very interesting game, Interesting as the AB's almost lost without playing too badly. Though there were some points of interest for me.

#1 has to be Julean Savea, such a great Debut but was almost out of sight for most of the game and made mistakes when he was in the play. I guess you could say this was his first real taste of test rugby. I can imagine this game would have been a lot smother for the AB's with the sure hand and head for tight test matches of Kahui. And though Zac is doing ok I think they miss Jane on the right as well. AB's I think will be forced into action for this position in the 3rd test. I would either go with Ben smith on the right and Move Zac to the left or bring Nonu onto the wing. Even on the wing Nonu wont be out of the game for so long, Neither would smith. There is Gear as well but he's also prone to going missing and he's kinda just like Savea just not as good.

#2 Adam Thomson - I'm not his biggest fan if his but he did have a good game, better than Vito last week, though I still think with him at 6 the AB's really miss a physical edge and with Read off I think that really showed.

#3 Sam Cane looked every bit a test match player and was easily one of the Best AB's on the park in the 2nd half. For me that just makes me wonder when we are going to seriously hear talk about Moving McCaw to 6. Not just his speed around the park and energy with the ball but see how he hits guys in the tackle and drives them back around the ruck? He's not a huge guy but honestly I think he has a more physical around the advantage line than Thomson. I think so far In super rugby I've seen Can smash and drive back Burger (some time ago/last season) then early this season he smashed Kaino and drove him backwards. Ian Fooster has been grooming this kid for a few years now and maybe had a say in his suprise selection this season but it has not been without reward.

#4 Retalick was very impressive I thought, brilliant taking his lineout ball and stole one too. Lots of work around the park, not so much with the ball but can't really fault his game. Aaron Smith had another good showing too.

#5 Key for the last test is rediscovering the time and space they need for carter and the backline, Carters space vanished and all the other backs hardly featured.

#6 Scrum was an issue but I dont think it's long term, it was stronger in the first half just lost it's way after some changes. If anything they should have put Hika on he woukd have added to the scrums and Hore had a very quiet game anyway.
 
Excellent game. I thought Ireland were very unlucky and you gotta feel for them. Great stuff from both teams. Shouldve ended in Ireland winning but you got to really earn your win against a team like the ABs.
 
Darcy with a calf strain and Heaslip with a fracture to his right index finger. Heaslip will be a big loss.
 
Heaslip is a massive loss, he's on great form ad is a true leader in the pack. Wallace is on good form but he's not what we need. I thought O'gara looked good with Sexton so starting them may be something to look at. If not I would put McFadden at 12 and promote Zebo to wing with Cave on the bench. However a Cave and O'Driscoll partnership is definitely an option.

In the back row we will probably have no choice but to play SOB at 8, but I would play Henry at 7 in order to really keep a scavenger their. With O'Mahonys's versatility and impact of the bench, I would leave him there.
 
They've yet to beat NZ...
tough, tough loss.
Fantastic level of play though, didn't see THAT coming from Ireland !
 
3rd test, want to see ROG - sexton - BOD, and with a bit of luck redden starting, either that or cave starts
 

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