Sonny Bill Williams News + Progress in ITM Cup

[Feicarsinn]

you don't think he has the potential to be very by 3N next year?

He wan't great in France and he hasn't done anything in New Zealand yet. I'm not saying he'll never be good enough for the AB's but you have to prove you're good enough for the All Blacks, not be proven to be not good enough for them.

EDIT: I misread your post a bit.

 

[nickdnz]

you don't think he has the potential to be very by 3N next year?

No, not if the selectors pick on skill, rather than reputation.

Apart from Nonu, I can't see him playing better than McAlister, and that's the only back up 2nd 5/8th we'll need.

Of course it's too early to make any big decisions, considering he only had 60 minutes and a few touches of the ball, but for a large guy, he seemed to avoid contact as much as possible.

 

[Charles]

No, not if the selectors pick on skill, rather than reputation.

Apart from Nonu, I can't see him playing better than McAlister, and that's the only back up 2nd 5/8th we'll need.

Of course it's too early to make any big decisions, considering he only had 60 minutes and a few touches of the ball, but for a large guy, he seemed to avoid contact as much as possible.

Mmm, what's wrong with that? Even a forward should go for the gap, not for the man. Easier to keep the ball moving and going forward.

 

[TyphoonsRugby]

Yeah thats smart rugby, he knows he's big so he can get thru a gap and break any attempted tackles instead of doing a Nonu and trying to run over people.

 

[Iron Mike]

Yeah thats smart rugby, he knows he's big so he can get thru a gap and break any attempted tackles instead of doing a Nonu and trying to run over people.

Instead of doing a Nonu? Why instead? Who set up the match winner against the Boks doing a ''Nonu''? Nonu is fantastic.

If this game said anything about the future prospect of an All Black centre, then it should be Robbie Fruean, seven tries this season? I think?

 

[TyphoonsRugby]

Thru isnt always the best way past someone.....yes Robbie Fruean should be a future All Black, but hes playing 13 whereas SBW prefers 12 and he looks like he'll become a quality player especially with DC inside him.

 

[Shaggy]

Yep, great to see SBW finally get some game time, and pleased that he was at least solid - can't see him breaking up the number one combination of Nonu and Smith in the ABs, but he could give luke McCalister a good run for his money for the second inside centre birth, and depending on his ability to cover other positions, could be a good prospect as an impact player off the bench.

As for Fruen, i'm a fan, but the outside Centre position is more hotly contested, with Kahui back from injury, and also Ranger in the mix.

Should be an interesting end of year tour squad

 

[Sam Owen]

Yeah I'd have to agree with last nights commentators that he played well. Some good touches there a lot of passing like most 2nd fives, if you watch his first 3 touches you will see Canterbury goes forward from them not entirely SBW's doing but he was at the root of it all. Managed to get an intercept pass when his team was defending not far from their line and then saved a sure try for his team. I think he needs to lay of the weights a bit as I think it may restrict some of his movements and work on his kicking game or not kick at all.

Ive been watching all of Luke McAllistair's games and hes a fine player and Im thinkin he'll get the call up to the EOYT with the All Blacks. However his form in the ITM is quiet real quiet, those who have been watching North Harbour know this. He kicked a 63m penalty and then the next game had (or the game after) had 1 good dash, I like Luke but the old one, this one is just being picked on reputation and not any good form. At the same time I have to admit not many 2nd fives in the ITM are really firing either.

Robbie Fruean has played well all throughout the ITM so far. Even off the bench he continues his rampage but where did this new SBW/Fruean comparison come from?..I think if anything the comparisons should be Robbie Fruean vs Luke McAllistair. After all Luke is the one the media feels will go on the EOYT and thats fair enough because of his ability to play 1st five. Robbie's rival at the moment is not a rookie Sonny-Bill its a quiet veteran almost in McAllistair. Who knows maybe both McAllistair and Fruean get named.

 

[TyphoonsRugby]

Fruean shouldnt be being compared to ANY 2nd5, hes a center and his competition to get into the All Blacks is a big group lead by Conrad Smith with Toeava, Ranger and Kahui all in front of him. SBW really only has McAllister and Nonu to worry about.

 

[nickdnz]

The comparison is not there, simply because if Fruean is not picked at centre, but SBW is at 2nd 5/8th, then it seems like SBW is going to be picked on reputation. SBW did nothing to suggest he'll be more of an asset than McAlister. It's called confirmation bias, the commentators and fans look at every little thing SBW does, and everything he does half well, people claim he did brilliantly, however every mistake he makes, is dismissed because he is new. The commentators went on about his little off load, "he was only a foot off the ground" etc, and therefore people think he's great. They ignore the fact the offload went forward, and it caused a scrum. If any player in the whole of the ITM cup was given the same treatment in the ITM cup, by commentators pointing out every good thing they do, it'll make them look much better than they really are.

It pains me to say this, but they do the same thing with Tana Umaga. He's shown some real class, but a lot of it is over emphasized, and all mistakes are pretty much ignored.

 

[Sam Owen]

Yeah I did watch Sonnys game closely and I thought the same as the commentators thats all. I wouldnt say he played 'very' well but he went well. He did make some mistakes i.e..forward pass, dud kick and a pass not reaching its mark but (I think that was it) apart from the forward pass none of them were major. However as I mentioned before he got the ball back for his team when they were vunerable with a well read intercept and saved a try just to name a few things. All and all its easy for anyone to say he went well.

I agree with you nick on this comparison of Fruean and Williams, I dont know where that came from. Theres nothing to suggest that SBW is even gonna make the ABs but the media did interview McAllistair as a likelihood for the EOYT. Ive covered this before on my earlier post anyway lol.

 

[T-Rex]

I've been waiting almost 2 months to see him play and I have to admit, I thought he was pretty impressive. He was strong with his carries and he threw quite a few good long passes, the one that led to the try for Todd is an example of that. He still seems to carry the ball a bit loosely at times. He didn't kick the ball, but if Nonu is an All Black second five precedent then I don't see why he should have to be overly strong in that department.

I know it sounds premature but, if he can continue on with this sort of form then I think he has a good shot at an end of year tour spot as there is no real stand out back up to Nonu in that position and I think from a World Cup point of view, the tour should be the last experimental squad before the World Cup, that's not to suggest the WC squad should be experimental, just that come the 2011 Tri-Nations, and even now, the coaching staff of the All Blacks should have a good outline of their World Cup squad.

On another note, I don't know where people are getting the idea that Robbie Freuan's competition for an All Black place is Luke McAllister. McAllister is a second-five eighth, whereas Fruean is an out and out centre. He has been terrific thus far and was impressive for Wellington last season and even more so with the Crusaders at the beginning of the year. With the unreliability of Kahui on the injury front I think Freuan has a future at All Black level, although I'm a bit skeptical over the workability of him and Nonu in midfield as they are both somewhat similar.

 

[woodward]

The comparison is not there, simply because if Fruean is not picked at centre, but SBW is at 2nd 5/8th, then it seems like SBW is going to be picked on reputation. SBW did nothing to suggest he'll be more of an asset than McAlister. It's called confirmation bias, the commentators and fans look at every little thing SBW does, and everything he does half well, people claim he did brilliantly, however every mistake he makes, is dismissed because he is new. The commentators went on about his little off load, "he was only a foot off the ground" etc, and therefore people think he's great. They ignore the fact the offload went forward, and it caused a scrum. If any player in the whole of the ITM cup was given the same treatment in the ITM cup, by commentators pointing out every good thing they do, it'll make them look much better than they really are.

It pains me to say this, but they do the same thing with Tana Umaga. He's shown some real class, but a lot of it is over emphasized, and all mistakes are pretty much ignored.

Well theres bias on both sides like how some people will say he doesn't deserve do be an All Black because he hasn't done anything. He clearly has potential to do things probably no other player in the world could do.

 

[nickdnz]

I've been waiting almost 2 months to see him play and I have to admit, I thought he was pretty impressive. He was strong with his carries and he threw quite a few ood long passes, the one that led to the try for Todd is an example of that. He still seems to carry the ball a bit loosely at times. He didn't kick the ball, but if Nonu is an All Black second five precedent then I don't see why he should have to be overly strong in that department.

I know it sounds premature but, if he can continue on with this sort of form then I think he has a good shot at an end of year tour spot as there is no real stand out back up to Nonu in that position and I think from a World Cup point of view, the tour should be the last experimental squad before the World Cup, that's not to suggest the WC squad should be experimental, just that come the 2011 Tri-Nations, and even now, the coaching staff of the All Blacks should have a good outline of their World Cup squad.

On another note, I don't know where people are getting the idea that Robbie Freuan's competition for an All Black place is Luke McAllister. McAllister is a second-five eighth, whereas Fruean is an out and out centre. He has been terrific thus far and was impressive for Wellington last season and even more so with the Crusaders at the beginning of the year. With the unreliability of Kahui on the injury front I think Freuan has a future at All Black level, although I'm a bit skeptical over the workability of him and Nonu in midfield as they are both somewhat similar.

Were people watching the same game as me?! What form?! He touched the ball maybe 5 times all game, and 3 of the times small mistakes were made!

I'm not trying to say he's crap, but he's done nothing yet to earn any form of admiration in NZ rugby (not all his fault, as the game was a tedious kick fest). I'm not picking apart his form, it's just I think some New Zealander's are absoloute twits, who'll rave about a players who's done nothing note worthy in NZ or for that matter rugby union, and every time they manage to catch a ball, and pass it, they're potentially an All Black great in the making. I wish some kiwi's would open their eyes and try and reveiw a player with a cold eye, rather than jump on the hype bandwagon.

Who compared Fruean to McAlister?

By the way, how bad was Stephen Brett this game?!

 

[Iron Mike]

Nonu used to play outside centre because his brother played inside, then moved to wing because of Umaga / Smith, then into inside. It is possible for Fruean to play at inside as he plays like Nonu.

What a centre pairing though huh? Williams is what? 105kg? Fruean about the same? **** that, just kick it over.

You guys should remember that cliched saying though ''I'm a rugby player first, a position second.''

Paul O'Connell used to play flyhalf at school, what the? Toeava is an outside back, yet he was talked about playing twelve for the All Blacks, before his injury.

 

[T-Rex]

Were people watching the same game as me?! What form?! He touched the ball maybe 5 times all game, and 3 of the times small mistakes were made!

I'm not trying to say he's crap, but he's done nothing yet to earn any form of admiration in NZ rugby (not all his fault, as the game was a tedious kick fest). I'm not picking apart his form, it's just I think some New Zealander's are absoloute twits, who'll rave about a players who's done nothing note worthy in NZ or for that matter rugby union, and every time they manage to catch a ball, and pass it, they're potentially an All Black great in the making. I wish some kiwi's would open their eyes and try and reveiw a player with a cold eye, rather than jump on the hype bandwagon.

Who compared Fruean to McAlister?

By the way, how bad was Stephen Brett this game?!

Actually, I'm a Dogs fan, so I have a reason to view Sonny Bill in a negative light and expected a lot worse from his performance than what I got, so you shouldn't make assumptions on my viewpoint.

I felt he had a good game and looked promising carrying the ball and passing it, which I thought he might struggle with. You are going way over the top with your analysis of what is being said about him, he shouldn't have had to have earned critical acclaim within New Zealand rugby prior to this to have his performance commented on positively.

Also, you haven't taken note that I noted the premature nature of my comments in regards to the All Blacks squad, also not taking into account what I said about how the structure of the squad should work. I thought he had a good performance considering the circumstances and I stand by that. Saying he was pretty impressive doesn't mean I'm going wild over him. Maybe you are viewing it too coldly?

Also, on the Freuan/McAlister comparison, this is what was said above;

I think if anything the comparisons should be Robbie Fruean vs Luke McAllistair. After all Luke is the one the media feels will go on the EOYT and thats fair enough because of his ability to play 1st five. Robbie's rival at the moment is not a rookie Sonny-Bill its a quiet veteran almost in McAllistair. Who knows maybe both McAllistair and Fruean get named.

So that's where that comparison came from.

 

[durbutter]

he shouldn't have had to have earned critical acclaim within New Zealand rugby prior to this to have his performance commented on positivel

Also, you haven't taken note that I noted the premature nature of my comments in regards to the All Blacks squad, also not taking into account what I said about how the structure of the squad should work. I thought he had a good performance considering the circumstances and I stand by that. Saying he was pretty impressive doesn't mean I'm going wild over him. Maybe you are viewing it too coldly?

Also, on the Freuan/McAlister comparison, this is what was said above;



So that's where that comparison came from.

I think what's irritating most people is that people are raving and saying he played well when he actually was competent.At this rate he'll be called the best 112 in the world when he runs in his first try.

what i'm trying to say is, he's the one who has to silence the skeptics with some outstanding rugby. He didn't do it in France, we'll have to wait and see as regards NZ

 

[Hurricane Nate]

To me SBW looked a bit lost on the rugby field. Needs to calm down on the offloads and suss out what exactly he is meant to be doing on defence. The more gametime the better.

 

[smartcooky]

I've been waiting almost 2 months to see him play and I have to admit, I thought he was pretty impressive. He was strong with his carries and he threw quite a few good long passes, the one that led to the try for Todd is an example of that

Yes. That pass was a fast, flat pass. That is the type of pass which players often "float" but he threw it hard and flat

On another note, I don't know where people are getting the idea that Robbie Freuan's competition for an All Black place is Luke McAllister. McAllister is a second-five eighth, whereas Fruean is an out and out centre. He has been terrific thus far and was impressive for Wellington last season and even more so with the Crusaders at the beginning of the year.

TBH I think that is something we hear more from some NH posters, because they tend to see the 12 & 13 positions as interchangeable, so much so, that they actually call them both "centres". In the NH they call them inside & outside centres, but some teams play a left & right centres game. where the 12 is on the left and 13 on the right, so when the ball is being passed to the left, the 12 ends up outside the 13.

 

[Charles]

Yes. That pass was a fast, flat pass. That is the type of pass which players often "float" but he threw it hard and flat

TBH I think that is something we hear more from some NH posters, because they tend to see the 12 & 13 positions as interchangeable, so much so, that they actually call them both "centres". In the NH they call them inside & outside centres, but some teams play a left & right centres game. where the 12 is on the left and 13 on the right, so when the ball is being passed to the left, the 12 ends up outside the 13.

Yeah, used to be like that in France back in the day. The first specialised 13 was probably Philippe Sella. Tbh I feel if you're a good rugby player you can play 12 or 13 regardless. If you can't , there something wrong (except speed, which can be an issue at 13).