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[Six Nations 2018] Round 1: Italy Vs England (04/02/2018)
- Thread starter Which Tyler
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Like who?
JJFlash
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For example, I'd have liked to see Cowan-Dickie and Armand in the squad.
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Good call but isnt Cowan-Dickie injured?
JJFlash
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Don't know.
MarkyH
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So much negativity as usual. Blimey, where's our arrogance gone? 
These players aren't as bad as we're making out, we had a weaker squad in the summer and beat Argentina twice. We've basically got the core of our backs from our last 2 6N triumphs and the victories in between. These time last year we had Wood and Haskell in the backrow so I'm much happier now.
Front row, fine, its boring but it's experienced and dependable. Our back up options are fantastic.
Second row, spoilt for choice.
Backrow problems, but only cause of a lack of Billy. Still better than last year. Rather see Laws/Itoje with Robshaw than Wood or Hask. We all like Simmonds and Underhill has a ton of potential. Never mind the Curry bros who are missing out, and think of the options we could pick for the summer.
The backs is basically the same. Brown is unfairly criticised but is totally dependable. He doesn't pass as often as he should, but he doesn't lose the ball either. From 9-14 they are core match winners for England. Te'o needs to be sharp to be a 'finisher' for the rest of the tournament, so give him more minutes now. It gives us a extra carrier too and makes Ford less of a target, I think the wingers will get more of the ball because of this. JJ is only be rested to make sure Te'o is super sharp later in the tournament....
There's plenty of players missing out I'd love to see (B Curry, Armand, LCD) but this 23 is absolutely fine.
These players aren't as bad as we're making out, we had a weaker squad in the summer and beat Argentina twice. We've basically got the core of our backs from our last 2 6N triumphs and the victories in between. These time last year we had Wood and Haskell in the backrow so I'm much happier now.
Front row, fine, its boring but it's experienced and dependable. Our back up options are fantastic.
Second row, spoilt for choice.
Backrow problems, but only cause of a lack of Billy. Still better than last year. Rather see Laws/Itoje with Robshaw than Wood or Hask. We all like Simmonds and Underhill has a ton of potential. Never mind the Curry bros who are missing out, and think of the options we could pick for the summer.
The backs is basically the same. Brown is unfairly criticised but is totally dependable. He doesn't pass as often as he should, but he doesn't lose the ball either. From 9-14 they are core match winners for England. Te'o needs to be sharp to be a 'finisher' for the rest of the tournament, so give him more minutes now. It gives us a extra carrier too and makes Ford less of a target, I think the wingers will get more of the ball because of this. JJ is only be rested to make sure Te'o is super sharp later in the tournament....
There's plenty of players missing out I'd love to see (B Curry, Armand, LCD) but this 23 is absolutely fine.
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It's not that the players are bad it's the combinations are poor.
I can't see a Ford/Farrell/Teo midfield working (I mean it might vs Italy I guess, but that's not really an accurate barometer of top level rugby) and the backrow is terrible, especially with Underhill on the bench (And EJ repeatedly saying Robshaw is a terrible 7 and should never play there, in the past)
I can't see a Ford/Farrell/Teo midfield working (I mean it might vs Italy I guess, but that's not really an accurate barometer of top level rugby) and the backrow is terrible, especially with Underhill on the bench (And EJ repeatedly saying Robshaw is a terrible 7 and should never play there, in the past)
He picked marler and Haskell who are suspended and Solomona who is injured
JJFlash
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Exactly! An opportunity goes begging for an up and coming openside wing forward, like one of the Currys.
MarkyH
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He picked marler and Haskell who are suspended and Solomona who is injured
If I wanted to pick a problem that would be it. Why not Ben Curry or Armand?
Anyway, still quite happy, it's only one game, and one we should win!
Hap
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ITALIA
15 Matteo MINOZZI (Zebre Rugby Club, 3 caps)*
14 Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Rugby, 45 caps)*
13 Tommaso BONI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
12 Tommaso CASTELLO (Zebre Rugby Club, 5 caps)
11 Mattia BELLINI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
10 Tommaso ALLAN (Benetton Rugby, 33 caps)
9 Marcello VIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 129 caps) – capitano
7 Renato GIAMMARIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 1 cap)*
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
5 Dean BUDD (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
4 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Rugby, 99 caps)
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulosain, 89 caps)
1 Andrea LOVOTTI (Zebre Rugby Club, 20 caps)*
a disposizione
16 Luca BIGI (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
17 Nicola QUAGLIO (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)*
18 Tiziano PASQUALI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
19 George BIAGI (Zebre Rugby Club, 19 caps)
20 Maxime MBANDA' (Zebre Rugby Club, 11 caps)*
21 Edoardo GORI (Benetton Rugby, 65 caps)*
22 Carlo CANNA (Zebre Rugby Club, 25 caps)
23 Jayden HAYWARD (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)
15 Matteo MINOZZI (Zebre Rugby Club, 3 caps)*
14 Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Rugby, 45 caps)*
13 Tommaso BONI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
12 Tommaso CASTELLO (Zebre Rugby Club, 5 caps)
11 Mattia BELLINI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
10 Tommaso ALLAN (Benetton Rugby, 33 caps)
9 Marcello VIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 8 caps)*
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 129 caps) – capitano
7 Renato GIAMMARIOLI (Zebre Rugby Club, 1 cap)*
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
5 Dean BUDD (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
4 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Rugby, 99 caps)
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 8 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulosain, 89 caps)
1 Andrea LOVOTTI (Zebre Rugby Club, 20 caps)*
a disposizione
16 Luca BIGI (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)
17 Nicola QUAGLIO (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)*
18 Tiziano PASQUALI (Benetton Rugby, 2 caps)
19 George BIAGI (Zebre Rugby Club, 19 caps)
20 Maxime MBANDA' (Zebre Rugby Club, 11 caps)*
21 Edoardo GORI (Benetton Rugby, 65 caps)*
22 Carlo CANNA (Zebre Rugby Club, 25 caps)
23 Jayden HAYWARD (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)
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Maybe Eddie would have been bolder on the flanks if Binny or Hughes had been available. - he's chosen to surround Simmonds with experience which is OK. Just checking I'm reading the back row right - we've got a 5 at 6, a 6 who the coach said couldn't play 7 at 7 and a 7 or maybe 6 or maybe 8 at 8 (but he's the Saviour so it doesn't really matter what number HE wears). Not sure about 3 locks starting and another on the bench. Underhill feels more like a starter than finisher.
Very pleased to see Teo. In principle. Understand the giving him game time argument, but it's the wrong message - everyone should have to prove some form / match fitness first. Not like we don't have other options and its crucial we have him. Slade must be particularly p*ssed off.
Of course we should focus on this tournament, but everything that happens now has relevance to Japan. This team will be more than good enough for Italy, but feels like a bit of a wasted opportunity.
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Hap
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Good Leicester memories?
Happy to see him there? You should be, unfortunately for us
Anyway, Tiziano is really improved lately this year at Treviso but is not even close to Test level at the moment. Not even as a replacement, in my opinion.
We are just waiting for Riccioni to grow (last year U20 Captain), he's been stopped by injuries in September and fully recovered just few weeks ago otherwise I've no doubt he'd have been at 18 instead of Pasquali.
MarkyH
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Good points, but Slade is injured matey!!
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Cheers, hadn't picked up on that!
Jakedood
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Just realising the potential of the English backrow by the end of this season or start of next year... Underhill is a great six, Simmonds at 7 sounds fantastic, especially if they make improvements on their pilfering ability. Add in Billy Vunipola, and youve got 2 or maybe all 3 as big workhorses in that pack, 2 athletic fast defenders, 2 great ball carriers. It looks like it has some very balanced potential, as long as they keep improving. All the physical attributes to get stuck into test rugby for Underhill and Simmonds, they just need to keep learning and keep pushing hard
MarkyH
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I was going to take this discussion into the EPS squad part of the forum but you've beat me to it. That's a backrow I'd love to see. I'd also love to see a 6. Hughes 7. Simmonds 8. Billy if we want a backrow full of carrying. Or I'd love to see 6. Underhill 7. Curry (any) 8. Billy.
We could have so many options in the backrow moving forward we could pick horses for courses..
Sorry, for taking the discussion further off topic
Hap
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Not worried about back row, they've a few caps, it's true, but it's the spot where we have the max amount of good prospects. They're still not famous but I'm sure people like Giammarioli, Negri, Polledri and specially Licata (injuried) will attract your attention in the next future. And I'm sure they'll perform well Sunday too.
The huge and main problem with the pack is 2nd rows. We lack of internationals, we have good boys but nothing more. And the props, they're good but seem to struggle with the last scrum rules, they're still adapting slowly and with the poor support from the guys behind'em it's not easy.
Between all my concerns, since we are weaker in any spot except number 8, my biggest one is the scrum. If we are going to be rolled over since the beginning of the match it'll be a walloping, as you wrote. If not, the gap will be smaller. Props are good and the hooker too but we are far far away from the qualities of people like Castro, Lo Cicero, Perugini and so on. Plus Zanni and Budd are blindsides adapted at lock position and it's not enough. So it's really going to start from there.
Backs: COS has chosen Allan instead of Canna which means 0 attacking fantasy, it's a clear defensive call and I don't know how much is going to pay since Allan isn't a stonewall either. With Canna and the others Zebre guys at the backs we are used to loose the majority of the games but we have fun, at least. Isn't it worthwhile?
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Ben Youngs, Dylan Hartley, Mike Brown, possibly even Ben Teo. Some would say Robshaw but I'd disagree, think he'll be an important player this six nations.
But of course, by the time the world cup rolls around we will have a backrow of 6/7 Willis/Underhill 8. Vunipola
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