-
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
Spring Tour: Australia vs Wales - 1st Test (09/06/2012, 10:00 GMT)
- Thread starter Darwin
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2009
- Messages
- 1,878
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Phillips and Priestland wouldn't have had such a hard time if the forwards had actually shown up in that first half. We were completely outpaced, outmuscled and out thought for the majority of that match. Adam J, Charteris, Lydiate, Warburton and Faletau were particularly disappointing i thought.
We haven't faced such an intelligent side like this since we last played the Aussies. We're used to smashing through defences and soaking up direct attacks but when we face a side like Aus or NZ we struggle.
For the next i'd like to see these changes, things could change after the mid week game though:
Hook for Priestland
Beck for Scott W (injury), Hook always seems to plays better with a ball player outside him (Mermoz, Henson etc.).
AWJ for Charteris
Ryan J for Faletau
Harry Robinson/Alew Brew for George North (injury)
Tipuric for Charteris on the bench
Hibbard for Rees on the bench
Rhys Webb for Lloyd Williams on the bench (a bit harsh but i think we need Webb's pace)
I'd like Evans to be included but i don't know where to put him!
We haven't faced such an intelligent side like this since we last played the Aussies. We're used to smashing through defences and soaking up direct attacks but when we face a side like Aus or NZ we struggle.
For the next i'd like to see these changes, things could change after the mid week game though:
Hook for Priestland
Beck for Scott W (injury), Hook always seems to plays better with a ball player outside him (Mermoz, Henson etc.).
AWJ for Charteris
Ryan J for Faletau
Harry Robinson/Alew Brew for George North (injury)
Tipuric for Charteris on the bench
Hibbard for Rees on the bench
Rhys Webb for Lloyd Williams on the bench (a bit harsh but i think we need Webb's pace)
I'd like Evans to be included but i don't know where to put him!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2006
- Messages
- 13,888
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
WALES: Liam Williams; Harry Robinson, Andrew Bishop, Ashley Beck, Aled Brew; James Hook, Rhys Webb; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Rhodri Jones, Alun Wyn Jones (Captain), Luke Charteris, Josh Turnbull, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Shingler
REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Rhys Gill, Ian Evans, Gareth Delve, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Alex Cuthbert
Faletau is out of the tour with a broken hand. Delve has replaced him.
Medical Update: Toby Faletau â€" see above. George North has a haematoma to his thigh (dead leg), he will have intense treatment over the next couple of days to get him ready for this Saturday’s match. Scott Williams sustained a facial laceration which it is hoped will not prevent him from being available for selection next week.
REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Rhys Gill, Ian Evans, Gareth Delve, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Alex Cuthbert
Faletau is out of the tour with a broken hand. Delve has replaced him.
Medical Update: Toby Faletau â€" see above. George North has a haematoma to his thigh (dead leg), he will have intense treatment over the next couple of days to get him ready for this Saturday’s match. Scott Williams sustained a facial laceration which it is hoped will not prevent him from being available for selection next week.
Last edited:
TVH11
First XV
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,089
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Well I haven't seen the full game, but I caught the final 10 mins this morning. Saw enough in the final 10 to see where it all went wrong. Lots of silly unforced and forced errors??? Rucks and mauls looked a mess, but could have just been the minutes of the game I saw.
When is the midweek game, and is it being televised???
When is the midweek game, and is it being televised???
madflyhalf
Bench Player
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2010
- Messages
- 563
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Nice match, I predicted Wales to win, I v-bet on it, so the Wallabies won.
That's how it works for me.
What I saw yesterday was clear a quite tired welsh side who never threated Aus defence line bar 2 times they went close to score, 1 in the 1st half (a little obstruction both from 2 players and the ref, but it was substantially fine) and 1 in the 2nd half from where they actually score with Cuthbert. Maybe forward pass, but it was a beauty from Ashley Beck!
But also I saw a great Wallaby side, focused on the normal job for anyone, that little job that makes the final result look as a clear fenomenal work.
Close to the perfection: everyone did what they are supposed to do, based on position and situation.
A few keys of yesterday victory:
1) quick balls: Genia and Barnes were put always on the front foot, in the most perfect condition to fire their attack thanks to a great effort from the forwards. How?
IMO in these few SuperRugby months we've seen a new approach in the rucks, where body position of the man hitting the ruck has much changed in a "positive" style, takeoff direction, lower hips, legs driving up and it's more effective!
The Wallabies didn't do this way in the few past years, but the attention at the bd from referees has probably made more coaches working on this aspect (I've noticed it at the Brumbies and Reds this season).
I've found Welsh attacking rucks more men-piling-style, therefore slower than Aussie's ones, thanks also to the work made at bd by Pocock, TPN and Simmons, sometimes illegally, but IMO not so often as many thought.
Direct consequence of that was also an incredible defense larger in numbers than Wales' attacking line. At some stage I've notice 4 or 5 australians back in to the depth waiting for Welsh kicks that were forced by many defenders up front.
2) Welsh pairing centre: apart from the lack of creativity from the 10-12-13, 12 and 13 channel never threated too much Wallabies defence, no offloads (bar the beauty from Beck, too late though), no different angles movements, the real threat has been George North until he came off (a shame, hope he'll be there on saturday) because, IMO, the best quality of this player stays between his ears! Yes he's big, he's fast, but he's smart and he has a great vision and plays not only drove by instinct
In defence both centres were caught in no mans land a couple of times, Horne butchered a certain try, McCabe ran good angles and the simple structures of the 3 forwards with the fh running behind and getting the ball from them, put in troubles Wales.
3) Good set pieces... scrum was solid (until Dennis locked in, he probably and understandably has some difficult at test level as he isn't a real lock cover), lineout worked well also with TPN, that gives you great platforms from which launch attack
4) Adam Ashely-Cooper was superb under high balls, taking off pressure from a nervous debutant Vuna, always making the right decision on what to do. He should be more involved in attack, he's helluva player he needs to be in the 13 spot, but injuries...
Oh yeah.
And Sanchez.
Some team has Sanchez, some others not. They have to deal with it (him).
That's how it works for me.
What I saw yesterday was clear a quite tired welsh side who never threated Aus defence line bar 2 times they went close to score, 1 in the 1st half (a little obstruction both from 2 players and the ref, but it was substantially fine) and 1 in the 2nd half from where they actually score with Cuthbert. Maybe forward pass, but it was a beauty from Ashley Beck!
But also I saw a great Wallaby side, focused on the normal job for anyone, that little job that makes the final result look as a clear fenomenal work.
Close to the perfection: everyone did what they are supposed to do, based on position and situation.
A few keys of yesterday victory:
1) quick balls: Genia and Barnes were put always on the front foot, in the most perfect condition to fire their attack thanks to a great effort from the forwards. How?
IMO in these few SuperRugby months we've seen a new approach in the rucks, where body position of the man hitting the ruck has much changed in a "positive" style, takeoff direction, lower hips, legs driving up and it's more effective!
The Wallabies didn't do this way in the few past years, but the attention at the bd from referees has probably made more coaches working on this aspect (I've noticed it at the Brumbies and Reds this season).
I've found Welsh attacking rucks more men-piling-style, therefore slower than Aussie's ones, thanks also to the work made at bd by Pocock, TPN and Simmons, sometimes illegally, but IMO not so often as many thought.
Direct consequence of that was also an incredible defense larger in numbers than Wales' attacking line. At some stage I've notice 4 or 5 australians back in to the depth waiting for Welsh kicks that were forced by many defenders up front.
2) Welsh pairing centre: apart from the lack of creativity from the 10-12-13, 12 and 13 channel never threated too much Wallabies defence, no offloads (bar the beauty from Beck, too late though), no different angles movements, the real threat has been George North until he came off (a shame, hope he'll be there on saturday) because, IMO, the best quality of this player stays between his ears! Yes he's big, he's fast, but he's smart and he has a great vision and plays not only drove by instinct
In defence both centres were caught in no mans land a couple of times, Horne butchered a certain try, McCabe ran good angles and the simple structures of the 3 forwards with the fh running behind and getting the ball from them, put in troubles Wales.
3) Good set pieces... scrum was solid (until Dennis locked in, he probably and understandably has some difficult at test level as he isn't a real lock cover), lineout worked well also with TPN, that gives you great platforms from which launch attack
4) Adam Ashely-Cooper was superb under high balls, taking off pressure from a nervous debutant Vuna, always making the right decision on what to do. He should be more involved in attack, he's helluva player he needs to be in the 13 spot, but injuries...
Oh yeah.
And Sanchez.
Some team has Sanchez, some others not. They have to deal with it (him).
Last edited:
TrueSlawter
Bench Player
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2010
- Messages
- 584
- Country Flag
That squad should play well tbh, however why start Shingler at 8 when we have Delve? Imo Shinger at 6, Delve at 8 and Turnbull on the bench if they have them three. Also Rhodri Jones at 3 again should be interesting to see it goes better at the scrum.
As for the actual test match it started off well, some of the ref's decsions at scrum time were werid, early engagement by both it seemed near the start Wales pinged. Then after that nearly every scrum it looked to me (might have been s4c delay a bit) to engage early and nout happened. Regardless hopefully it all clicks in the next test. Also can we not play hook at 15 again, imo he should have gone to 10 and priestland to 15 as at least Priestland played there a fair bit for the Scarlets
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2006
- Messages
- 6,124
- Country Flag
I'm massively disapointed after this game! Wales were poor for much of the match, yet still had a genuine chance to win. Genia was something else, trully outstanding performance from him.
The big difference between the two teams was the breakdown. Apart from a 10min spell in the second half, Wales weren't able to disrupt Austrailia at all ruck time, resulting in an almost unlimited supply of quick ball for the dangerous Aus backs. Wales' ball on the other hand was almost constantly disrupted, which resulted in appalling ball for Phillips to deal with. Wales were guilty of not looking after the ball on a few occasions with the ball spilling out, but Aus (especially Pockok) did a great job of disrupting things.
I thought Warburton was waaay off the pace in the first half. One or two turnovers aside I thought he was blown away at the breakdown, and he was very slow getting back into the defensive line in the build-up to Aus' first try. He improved in the second half, but overall looked exactly what he was, lacking gametime. But it wasn't just Warburton, the rest of the forwards were slow and inaccurate at the breakdown. As predicted, we really missed Ian Evans' ferocity around the pitch, Alun Wyn Jones and Ryan Jones made a difference in this regard when they came on.
I thought Faletau had by far his worst game in a Welsh shirt. He was close to anonomous in all aspects of the game. I'd have replaced him for next week regardless of his injury, still a pitty he's out though. Great that Delve is getting a chance mind.
Even Gethin and Adam were poor, which is close to unheard of. The Welsh scrum was on top, but never in the right areas. Aus managed well on their own ball mind.
The backs had to deal with poor ball for the majority of the match, especially Phillips who was forced to clean up ball at ruck time. Still, Phillips was still very poor. His kicking game was rubbish (as was Priestland's), and he was a slow around the pitch. He also struggled to contain Genia (as did the rest of the Welsh team). Priestland was another who had a very poor day at the office. He must have made at least 5 unforced errors. The pass he knocked on may not have been great, but still one he should have taken. That really could have changed the outcome, because Wales were really on top, and that killed the momentum we had. I also thought the decision to go for posts beforehand was the wrong decision because it let Aus off the hook somewhat when they were really under the cosh. If it was to take the lead, I'd have understood, but it wasn't.
I felt that Scott Williams was playing a little too deep at 12, preventing us from really threatening the advantage line. Beck helped, and what a first touch in international rugby (think it was anyway). He made a few mistakes, but generally offered more threat in attack. I thought Cuthbert and Halfpenny were great, while North was unlucky to go off so early.
The big difference between the two teams was the breakdown. Apart from a 10min spell in the second half, Wales weren't able to disrupt Austrailia at all ruck time, resulting in an almost unlimited supply of quick ball for the dangerous Aus backs. Wales' ball on the other hand was almost constantly disrupted, which resulted in appalling ball for Phillips to deal with. Wales were guilty of not looking after the ball on a few occasions with the ball spilling out, but Aus (especially Pockok) did a great job of disrupting things.
I thought Warburton was waaay off the pace in the first half. One or two turnovers aside I thought he was blown away at the breakdown, and he was very slow getting back into the defensive line in the build-up to Aus' first try. He improved in the second half, but overall looked exactly what he was, lacking gametime. But it wasn't just Warburton, the rest of the forwards were slow and inaccurate at the breakdown. As predicted, we really missed Ian Evans' ferocity around the pitch, Alun Wyn Jones and Ryan Jones made a difference in this regard when they came on.
I thought Faletau had by far his worst game in a Welsh shirt. He was close to anonomous in all aspects of the game. I'd have replaced him for next week regardless of his injury, still a pitty he's out though. Great that Delve is getting a chance mind.
Even Gethin and Adam were poor, which is close to unheard of. The Welsh scrum was on top, but never in the right areas. Aus managed well on their own ball mind.
The backs had to deal with poor ball for the majority of the match, especially Phillips who was forced to clean up ball at ruck time. Still, Phillips was still very poor. His kicking game was rubbish (as was Priestland's), and he was a slow around the pitch. He also struggled to contain Genia (as did the rest of the Welsh team). Priestland was another who had a very poor day at the office. He must have made at least 5 unforced errors. The pass he knocked on may not have been great, but still one he should have taken. That really could have changed the outcome, because Wales were really on top, and that killed the momentum we had. I also thought the decision to go for posts beforehand was the wrong decision because it let Aus off the hook somewhat when they were really under the cosh. If it was to take the lead, I'd have understood, but it wasn't.
I felt that Scott Williams was playing a little too deep at 12, preventing us from really threatening the advantage line. Beck helped, and what a first touch in international rugby (think it was anyway). He made a few mistakes, but generally offered more threat in attack. I thought Cuthbert and Halfpenny were great, while North was unlucky to go off so early.
dasNdanger
First XV
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,750
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Thanks for all the discussion. I recorded the match and just watched it last night - but the commentary was in Afrikaans, or Welsh, or something else that was not English. Also, no scores or times were posted, so I lost track a couple times. Still, I watched, and though I understood most of the names and could follow the game well enough, I really missed the snarky commentary that usually accompanies a rugby match.
das
das
