Sonny Bill Williams News + Progress in ITM Cup

[Iron Mike]

It is harder to move from 12 into 13 than 13 to 12. With 13, you should have the speed anyway, plus the defence. In Fruean's case, he already has those qualities plus the strength, so I could see him as a potential All Black 12.

Also all this bullshit about competition and Fruean is a 13 not a 12 is a bit boring. Loose forwards jump in the lineout, some loosies can play locks, some locks play loosies, hell John Afoa wants to play hooker. It would be different if moving from hooker to flyhalf, but inside centre / outside centre, second five eight / centre CAN BE pretty much the same.

You think Graham Henry cares that Sean Maitland has been playing fullback for Canterbury? He would pick him and play him at wing (if he did pick him). Or Jane? Oh sorry, you're not wanted as you are a fullback and we want a WING. The best players play, you can easily mould someone into a new position than bringing in someone who plays a position who is absolutely crap (Benson Stanley anyone?)

 

[Sam Owen]

Yeah man your right Mike about all this positional stuff. All the others have some interesting take on Sonnys performance, all I know is I cant wait for his next game. I normally like watching the Canterbury side but with SBW there its even more compelling.

 

[woodward]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/sbw-has-a-lot-to-learn--and-offer-20100904-14v87.html
also
http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/sonnys-the-money-20100905-14vn1.html
"Benson Stanley should be nervous" cracks me up when overseas journalists comment on New Zealand rugby based only on the AB's squad

 

[nickdnz]

Actually, I'm a Dogs fan, so I have a reason to view Sonny Bill in a negative light and expected a lot worse from his performance than what I got, so you shouldn't make assumptions on my viewpoint.

I felt he had a good game and looked promising carrying the ball and passing it, which I thought he might struggle with. You are going way over the top with your analysis of what is being said about him, he shouldn't have had to have earned critical acclaim within New Zealand rugby prior to this to have his performance commented on positively.

Also, you haven't taken note that I noted the premature nature of my comments in regards to the All Blacks squad, also not taking into account what I said about how the structure of the squad should work. I thought he had a good performance considering the circumstances and I stand by that. Saying he was pretty impressive doesn't mean I'm going wild over him. Maybe you are viewing it too coldly?

Also, on the Freuan/McAlister comparison, this is what was said above;



So that's where that comparison came from.

Hmm, to be honest I was only commenting on the highlighted bits of your post, when my paragraph ended. Don't worry, a lot of new posters think it's all about them
I think you also don't know what viewing at something with a cold eye is. It has nothing to do with a negative attitude, it has to do with reviewing something with no emotional connection, so to have total objectivity. I'm too objective?

 

[T-Rex]

Hmm, to be honest I was only commenting on the highlighted bits of your post, when my paragraph ended. Don't worry, a lot of new posters think it's all about them
I think you also don't know what viewing at something with a cold eye is. It has nothing to do with a negative attitude, it has to do with reviewing something with no emotional connection, so to have total objectivity. I'm too objective?

Yeah, I know what it means. It's just that by the way you've said things it seems you are judging him at the opposite end of where you think others are with their praises of his performance. Like I said, I have no reason to want him to perform well or poorly either way.

 

[Iron Mike]

Yeah, I know what it means. It's just that by the way you've said things it seems you are judging him at the opposite end of where you think others are with their praises of his performance. Like I said, I have no reason to want him to perform well or poorly either way.

I want him to perform badly because I think he is a dick.

He played alright, he will definitely do well at Super 14 level based on that performance (I think?), his ''line breaking'' skills were pretty good and his off loads. Get a proper All Black player running off of those and with decent coaching and you have yourself a pretty good player. But then again, this is the ITM cup, the ITM cup is pretty slack on defence and makes players look amazing on attack but when they reach the Super 14 / international level it becomes a lot harder. Zac Guildford scored 11 tries last season didn't he (15 games)? Scored 6 tries in 14 Super 14 games and four All Blacks caps without a try? I'm not saying Guildford is a bad player, but often people seem like rugby gods in the ITM cup because it isn't that far off of amateur, hell I remember when a lot of people didn't even get payed unless you were drafted with a Super franchise.

 

[T-Rex]

There are a lot of problems with the ITM cup at the moment. It probably even warrants its own thread. Thankfully, the NZRU are re-working the competition for next season and I hope they get it right this time.

 

[Dizzy]

The comparison is not there, simply because if Fruean is not picked at centre, but SBW is at 2nd 5/8th, then it seems like SBW is going to be picked on reputation. SBW did nothing to suggest he'll be more of an asset than McAlister. It's called confirmation bias, the commentators and fans look at every little thing SBW does, and everything he does half well, people claim he did brilliantly, however every mistake he makes, is dismissed because he is new. The commentators went on about his little off load, "he was only a foot off the ground" etc, and therefore people think he's great. They ignore the fact the offload went forward, and it caused a scrum. If any player in the whole of the ITM cup was given the same treatment in the ITM cup, by commentators pointing out every good thing they do, it'll make them look much better than they really are.

It pains me to say this, but they do the same thing with Tana Umaga. He's shown some real class, but a lot of it is over emphasized, and all mistakes are pretty much ignored.

Hey man,
Leave the King out of this, this is about money bill

 

[jawmalawm24]

Holy crap I didn't realise there was gonna be this many replies 5 pages later lol. Anyway I think Sonny Bill played pretty solid for his first Super Rugby game and with everyone concentrating on him it opened up things for Robert Fruean who's having a massive year.

I have to agree with nickdnz the commentators do tend to point out the good things certain players do and just dismiss the bad or blame it on something else. Carter played like crap the other week but people are like oh he had a bad ankle when in fact he just played like the poos.

Anyway back to Sonny Bill I don't even watch League and I've never even seen a full game with him playing in it I've only ever seen highlights and the odd Bulldogs game here and there when he was playing but from what I saw in the weekend if that's how he plays in his first Super Rugby game I can't wait to see what else he's got.

 

[Larksea]

that one kick he tried was a shocker hehe

But it has to be said, his passing game was top shelf. Both his offloads and his wide passes were fast, accurate and just right on the money. Defence was good too.

very good effort, potential is there for sure. He did open up some gaps for Fruen too, last week I would not have said Sonny & Fruen would make a good combination but after seeing sonny's passing game. I think they will make a great combination - no wonder Crotty didn't want to go off. He didn't want to give Sonny a foot in the door.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Good to read that he finally made his appearance.

 

[Sam Owen]

Hmmm...been waiting for Feicarsinn's response as he is the negative/hater type. Must of read most of the posts here and knew he didnt have a case lol.

Still I would be interested in his opinions with all respect.

 

[nickdnz]

Hmmm...been waiting for Feicarsinn's response as he is the negative/hater type. Must of read most of the posts here and knew he didnt have a case lol.

Still I would be interested in his opinions with all respect.

Hasn't got a case for what? He was dead on. SBW didn't have a memorable game. People talk about his passing being top shelf? Was it? His offload was forward and his first pass was a wild bounce that we recovered. He did nothing to change my opinion from that game, and I can'tt see why Feircarsinn would think he was wrong. He's not a bad player, he's just certainly not worth what he's being paid and he doesn't deserve his reputation, and being one of the few kiwi's who's been streaming games from the Top 14, I think I'm one of the few who even knows what he plays like in rugby union. Most people just watch highlight reals, which are misleading to say the least. At least most NH posters have watched him play and most don't share kiwi's extreme optomism about SBW (except Cymro).

 

[markshaw]

hes the real deal stop hating

 

[Iron Mike]

most don't share kiwi's extreme optomism about SBW (except Cymro).

Yeah but, doesn't Cymro like Gavin Henson? Which voids any opinion

 

[Sam Owen]

Hasn't got a case for what? He was dead on. SBW didn't have a memorable game. People talk about his passing being top shelf? Was it? His offload was forward and his first pass was a wild bounce that we recovered. He did nothing to change my opinion from that game, and I can'tt see why Feircarsinn would think he was wrong. He's not a bad player, he's just certainly not worth what he's being paid and he doesn't deserve his reputation, and being one of the few kiwi's who's been streaming games from the Top 14, I think I'm one of the few who even knows what he plays like in rugby union. Most people just watch highlight reals, which are misleading to say the least. At least most NH posters have watched him play and most don't share kiwi's extreme optomism about SBW (except Cymro).

Ohh nick chill out, calm down mate. A lot of us here watched his game and he did well, read the majority of the posts. Look Sinn always has something negative to say, he's the type to tell someone you CANT make it, a hater, I thought you nick were trying to be positive??..Im the total opposite I'd give you the chance to prove yourself no matter what others say, an optimist, the type you want your son to learn boxing from, the type to take your views into consideration.
Look nick at my previous posts Ive pointed out and acknowledged the things SBW did wrong but I also pointed out the good things. Youve never mentioned any of the good things he done that WERNT on any highlights and then you accuse us of watching highlights. Cmon nick man please I ask of no forum war just the respect Ive given you, this is between me and Sinn hes disrespected me despite the respect Ive given him, he had a lot of negative things to say about a SBW. As soon as SBW did something bad he'd be the first to comment but now that this thread shows clearly that SBW did well he aint QUICK (like he was before) to say anything.

Instead of putting something usually negative here. Hes tryin to take the gloss of the Black Ferns hard fought world cup final. Wait a minute why am I defending the kiwis, arent you kiwi nickdNZ?

 

[nickdnz]

Ohh nick chill out, calm down mate. A lot of us here watched his game and he did well, read the majority of the posts. Look Sinn always has something negative to say, he's the type to tell someone you CANT make it, a hater, I thought you nick were trying to be positive??..Im the total opposite I'd give you the chance to prove yourself no matter what others say, an optimist, the type you want your son to learn boxing from, the type to take your views into consideration.
Look nick at my previous posts Ive pointed out and acknowledged the things SBW did wrong but I also pointed out the good things. Youve never mentioned any of the good things he done that WERNT on any highlights and then you accuse us of watching highlights. Cmon nick man please I ask of no forum war just the respect Ive given you, this is between me and Sinn hes disrespected me despite the respect Ive given him, he had a lot of negative things to say about a SBW. As soon as SBW did something bad he'd be the first to comment but now that this thread shows clearly that SBW did well he aint QUICK (like he was before) to say anything.

Instead of putting something usually negative here. Hes tryin to take the gloss of the Black Ferns hard fought world cup final. Wait a minute why am I defending the kiwis, arent you kiwi nickdNZ?

Mate, I can't stress this enough. It's not personal, and I'm not really at all fired up or angry. We're all good. But my opinion remains the same, and it is genuine. My view is not subjected to a democratic agreement. I have not said he's bad. He's clearly a professional and was a very good league player. That has not transferred onto rugby union. He has a good, if not over used off loading game, and his tackles (when leagle) and good. But he doesn't break the line like Ma'a Nonu, he isn't as fast as Ma'a Nonu, his kicking game isn't a franction from what McAlister's is, and he just doesn't look like a world class 2nd 5/8th to me. I fear he is living off his reputation. I think if he played rugby union for 4-5 years (in New Zealand!) then he may be up to that level.

Feicarsinn isn't a hater. He's not negative, and I have the highest respect for him on this forum. If he doesn't agree with what a majority agree upon, then surely that's something that is to be valued? I tend to agree with his view of SBW. He is over rated, partly because he has done nothing to be rated upon.

SBW had a very good game against the Scarlets. That's about it. And he did well. But on the flip side, you'd hope he'd have at least a few good moments. If he was utter sh*t, then obviously Toloun wouldn't offer so much to keep him, but the money they've offered him is due to what they think of his potential, and I don't think he'll get close to reaching that in 2011, and I can't see him sticking around long enough after the World Cup to reach his potential in rugby union while in NZ.

Yes, I am a New Zealander and a proud one, but that doesn't mean I can't look in the mirror and see when we're talking out our asses. New Zealander's have a terrible habbit in rugby. We believe the hype very easily providing a name is mentioned in the news paper and on the TV enough. Our opinion of our rugby, while we are the best in the world, we severly under estimate every other country in rugby, especially those in the NH. Most people in New Zealand are uninformed pundits, and going into a pub you can hear the most contrived trivvle imaginable. Even on this forum you can see from many New Zealand posters (especially while we are winning) the self-loving, one eyed, over opinionated crap. It seems like many of us have our heads so far up our own asses, that it would be impossible to watch a game and call it down the middle.

 

[Sam Owen]

Cool as nick I already know you and Sinn dont like SBW for good reasons. Good reply it makes a lot of good sense to me. Apologies for thinkin you were angry when you wernt, I can only imagime that to be annoying. Alright man, I understand you clearly. Ta.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Hasn't got a case for what? He was dead on. SBW didn't have a memorable game. People talk about his passing being top shelf? Was it? His offload was forward and his first pass was a wild bounce that we recovered. He did nothing to change my opinion from that game, and I can'tt see why Feircarsinn would think he was wrong. He's not a bad player, he's just certainly not worth what he's being paid and he doesn't deserve his reputation, and being one of the few kiwi's who's been streaming games from the Top 14, I think I'm one of the few who even knows what he plays like in rugby union. Most people just watch highlight reals, which are misleading to say the least. At least most NH posters have watched him play and most don't share kiwi's extreme optomism about SBW (except Cymro).

Your the type of person who goes round and looks for small things that players do wrong and make a massive song and dance. He was good but not going to set the world alight with that performance. Also when you say ' I'm one of the few who even knows' smacks of pure arrogance. Let the man play. You aint given him a chance, now that's a fact for sure. Stop blaming him for the money also, the NZ board made that decision, can't blame him if the money was there to take. I bet all would do the same.

Yeah but, doesn't Cymro like Gavin Henson? Which voids any opinion

Sit down and shut up. You might find cyRil is that man. Coming from the great I am, who supposedly has an agent and is a London Wasps Academy player but has been firmly found out and ousted its quite funny. What also makes me laugh is that fact that in his entire response you have to point me out. I don't care for the 'simile' as the tongue and cheek at the end of that pointless post because you are a fake and a liar!

 

[nickdnz]

Cool as nick I already know you and Sinn dont like SBW for good reasons. Good reply it makes a lot of good sense to me. Apologies for thinkin you were angry when you wernt, I can only imagime that to be annoying. Alright man, I understand you clearly. Ta.

Haha, no worries. I can come off pretty strong on the SBW issue, just because it's so commonly talked about. I think it's a waste of NZ money, and I think the NZRU need to reflect on what signing a new overseas player for that amount of money, says to rugby players and the public, but other than that it's not really a big issue. I think I extended my post before your reply, sorry lol. Though it was a dig an New Zealander's, which has been long over due by a New Zealander (no, Squrrel is not a kiwi).