South Africa vs France

[User1245]

Springbok coach Peter de Villiers has omitted Frans Steyn and Joe van Niekerk from his 27-man squad for the one-off Test against France at Newlands on Saturday.

Also dropped after the Boks' 34-31 win over Wales was prop CJ van der Linde and centre Meyer Bosman.

GALLERY: Wales v Springboks

Wing Odwa Ndungane, who picked up a rib injury while in the process of scoring a try on Saturday, will undergo further scans to assess the damage, but won’t be considered for the game against France.

Andries Bekker, who returned to SA ahead of the Cardiff Test, has been given the weekend off, but may be fit to play against Italy the following week.

Those returning to the squad include Jean de Villiers, Wynand Olivier, Butch James, Morne Steyn, Bryan Habana, Pierre Spies, Schalk Burger, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp and Flip van der Merwe.

Botha, who is still under suspension, won't be available for the France Test.

Bulls lock Van der Merwe is the only uncapped player in the squad.

The squad excludes scrumhalf Fourie du Preez, who is to have shoulder surgery on Tuesday.

"Fourie is very important to us but so is his welfare and the time is right for him to sort this injury out," said coach Peter de Villiers. "We will miss him but it is important that he is available and fit at the world cup next year. We have adequate cover in the scrumhalf position too.â€

On the opposition, De Villiers said: "France are the Six Nations champions and they beat us last year so this is a big match. We know they can be dangerous and this will be a tough, tough Test.â€

Explaining the omission of Steyn, De Villiers said that he was one of several overseas based players who were off the pace in the win over Wales at the Millennium Stadium.

“If you go and watch the game again, and really watch it closely, you will see that most of the overseas based players were off the pace in that game. I have been criticised for not selecting overseas based players, but this match showed me that the guys have to be playing Super 14,†said De Villiers.

“In Frans’ case I met with him (before the Cardiff Test) and we came to an agreement that I would not choose him beyond this game. I believe Frans was the best in the world last year, but he wasn’t the best in the world in Cardiff, and that is a problem. I don’t know what he is going to do to get back there. Playing overseas is not the answer.â€

De Villiers said that critics were bound to question him about Jean de Villiers, who was included in the group on Monday after passing a medical examination on his injured A/C joint, but he said the Bok centre had always played open cards with him from the time he left for Munster last year.

“I always knew that Jean would be back by June 1 this year, he phoned me before he left and told me he knew he was making a big mistake and wanted to come back as soon as possible,†said De Villiers.

The coach included No 8 Van Niekerk in the group that he felt were off the pace because they did not play Super 14 rugby.

However, apart from selecting De Villiers, he has also retained overseas based tighthead BJ Botha and Bath flyhalf Butch James, who was initially selected at centre for the match against Wales but was ruled out due to a contractual dispute. The Bok coach’s reasons for retaining James appeared fair.

“I feel that after offering him the chance to play against Wales it would be unfair to leave him out now because his chances were dashed by the dispute involving his club. As for where I will choose him when I do use him, I am not sure. It could be at flyhalf or it could be at centre.â€

De Villiers said that James earns his place ahead of someone like inform Stormers flyhalf Peter Grant on the grounds that he inspires the players around him. James was the Springbok flyhalf when South Africa won the 2007 Rugby World Cup.

“There are seven other players who just love having Butch around and they feel they play better when he is. This is not an individual sport, it is a team sport, and we must make the selections that help the team cause.â€

De Villiers added that Bekker’s omission was purely injury related and had nothing to do with the personal problems the player is experiencing which were spotlighted in some media at the weekend.

“When Andries’ injury was diagnosed we did not know about the other thing that has happened, we have not discussed that,†said De Villiers.

The match 22 to face France at Newlands on Saturday will be named on Tuesday.

Springbok squad:

Zane Kirchner, Gio Aplon, Bjorn Basson, Jaque Fourie, Jean de Villiers, Wynand Olivier, Juan de Jongh, Butch James, Morne Steyn, Bryan Habana, Ruan Pienaar, Ricky Januarie, Pierre Spies, Ryan Kankowski, Dewald Potgieter, Francois Louw, Schalk Burger, Bakkies Botha, Flip van der Merwe, Danie Rossouw, Victor Matfield, Alistair Hargreaves, BJ Botha, John Smit (captain), Chiliboy Ralepelle, Jannie du Plessis, Gurthro Steenkamp

Source

Good to see Flip van der Merwe being called in to the setup. He probably won't play but will be a motivator for him to keep the good play up. I think dropping Steyn was a good thing. He the best 15 we have but the fact that he signed for 3 years in France should push him down the pecking order significantly. We need to do everything we can to keep our players in SA. The Butch James saga is evidence of the crap that comes with overseas based players.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Should be a cracking match, will be interesting to see how each team plays, as on their day they're both quality sides, but can suffer from poor form. Tri vs Six nations champions, can't wait

If my maths serves me correctly, none of the matches on saturday clash (including the only WC match i'm looking forward to: England/USA) so should be a good day of rugby/football

 

[veux]

I hope James plays, one of my favorite players and his aggression on and off the ball really lifts a team (and makes it more entertaining for me lol)

 

[rugbywriter]

A disgrace of a squad. What the hell are guys like Kirchner, Basson, Hargreaves, Rallepelle and Januarie doing there? Hargreaves is one of the worst locks I've ever seen. Isn't his dad involved in SARU or something? Don't get me wrong about Basson, he is one for the future, but that's just the problem. At the moment there are better players then him. No Francois Hougaard, Gerhard van den Heever, Riaan Viljoen, Sarel Pretorious, Peter Grant or Dewald Duvenhage! Shocking selections, as always!

@ Steve-o: "Good to see Flip van der Merwe being called in to the setup. He probably won't play but will be a motivator for him to keep the good play up. I think dropping Steyn was a good thing. He the best 15 we have but the fact that he signed for 3 years in France should push him down the pecking order significantly. We need to do everything we can to keep our players in SA. The Butch James saga is evidence of the crap that comes with overseas based players. "

The problem is not keeping our players here, the problem is this stupid over-seas players policy. Rugby is now a professional sport. Players in Europe get paid far more then what players here do. The bottom line is, the standard of living in South Africa is much more difficult then most other countries because of our incomeptant government. We shouldn't expect guys who could be making millions to stay here and deal with the crap we have to deal with. If you can get out of it, consider yourself lucky and go. And even in terms of rugby, why do you find it so important that we keep our players here? Let me ask you this. Which trophy is more important, the Currie Cup, the Super 14 or the World Cup? There is only one answer to that. Why then must the team that plays the World Cup -the most important tournament - suffer and not the teams in the less important competitions? It makes no sense! I think I speak on behalf of a lot of people when I say I'd rather see a decline in the Super14 and Currie Cup in order to see the best international team possible! So the problem is not trying to keep players here, the problem is that there shouldn't be this stupid over-seas players policy!

 

[nickdnz]

A disgrace of a squad. What the hell are guys like Kirchner, Basson, Hargreaves, Rallepelle and Januarie doing there? Hargreaves is one of the worst locks I've ever seen. Isn't his dad involved in SARU or something? Don't get me wrong about Basson, he is one for the future, but that's just the problem. At the moment there are better players then him. No Francois Hougaard, Gerhard van den Heever, Riaan Viljoen, Sarel Pretorious, Peter Grant or Dewald Duvenhage! Shocking selections, as always!

@ Steve-o: "Good to see Flip van der Merwe being called in to the setup. He probably won't play but will be a motivator for him to keep the good play up. I think dropping Steyn was a good thing. He the best 15 we have but the fact that he signed for 3 years in France should push him down the pecking order significantly. We need to do everything we can to keep our players in SA. The Butch James saga is evidence of the crap that comes with overseas based players. "

The problem is not keeping our players here, the problem is this stupid over-seas players policy. Rugby is now a professional sport. Players in Europe get paid far more then what players here do. The bottom line is, the standard of living in South Africa is much more difficult then most other countries because of our incomeptant government. We shouldn't expect guys who could be making millions to stay here and deal with the crap we have to deal with. If you can get out of it, consider yourself lucky and go. And even in terms of rugby, why do you find it so important that we keep our players here? Let me ask you this. Which trophy is more important, the Currie Cup, the Super 14 or the World Cup? There is only one answer to that. Why then must the team that plays the World Cup -the most important tournament - suffer and not the teams in the less important competitions? It makes no sense! I think I speak on behalf of a lot of people when I say I'd rather see a decline in the Super14 and Currie Cup in order to see the best international team possible! So the problem is not trying to keep players here, the problem is that there shouldn't be this stupid over-seas players policy!

I'll answer your question for you.

Q:Which trophy is more important, the Currie Cup, the Super 14 or the World Cup?
A:Currie Cup/Super 14(15)

Reason: Any countires without a firm domestic competition, fail. You take the most talented players from the Currie Cup or Super 14, you then lower the quality of the competition, which means other players remaining in those competitions, perform against lower players. Also, pitting SH players in what is arguably a lower quality competition, means players don't develop into the Richie McCaws or Morne Steyn's. They may become the next Moody's or Flood's, but I'm sure that's not quite what you want.

Not only does players moving over seas, effect the quality of the domestic competition, but it also effects the number of sales. If the top SA players move to play in Europe, would you watch the second teir players the same amount? That money can be recycled back into getting new great players.

Finally, should someone be punished not for taking up a lucritive contract from overseas? That's what would happen to any top player who decides to stay home and play rugby. They won't earn the same amount of money, however their loyalty will be unrewarded as players earning 10x what they earn, are getting the same reward (a spot in the Springboks). Yes the RWC is the most prestegious competition in the world, however while taking players from over seas seems like a good quick bulster in the ranks for SA, it will ultimately lead to SA suffering in the long run.

 

[rugbywriter]

I'll answer your question for you.

Q:Which trophy is more important, the Currie Cup, the Super 14 or the World Cup?
A:Currie Cup/Super 14(15)

Reason: Any countires without a firm domestic competition, fail. You take the most talented players from the Currie Cup or Super 14, you then lower the quality of the competition, which means other players remaining in those competitions, perform against lower players. Also, pitting SH players in what is arguably a lower quality competition, means players don't develop into the Richie McCaws or Morne Steyn's. They may become the next Moody's or Flood's, but I'm sure that's not quite what you want.

Not only does players moving over seas, effect the quality of the domestic competition, but it also effects the number of sales. If the top SA players move to play in Europe, would you watch the second teir players the same amount? That money can be recycled back into getting new great players.

Finally, should someone be punished not for taking up a lucritive contract from overseas? That's what would happen to any top player who decides to stay home and play rugby. They won't earn the same amount of money, however their loyalty will be unrewarded as players earning 10x what they earn, are getting the same reward (a spot in the Springboks). Yes the RWC is the most prestegious competition in the world, however while taking players from over seas seems like a good quick bulster in the ranks for SA, it will ultimately lead to SA suffering in the long run.

That is a giant load of crap. Rugby is now a professional sport. You have to keep up with the times. The bottom line is, Springbok, New Zealand and Australian rugby have suffered because of this over-seas players policy. New Zealand have been without Hayman, Mauger, Kelleher etc. South Africa have lost countless players aswell. There is no way that none of the teams will suffer, it will have to be domestic or international. I would rather see the Springboks win the world cup then see an entertaining Super14, so that's why I feel that the over-seas policy needs to go. Our players should be allowed to play where ever they will earn more money for themselves and their families and not be punished. If you want to be incredibly naive and go with that wholee "representing your country should be enough" then I guess I don't even need to argue with you.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How much does the average rugby player earn, in Aus/SA/NZ, compared to the average wage? I'm willing to bet it's a chunk more, yes?
So they get the choice, earn more than the average person and play for their country, or forfeit playing for their country and go elsewhere for more money.

 

[rugbywriter]

How much does the average rugby player earn, in Aus/SA/NZ, compared to the average wage? I'm willing to bet it's a chunk more, yes?
So they get the choice, earn more than the average person and play for their country, or forfeit playing for their country and go elsewhere for more money.

They should be able to go elsewhere and get more money and play for their country

 

[Jer1cho]

South Africa:

15. Zane Kirchner, 14. Gio Aplon, 13. Jaque Fourie, 12. Wynand Olivier, 11. Bryan Habana, 10. Morné Steyn, 9. Ricky Januarie, 8. Pierre Spies, 7. Francois Louw, 6. Schalk Burger, 5. Victor Matfield, 4. Danie Rossouw, 3. BJ Botha, 2. John Smit (captain), 1. Gurthrö Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16. Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Jannie du Plessis, 18. Flip van der Merwe, 19. Dewald Potgieter, 20. Ruan Pienaar, 21. Juan de Jongh, 22. Jean de Villiers

I'm still wondering why Kirchner is there. Seriously. He comes on against Wales and immediately gives them a try. Then does nothing for the rest of the match. He is so kak. I wanted Aplon at 15, and van den Heever at 14. Why is Gerhard van den Heever not even in the squad? Hopefully he will get a call up for the Tri Nations.

Also, WTF Ricky Januarie starting ahead of Pienaar at 9? Ok Ricky had an ok-ish game against Wales, but France are a different kettle of fish. Januarie takes too long to get the ball out of the rucks when we need momentum. He stands there waving his hands at everyone.

Other than that, i am excited. Great forward pack. Definitely the best we could pick if you ask me. Danie Rossouw has really hit form this year. It seems he is like a good wine, maturing with age.

So, at home, i don't see France beating us with this squad. Unless of course they keep kicking to Kirchner, in which case we are screwed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Solid team, and a strong bench as well.
I agree, can't see France beating that side. Will be interesting to see what the France side will be, with Basta out and being replaced by an uncapped player. I imagine a game similar to the Wales game: Close but SA playing better

 

[rugbywriter]

South Africa:

15. Zane Kirchner, 14. Gio Aplon, 13. Jaque Fourie, 12. Wynand Olivier, 11. Bryan Habana, 10. Morné Steyn, 9. Ricky Januarie, 8. Pierre Spies, 7. Francois Louw, 6. Schalk Burger, 5. Victor Matfield, 4. Danie Rossouw, 3. BJ Botha, 2. John Smit (captain), 1. Gurthrö Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16. Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Jannie du Plessis, 18. Flip van der Merwe, 19. Dewald Potgieter, 20. Ruan Pienaar, 21. Juan de Jongh, 22. Jean de Villiers

I'm still wondering why Kirchner is there. Seriously. He comes on against Wales and immediately gives them a try. Then does nothing for the rest of the match. He is so kak. I wanted Aplon at 15, and van den Heever at 14. Why is Gerhard van den Heever not even in the squad? Hopefully he will get a call up for the Tri Nations.

Also, WTF Ricky Januarie starting ahead of Pienaar at 9? Ok Ricky had an ok-ish game against Wales, but France are a different kettle of fish. Januarie takes too long to get the ball out of the rucks when we need momentum. He stands there waving his hands at everyone.

Other than that, i am excited. Great forward pack. Definitely the best we could pick if you ask me. Danie Rossouw has really hit form this year. It seems he is like a good wine, maturing with age.

So, at home, i don't see France beating us with this squad. Unless of course they keep kicking to Kirchner, in which case we are screwed.

Had to check that I didn't write that! Agree with you 100%!!! Kirchner is so very average, if he was playing for any team other then the Bulls he would not even be looked at twice. As for Januarie starting over Pienaar, I agree that Januarie is not exactly du Preez, but who else? I know Duvenhage, Vermaak and Sarel Pretorious are all better then both Januarie and Pienaar, but you guys should really make peace with the fact that De Villiers is a complete idiot when it comes to selection. I didn't expect Duvenhage, Vermaak or Sarel to make it, even though they very much deserve it. I also expected Kirchner to make it, even though he most deffinitely doesn't deserve it. I also didn't expect Gerhard van den Heever or Francois Hougaard - our top wings of the season - to make it. The Boks will never again have a regular white wing. They know that they have to put X ammount of blacks/colourds in the team, and they know that black guys excel on the wing. So wing will always be used to include some quota players, not that Gio Aplon is a quota player. He is very good, but van den Heever and Francois Hougaard I feel are a lot less mistake-prone, which is what the boks need.

My 22 for this game would have been (With injuries)
1. CJ van der Linde
2. Gary Botha
3. BJ Botha
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Victor Matfield
6. Schalk Burger
7. Francois Louw
8. Pierre Spies
9. Sarel Pretorious
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaques Fourie
14. Gerhard van den Heever
15. Frans Steyn
16. Schalk Brits
17. John Smit
18. Flip van der Merwe
19. Dewaldt Potgieter
20. Dewald Duvenhage
21. Butch James
22. Wynand Olivier

 

[Jer1cho]

France:

15. Clement Poitrenaud (Toulouse), 14. Vincent Clerc (Toulouse), 13. David Marty (Perpignan), 12. Maxime Mermoz (Perpignan), 11. Aurelien Rougerie (Clermont), 10. Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), 9. Morgan Parra (Clermont), 8. Julien Bonnaire (Clermont), 7. Wenceslas Lauret (Biarritz), 6. Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, captain), 5. Romain Millo-Chluski (Toulouse), 4. Lionel Nallet (Racing-Metro), 3. Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), 2. Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Francais), 1. Thomas Domingo (Clermont)

Substitutes: 16. Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), 17. Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse), 18. Julien Pierre (Clermont), 19. Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), 20. Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz), 21. David Skrela (Toulouse), 22. Marc Andreu (Castres)

Doesnt look too shabby. They are gonna miss Harinordiquay though... Surprised Picamoles is not starting. He tore us apart last year. He is quite a beast.

 

[rugbywriter]

France:

15. Clement Poitrenaud (Toulouse), 14. Vincent Clerc (Toulouse), 13. David Marty (Perpignan), 12. Maxime Mermoz (Perpignan), 11. Aurelien Rougerie (Clermont), 10. Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), 9. Morgan Parra (Clermont), 8. Julien Bonnaire (Clermont), 7. Wenceslas Lauret (Biarritz), 6. Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, captain), 5. Romain Millo-Chluski (Toulouse), 4. Lionel Nallet (Racing-Metro), 3. Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), 2. Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Francais), 1. Thomas Domingo (Clermont)

Substitutes: 16. Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), 17. Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse), 18. Julien Pierre (Clermont), 19. Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), 20. Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz), 21. David Skrela (Toulouse), 22. Marc Andreu (Castres)

Doesnt look too shabby. They are gonna miss Harinordiquay though... Surprised Picamoles is not starting. He tore us apart last year. He is quite a beast.

A kick-ass French team. That's gonna be a big scrum and to be honest, Gurthro and Smit are gonna catch a big smack. A lot of pressure on BJ to scrum his heart out. Is Pascal Pape injured? I think that guy is so good in line-outs. Lionel Nallet though looks like he's fast becoming one of the top locks on the planet. Not crazy about that loose trio. Unfortunate about Harinordoquy, and to be honest I don't think Dusatouir would make the Bok team, but he's okay. Bonnaire is a decent jumper but that's about where it ends. Parra and Trinh-Duc have become on of the most dangerous halfback combos in rugby. Januarie is going to get schooled. One of the weaker French backlines I've ever seen, but when Poitrenaud and Kirchner do kicking battles, Kirchner is going to get his ass kicked.

Have to be honest, I think the French might just come away with this one.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Certainly is a strong side, looking forward to this match a lot
After my inevitable depression after the Australia/England match, a good game of rugby will be needed to cheer me up

 

[Iron Mike]

Picamoles is the toughest player I have ever seen, heaps of players were trying to tackle him in that Boks vs France game, he just kept bouncing them off, he is quite average sized for a forward aswell.

Bonnaire is an extremely talented player, Harinordiquay will be missed, but France have excellent depth in the loose forwards.

 

[Jer1cho]

A kick-ass French team. That's gonna be a big scrum and to be honest, Gurthro and Smit are gonna catch a big smack. A lot of pressure on BJ to scrum his heart out. Is Pascal Pape injured? I think that guy is so good in line-outs. Lionel Nallet though looks like he's fast becoming one of the top locks on the planet. Not crazy about that loose trio. Unfortunate about Harinordoquy, and to be honest I don't think Dusatouir would make the Bok team, but he's okay. Bonnaire is a decent jumper but that's about where it ends. Parra and Trinh-Duc have become on of the most dangerous halfback combos in rugby. Januarie is going to get schooled. One of the weaker French backlines I've ever seen, but when Poitrenaud and Kirchner do kicking battles, Kirchner is going to get his ass kicked.

Have to be honest, I think the French might just come away with this one.

I'm really impressed by your knowledge regarding foreign teams dude. Thumbs up!

 

[Feicarsinn]

That French front row is monster, it could be a very long day at the office for the South African scrum. In fact, the entire French pack is pretty mighty, the battle up front is going to be very tasty. Experianced backline although I would have liked to see Marc Andreu start. If the game decends into a kicking contest South Africa will come out on top, Poitrenaud must be the least reliable fullback in international rugby at the moment.

 

[Charles]

Good post Jericho. I have to say I am not overly impressed by this SA team. The absence of FDP will be massive in the outcome of this game. On the french side big game players are missing as well, almost all the leaders of the Grand Slam: Servat, Harinordoquy, Chabal, Jauzion, and also Bastareaud and David who are always useful to bash it up the middle. I'm worried we'll miss penetration without those guys. I expect us to dominate in the scrums though and our bench is slightly better I feel.

Edit: I've just seen the starting XV. Lauret starting, Lievremont is opting for a running/defensive backrow rather than taking the Boks upfront. Makes sense with the centre pairing which is much more mobile and quick than Jauzion-Basta/David.
Picamoles as the enforcer for the last 30...

 

[rugbywriter]

That French front row is monster, it could be a very long day at the office for the South African scrum. In fact, the entire French pack is pretty mighty, the battle up front is going to be very tasty. Experianced backline although I would have liked to see Marc Andreu start. If the game decends into a kicking contest South Africa will come out on top, Poitrenaud must be the least reliable fullback in international rugby at the moment.

Huh? Dude he's like one of the best, what are you on about?

 

[Iron Mike]

I would have liked to see, 6. Dusautoir 7. Bonnaire 8. Picamoles, but ahwell.