[Six Nations 2018] Round 2: England vs Wales (10/02/2018)

[Scotty]

I think a fully fit england v fully fit wales would see wales win. But below that wales still have problems with depth. this is due to 1) gatland failing to develop a second team 2) wales crappping their A team? and 3) The actual over physical nature of warrenball has resulted in more injuries 4) the age old problem small population base

Can you name this fully fit wales side that? I dont actually know who you would have in certain positions?

 

[TommiG88]

No chance . The Welsh players you talk about coming back haven't been good for some time other than Faletau and Jon Davies . Yet we have players like Billy Vunipola, Joe Marler and Elliott Daly our . A fully fit England vs Wales at Twickers ends in a 10+ point win to England

He's on the wind up. His last two posts have been a poor attempt.

Furthermore a fully fit Wales team lost to us last year at the Principality.

 

[bushytop]

No chance . The Welsh players you talk about coming back haven't been good for some time other than Faletau and Jon Davies . Yet we have players like Billy Vunipola, Joe Marler and Elliott Daly our . A fully fit England vs Wales at Twickers ends in a 10+ point win to England

Everyone seems to speak with such definitive knowledge of situations that haven't happened for whatever reason. I actually think that if we had of had everyone fit it would only strengthen our chances wherever we play, in much the same way that if all,of the English players were back it would strengthen them too.

The players who 'haven't been good for some time' a) just recently helped square a Lions series in NZ and b) have been handcuffed to a playing style that I have seen many on here (Welsh and otherwise) have seen as the cause for their less than stellar performances.

We will never know as by the time Wales next travel to Twickers things could and probably will be different, both in terms of those playing and the form going in. What I do know though is in addition to JD2 and Faletau; Webb, Biggar (yes he gets stick but so does Mike Brown & look how that turned out on Saturday), Preistland, North, Williams and Halfpenny would only strengthen Wales chances. I'm not saying they would win or would lose, it's just in accordance with the laws of probability that they would be better equipped for the challenge.

 

[ncurd]

Not going to argue Wales would be better equipped but a fully fit v fully fit the bookies would favour England and they'd likely be right given the form record of both and home advantage.

The Lions series though you'll see many people argue that Gatland's/Howley's loyalty to some Welsh players and tactics probably hampered a potential series win, even then they couldn't beat a side depleted to 14 men for the majority of a match.



Part of me is utterly baffled that some people still underestimate England after the past two years, except for NZ (and possibly even then) they'll go into any game at Twickenham as favourites. They'll even go into most away matches as favourites as well with only Ireland and NZ considered as likely losses.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Kiwis loved Sinkler on the Lions Tour. Great impact player. Perhaps too mobile. Too much of a ball carrier for England selectors get their heads around.

....?
You do realise Sinckler is part of our first choice 23? He's been unavailable because of injury

 

[duncanb]

In the pro era of RU the intensity the sport has injuries are expected by all coaches.
It is the ability to produce international standard squads thst is key not a starting 15.
Jones in fairness has brought on a number of players to international standard that previous management teams didn't.
I coincide England have a larger pool to choose from.

 

[bushytop]

Not going to argue Wales would be better equipped but a fully fit v fully fit the bookies would favour England and they'd likely be right given the form record of both and home advantage.

The Lions series though you'll see many people argue that Gatland's/Howley's loyalty to some Welsh players and tactics probably hampered a potential series win, even then they couldn't beat a side depleted to 14 men for the majority of a match.



Part of me is utterly baffled that some people still underestimate England after the past two years, except for NZ (and possibly even then) they'll go into any game at Twickenham as favourites. They'll even go into most away matches as favourites as well with only Ireland and NZ considered as likely losses.

I don't and haven't underestimated England at all (pretty much throughout this thread prior to the match I stated that they were favourites and should win).

All I'm saying is that going off the most recent evidence we ain't that far away... and with everyone fit I would argue even closer.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Part of me is utterly baffled that some people still underestimate England after the past two years, except for NZ (and possibly even then) they'll go into any game at Twickenham as favourites. They'll even go into most away matches as favourites as well with only Ireland and NZ considered as likely losses.

I don't underestimate us, but nor am I wholly convinced. Last year we lost to Ire, Wal should have closed it out and we narrowly scuffed past a poor France. If Lady Luck had been smiling on others we could easily have lost all 3 and we could have lost again on Sat. We didn't, and winning's a great habit. Teams respect us and know they'll be in for a tough afternoon but I don't think that we're close to having an AB style aura about us.

 

[ncurd]

I don't think the ABs have an aura about them anymore, I think quite a few teams know on thier day they are emminently beatable.

Its not that sides think they could beat us just the people like truthtellar who for some reason think they'd go into a game and definitely win. I'll agree they are in a minority though.

 

[The5thOfficial]

I think when all said and done, yeah Wales lost Saturday but England know they were in a game that they could have lost, with or without that non-try. Just like they know they could have lost any of the close games they've been in. Like I said s*** happens and it can happen any day. And on the ABs - I suspect they'd turn it up a notch or two, just for England. England won't get No1 in the rankings any time soon.

 

[MikeTheNative]

It was a very professional performance from England, they executed the kicking game extremely well and scored two good tries. Their defensive pressure was excellent and Wales really struggled for much of the game to really create anything. However I would take that as a positive for Wales, Twickenham is a hard place to go to and to be in with a chance of winning it in the last play (however likely) is pretty decent. It's a shame about Pacthell he didn't have the best of days but I still think he is the way forward for Wales and would start him for wales. Wales had too many basic errors though and that was the difference between the teams, every time they would get into a good position in the 22, they would lose a line out or knock it on (there were many of these). I think Jones really got one up on Gatland at the start. Wales seemed to take England on at a kicking game which they were never going to win and I know the conditions were poor but i thought they would have backed themselves a bit more with the ball in hand. I still don't get the obsession of not kicking to touch though.

 

[ncurd]

Its being adaptable thats been the issue for Wales for a long time. If plan A fails they continue with it stubbornly as if it will magically work.

Its not bad they went into those conditions thinking to play the aerial game, its the fact they continued when clearly they were loosing it comprehensively. I'd like to think England and other top teams would of changed tact well before.

We lost in Dublin last year but we had parity with them most of match so it was hard to see what could of be done differently (apart from winning the forward battle easier said than done once in the match).

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think it's worth noting that Wales on more than 1 occasion illegal slowed down or turned the ball over in their 22 without being penalised, the 2 penalty count is just flat out wrong. One ruck the ball squirted out the back was a Welsh hand and another Care spent ages trying the wrench the ball out of the ruck with a Welsh player lying on the wrong side.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Yeah I agree, players should have realised that themselves but surely the call had to come from management at a certain point to be relayed to the players? Losing halfpenny was a big blow, Anscombe struggled defensively and also after the missed kick earlier on they didn't seem to trust Pacthell to kick. However Jones' has turned down points before during his captaincy of Wales to go for the corner.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I think it's worth noting that Wales on more than 1 occasion illegal slowed down or turned the ball over in their 22 without being penalised, the 2 penalty count is just flat out wrong. One ruck the ball squirted out the back was a Welsh hand and another Care spent ages trying the wrench the ball out of the ruck with a Welsh player lying on the wrong side.

Ref didn't pick it up so there's not much point of focusing too much on things like these which happen at every ruck.

 

[ncurd]

I think Garces offciating of the breakdown with off feat and hands in the ruck was appaling for boht sides.

He'd yell hands off a lot but not actually penalise it despite it being clearly a tactic, I don't mind it if its not endemic but it was in this game.

Both teams probably had a few (I'd argue England more due to territory percentages) kickable penalities denied due to illegal turnovers or decent attacks fail eventually due to slowed down ball.

Fair play to playing the ref but Garces needs an internal review board kicking.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I think Garces offciating of the breakdown with off feat and hands in the ruck was appaling for boht sides.

He'd yell hands off a lot but not actually penalise it despite it being clearly a tactic, I don't mind it if its not endemic but it was in this game.

Both teams probably had a few (I'd argue England more due to territory percentages) kickable penalities denied due to illegal turnovers or decent attacks fail eventually due to slowed down ball.

Fair play to playing the ref but Garces needs an internal review board kicking.

He definitely didn't help give the game any flow which is hard to get in the conditions in the first place.

 

[ThebigARena]

I think it's worth noting that Wales on more than 1 occasion illegal slowed down or turned the ball over in their 22 without being penalised, the 2 penalty count is just flat out wrong. One ruck the ball squirted out the back was a Welsh hand and another Care spent ages trying the wrench the ball out of the ruck with a Welsh player lying on the wrong side.

What about mike brown getting away with murder deliberately slowing the ball down potential try saver that's a straight yellow card and the fact England played a lot of the game in an offside position was clearly missed

 

[The5thOfficial]

I think it's worth noting that Wales on more than 1 occasion illegal slowed down or turned the ball over in their 22 without being penalised, the 2 penalty count is just flat out wrong. One ruck the ball squirted out the back was a Welsh hand and another Care spent ages trying the wrench the ball out of the ruck with a Welsh player lying on the wrong side.

But how many more were England not called out on? My point in above post exactly!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But how many more were England not called out on? My point in above post exactly!

Fewer, the penalty count shows our actions were penalized more frequently. The stats show us giving away 5 times as many penalties as Wales, does that sound even remotely accurate?