Spring Tour: Australia vs Wales - 1st Test (09/06/2012, 10:00 GMT)

[Bluemoon]

What did Lydiate do wrong then. Warburton was decent, not up his usual standard but not terrible, Faletau was more quiet than bad

Palu was much more noticeable in the rucks than him. As was Higginbotham. Other than Genia, Higginbotham was my MOTM, very physical all game and bagged a try.

I'd play Warbs, Lydiate and Ryan Jones next match unless Faletau pace improves.

Warbs isn't match fit and played well today, he will only be better next week.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I still stand by that Wales really missed out on Ben Morgan because he is deffo a better 8 than Toby. Faletau went MIA today.

 

[SelimNiai]

We did, I think we all assumed he'd pick us and slot right into the No.8 spot. Hopefully Toby will see the replay and come to Melbourne all fired up, we need him to be.

 

[Draggs]

Toby is still developing. Wasn't his best match, but to dismiss him already is premature.
It is tough to label individual players as the problem. Really the whole side looked tired and simply not on the same level as the Australians.

 

[retardedgenius]

bet you welshies were expecting a cakewalk based on scotland's game on tuesday! on the plus side the last scrum in the scotland game proved that we wont need too stronger forwards for the lions next year to demolish the aussies, this is my forwards pack so far. 1 cole, 2 hartley, 3 murray (for the last scrum alone) 4 gray 5 croft? 6,7,8 too close but between denton,ferris,obrien,lydiet,warburton,rennie,morgan

 

[psychic duck]

bet you welshies were expecting a cakewalk based on scotland's game on tuesday! on the plus side the last scrum in the scotland game proved that we wont need too stronger forwards for the lions next year to demolish the aussies, this is my forwards pack so far. 1 cole, 2 hartley, 3 murray (for the last scrum alone) 4 gray 5 croft? 6,7,8 too close but between denton,ferris,obrien,lydiet,warburton,rennie,morgan

this isn't a Lions thread

 

[SelimNiai]

this isn't a Lions thread

wait, you could read that?

 

[big ginger 8]

bet you welshies were expecting a cakewalk based on scotland's game on tuesday! on the plus side the last scrum in the scotland game proved that we wont need too stronger forwards for the lions next year to demolish the aussies, this is my forwards pack so far. 1 cole, 2 hartley, 3 murray (for the last scrum alone) 4 gray 5 croft? 6,7,8 too close but between denton,ferris,obrien,lydiet,warburton,rennie,morgan

That pack makes no sense.

 

[Draggs]

bet you welshies were expecting a cakewalk based on scotland's game on tuesday! on the plus side the last scrum in the scotland game proved that we wont need too stronger forwards for the lions next year to demolish the aussies, this is my forwards pack so far. 1 cole, 2 hartley, 3 murray (for the last scrum alone) 4 gray 5 croft? 6,7,8 too close but between denton,ferris,obrien,lydiet,warburton,rennie,morgan

...what?

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 750, align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]Comments[/TD]
[TD]Rating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD]Leigh Halfpenny[/TD]
[TD]Perfect off the tee, lively in attack and consistent in defence. Moved to wing in the first half and looked dangerous as ever.[/TD]
[TD]7/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD]Alex Cuthbert[/TD]
[TD]Our only attacking threat, made numerous runs and scored our only try, nearly scored another near the end. Better in defence than many thought.[/TD]
[TD]7/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD]Jonathan Davies[/TD]
[TD]Improving in defence and able to find and exploit gaps, but still cannot draw a man and pass. Constant basic errors prevent Davies from getting to the next level.[/TD]
[TD]5.5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD]Scott Williams[/TD]
[TD]It was evident that Williams was not match fit. It was also evident that he isn't an inside centre. Our midfield was far too lateral, and we needed some structure there.[/TD]
[TD]5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[TD]George North[/TD]
[TD]Substituted due to injury in the first half, but made a nuisance of himself while on the field.[/TD]
[TD]+[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
[TD]Rhys Priestland[/TD]
[TD]Tried to copy Barnes' kick and chase game, with no success. Constant delayed passing allowed few opportunities to set up an attack.[/TD]
[TD]4.5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
[TD]Mike Phillips[/TD]
[TD]It is all or nothing with Mike, and today was the latter. The breakdown was a mess with Phillips slow to get there.[/TD]
[TD]4.5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD]Gethin Jenkins[/TD]
[TD]One of his poorer performances for Wales, Gethin simply looked fatigued from the long season.[/TD]
[TD]5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
[TD]Ken Owens[/TD]
[TD]Set piece aside, a poor match from Owens. At fault for Genia's try, and offered no impact in the loose.[/TD]
[TD]4/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
[TD]Adam Jones[/TD]
[TD]Another who needs a rest after the season. Solid in the scrum but offered little in the loose.[/TD]
[TD]5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]4[/TD]
[TD]Bradley Davies[/TD]
[TD]Offered little outside of the lineout, probably will be omitted from next week's 22.[/TD]
[TD]4.5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
[TD]Luke Charteris[/TD]
[TD]Luke seemed to be lacking on match fitness, and was not his recent, enforcing self.[/TD]
[TD]4/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
[TD]Dan Lydiate[/TD]
[TD]Yet another heavy hitting performance by Lydiate, 18 tackles made, 0 missed.[/TD]
[TD]7/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
[TD]Sam Warburton[/TD]
[TD]Hasn't played for 11 weeks and it was simply evident. Not as poor as many made him out to be, but certainly not first choice on recent form.[/TD]
[TD]5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
[TD]Toby Faletau[/TD]
[TD]Very quiet from Toby. Poor in defence and rarely used as a carrier.[/TD]
[TD]4.5/10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]16[/TD]
[TD]Matthew Rees[/TD]
[TD]A massive step-up from last week. Carried well and almost certain to start[/TD]
[TD]+[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]17[/TD]
[TD]Paul James[/TD]
[TD]On for only a few minutes, tough to call.[/TD]
[TD]N/A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]18[/TD]
[TD]Alun Wyn Jones[/TD]
[TD]His statistics indicate little involvement, but more noticeable around the field than Charteris.[/TD]
[TD]+[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]19[/TD]
[TD]Ryan Jones[/TD]
[TD]Good defence and carried well a few times. Good chance of starting next week.[/TD]
[TD]+[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]20[/TD]
[TD]Lloyd Williams[/TD]
[TD]Unused.[/TD]
[TD]N/A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]21[/TD]
[TD]James Hook[/TD]
[TD]Not a fullback, but his kicking seemed more planned than Priestland's.[/TD]
[TD]=[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]22[/TD]
[TD]Ashley Beck[/TD]
[TD]Broke through the defence to set up Cuthbert for his first international touch. Partially at fault for McCabe's try.[/TD]
[TD]=[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
My team for next week (assuming injuries to North and Williams): Hook, Cuthbert, Davies, Beck, Halfpenny, Priestland, Phillips; Jenkins, Rees, JonesAR, JonesAW, Ianto, Lydiate, Warburton, JonesR; Hibbard, James, Charteris, Tipuric, Webb (sorry Lloyd, not your fault), Biggar (if fit), Byrne/Bishop.

Wales MoTM: Alex Cuthbert (honourable mentions to Dan Lydiate and Leigh Halfpenny)
MoTM: Will Genia, with Higginbotham and Barnes very close.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Toby is still developing. Wasn't his best match, but to dismiss him already is premature.
It is tough to label individual players as the problem. Really the whole side looked tired and simply not on the same level as the Australians.

It's not the first time Toby has gone missing in action during a game, he's all gun ho but when a defence is up in his face (like someone else mentioned earlier) he is found wanting. He has ability but in the next text I dunno if I would start him.

bet you welshies were expecting a cakewalk based on scotland's game on tuesday! on the plus side the last scrum in the scotland game proved that we wont need too stronger forwards for the lions next year to demolish the aussies, this is my forwards pack so far. 1 cole, 2 hartley, 3 murray (for the last scrum alone) 4 gray 5 croft? 6,7,8 too close but between denton,ferris,obrien,lydiet,warburton,rennie,morgan

Living up to part of your username <_< , Cole is not even a loosehead and both Adam Jones and Dan Cole are better than Murray.

 

[Draggs]

It's not the first time Toby has gone missing in action during a game, he's all gun ho but when a defence is up in his face (like someone else mentioned earlier) he is found wanting. He has ability but in the next text I dunno if I would start him.

I wouldn't disagree with starting Ryan Jones. Faletau might offer a greater impact from the bench.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I wouldn't disagree with starting Ryan Jones. Faletau might offer a greater impact from the bench.

Then for me goes back to the old catch 22, if you have Faletau on the bench, can you have Tipuric on the bench?

 

[Draggs]

Then for me goes back to the old catch 22, if you have Faletau on the bench, can you have Tipuric on the bench?

Oh, forgot about that... Very tough call. Play them both against the Brumbies and see what they can do.
We could put both of them on the bench if Ryan covers second row, but I wouldn't do that.
I hope Gatland is back for the second test, will be good to have him back around. I just don't think Howley is cut out for head coach.

 

[psychic duck]

I just don't think Howley is cut out for head coach.

why have you jumped to that conclusion?

 

[Draggs]

why have you jumped to that conclusion?

Based on his performance as attack coach. We have shown little creativity in attack and relied upon Shane/Roberts/North/Cuthbert for the past few seasons.

 

[Darwin]

Throughly enjoyable game. Australia built a good lead, but Wales fought back well only for Australia to come right back at them. My random thoughts:

- Polota-Nau does some good things with ball and hand, and on defense, but make too many basic mistakes (at the lineout / handling errors). Moore needs to start next week, with Polota-Nau providing impact from the bench. Likewise I'd expect Rees to start for Wales next week, as he made a big impact when he came on.
- Robinson makes a huge difference to Australias scrum
- Australia's loose-forward trio largely got the better of Wales' trio (which I did not expect). Lydiate played well (as always), but I thought Higginbotham had a strong game too. Pocock go the better of Warburton: it was not that Warburton didn't play well, but you have to play exceptionally well to match Poocock. I thought Faletau had a pretty disappointing game, and was completely outplayed by Palu. Palu had one his best games in years - the fact he looks fit is ominous news for opposition teams!
- Genia showed why he is the best 9 in world rugby - he was absolute class. Phillips wasn't too bad, but it was a masterclass of halfback play by Genia.
- Priestland was very poor, and his knock-on cost Wales a try and the lead at a crucial stage in the game. In contrast Barnes had a very good game (after me suggesting before the match he has been poor all season!).
- Williams and Davies were ok in the midfield, but didn't really go that well in combination. Ideally I think the midfield should have a ball runner and a distributor, but they looked like two ball runners competing for turns running the ball to me, rather than a midfield trying to create space for each other or their team-mates. Beck made a nice impact when he came.
- I was happy to see McCabe have a good game for Australia, as he was (very unfairly in my opinion) slated for his play at the RWC. He is rock solid in defense, and looks much better outside a 10 who doesn't just give him the ball as a last resort! He runs great lines and times, and thoroughly deserved his try in my opinion.
- I thought Cuthbert was good, and North was a big loss for Wales, as he was causing Vuna a few issues. Halfpenny was very good, while Ashley-Cooper looked solid at the back for the Wallabies.

 

[Draggs]

Throughly enjoyable game. Australia built a good lead, but Wales fought back well only for Australia to come right back at them. My random thoughts:

- Polota-Nau does some good things with ball and hand, and on defense, but make too many basic mistakes (at the lineout / handling errors). Moore needs to start next week, with Polota-Nau providing impact from the bench. Likewise I'd expect Rees to start for Wales next week, as he made a big impact when he came on.
- Robinson makes a huge difference to Australias scrum
- Australia's loose-forward trio largely got the better of Wales' trio (which I did not expect). Lydiate played well (as always), but I thought Higginbotham had a strong game too. Pocock go the better of Warburton: it was not that Warburton didn't play well, but you have to play exceptionally well to match Poocock. I thought Faletau had a pretty disappointing game, and was completely outplayed by Palu. Palu had one his best games in years - the fact he looks fit is ominous news for opposition teams!
- Genia showed why he is the best 9 in world rugby - he was absolute class. Phillips wasn't too bad, but it was a masterclass of halfback play by Genia.
- Priestland was very poor, and his knock-on cost Wales a try and the lead at a crucial stage in the game. In contrast Barnes had a very good game (after me suggesting before the match he has been poor all season!).
- Williams and Davies were ok in the midfield, but didn't really go that well in combination. Ideally I think the midfield should have a ball runner and a distributor, but they looked like two ball runners competing for turns running the ball to me, rather than a midfield trying to create space for each other or their team-mates. Beck made a nice impact when he came.
- I was happy to see McCabe have a good game for Australia, as he was (very unfairly in my opinion) slated for his play at the RWC. He is rock solid in defense, and looks much better outside a 10 who doesn't just give him the ball as a last resort! He runs great lines and times, and thoroughly deserved his try in my opinion.
- I thought Cuthbert was good, and North was a big loss for Wales, as he was causing Vuna a few issues. Halfpenny was very good, while Ashley-Cooper looked solid at the back for the Wallabies.

I agree with this. I think we have the same midfield preference, Darwin. Ball player/Relief at 12, runner at 13.
After having another look at the Priestland knock on, it was a poor pass by Warburton (?), but cost us the lead.
AAC is a great player, regardless the number on his back. I would kill to have him outside Roberts or on the bench. I'll trade our Tuilagi for him, how about that, Waratahs?

@PD, Priestland and Phillips could be lower, I agree, but they hardly had a stable platform. Still poor matches by both.

 

[Darwin]

I agree with this. I think we have the same midfield preference, Darwin. Ball player/Relief at 12, runner at 13.After having another look at the Priestland knock on, it was a poor pass by Warburton (?), but cost us the lead.AAC is a great player, regardless the number on his back. I would kill to have him outside Roberts or on the bench. I'll trade our Tuilagi for him, how about that, Waratahs?@PD, Priestland and Phillips could be lower, I agree, but they hardly had a stable platform. Still poor matches by both.

I'm personally not too bothered whether the ball player is at 12 or 13; I think the most important thing is they need to complement each other. However, if you are going to have someone who is primarily a ball runner at 12 you must have a playmaker at halfback, otherwise your 10 have the sole responsibility for playmaking, which is too much to ask in my opinion. I'm fine with the Wallabies having McCabe at 12 for example, as Genia does a lot of playmaking from the halfback position. I think Wales are really lacking creative/playmaking options at 9, 10, and 12. Phillips is a very good halfback (world class when on form), but isn't exactly what I would describe as a playmaking halfback. He does create some options close to the ruck, but these are largely for himself rather than other players. Priestland has been pretty quiet in my opinion since the RWC (though I didn't see all of Wales' 6 nations games). Not sure what the solution is (or whether Wales even really need a solution - they are playing well for a very young team!) - Hook would offer some playmaking ability in the midfield, but I don't really think he is that great in the midfield (Do you think he will start at 10 next weekend?).

I really think Wales are missing Shane Williams - not for his ball running out wide / try scoring abilities, but rather for the creative ball running option he provided when he stepped into first receiver. He always seemed to spend a lot of time receiving the ball at first receiver, and always created good options for himself or others by taking the ball to (or perhaps more accurately across) the line. I think Wales also miss his ability to act as a second halfback and provide quick ruck ball when Mike Phillips was unavailable. Anyways, enough of the Shane Williams nostalgia....

EDIT: Looks like Sekope Kepu is in doubt for the 2nd test after injuring his hand. He would be a big loss for the Wallabies, as he was very solid. The Wallabies scrum should be ok if they bring in Dan Palmer at tighthead, but if they decide to play Alexander, Slipper, or (even worse) Ma'afu, they will really struggle at scrum time.

 

[Thingimubob]

The whole 'creative halfback' thing is why I want to see Webb get a chance, even if it's off the bench. He's always a danger for the Ospreys and I really think that he could give us the spark we need, much like Genia does for Australia. I reckon Beck can give us some creativity in midfield, we saw today he has a cracking offload on him, still think he should've started over Scott Williams today!

Agree with Darwin too, we're definitely missing Shane coming inside from his wing and taking pressure off 9 and 10.

 

[Draggs]

We really are lacking in true second five eighths. Owen Williams at Llanelli/Wales U20 is a converted first five, and also a decent size. Right now it seems we prefer Jamie Roberts/Cory Allen/Jack Dixon regardless of the age group. Priestland is hardly a controlling outside half, and Phillips, as you have said, isn't a playmaker.

Webb isn't bad, but he makes stupid errors (quick throw ins v Leinster, Barbarians, among others).

What Shane offered was time on the ball. He could make a little possession worth quite a bit. I think Alex Cuthbert is actually developing similarly, albeit a foot taller. Ever since the Six nations people have seemingly looked for reasons to drop him. His form in a poor Blues side hasn't been great, but he always gains ground for Wales, and is quite an intelligent runner.

2008 was a fine backline, Phillips, Hook, Henson, Shanklin. You had creative players who would cut right through the defence, and physical ones who would draw the defence in. Add Shane at his greatest, the defencively sound Mark Jones, and a world class Lee Byrne...