Second Test: Australia vs. British and Irish Lions (29/06/13)

[InsaneAsylum]

jeez there's a lot of contention about the lions starting lineup. It's much easier being a Wallabies fan:
1. our coach sux
2. our players suck
3. If we lose this game, hopefully we get a new coach
4. If we win this game, we may pull off a miracle to win the series


I've got a feeling there might be a bit of biffo in this game, at some stage the trailing team, whoever that is, will get frustrated and try to spice it up based on what's at stake. Love him or hate him, if we lose the series, there will always be the question: would we have won with quade at 10?

 

[shtove]

jeez there's a lot of contention about the lions starting lineup. It's much easier being a Wallabies fan:
1. our coach sux
2. our players suck
3. If we lose this game, hopefully we get a new coach
4. If we win this game, we may pull off a miracle to win the series


I've got a feeling there might be a bit of biffo in this game, at some stage the trailing team, whoever that is, will get frustrated and try to spice it up based on what's at stake.

I like your thinking, but Lions don't have enough Leicester/Munster to start biffo time.

For Aus, good to see Ashley Cooper in there - may settle the outhalf.

Not happy with the centre selection for Lions - too defensive. Prefer to see North starting with BOD outside.

So - Aus to unsettle Lions set piece (biffo if necessary), match will be won in midfield. Therefore suxy Wallabies to win.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

For Aus, good to see Ashley Cooper in there - may settle the outhalf.

yeah he adds a lot of value to the backline, although i'll be covering my eyes and peeking out the corner when he is tackled or makes a tackle. Had his arm in a sling 5 days ago and it reeks a bit of uncle Robbie rushing his favourites back from injury. Arguably Ioane and McCabe fell into that category last week.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I like your thinking, but Lions don't have enough Leicester/Munster to start biffo time.

You say that, but there's always a bit of someething whenever the Youngs brothers play together.
Someone will give Ben a slap or a shove off the ball and Tom will go in swinging.

 

[SuperEagle]

A lot of nonsense has been written about Tom Croft on here - to blame him for the 2 Aussie tries is just ridiculous.

I don't think Gatland's decision to bring Lydiate in for Croft is related to form, more to practicality.

Some posted on here that last week, the Lions' pack was about 15kg lighter that the Wallabies'. Parling and AWJ are our lightest lock pair and Croft, Warburton and Heaslip are our lightest 6,7 and 8 respectively so sticking with the same backrow leaves us with a very lightweight pack.

Obviously, WG feels this is an issue so Lydiate comes in to give the pack more ballast and more weight. Croft, a very different sort of player, comes on later as a game changer.

I see the logic. Come on the Lions!

 

[Ospreylian]

So George North has basically been forced to apologize (by Andy Irvine) for his finger pointing in the first test:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23094171

He says he feels "horrendous" and "terrible" about it.

I'm sorry but if this was something he has been pushed into doing I think it's absolutely beyond ridiculous. Why on earth has such a huge fuss been created over something so minor?? If it was his own decision to apologize, fair play to him and I respect him for doing so, even if he really didn't need to imo.

I'm just baffled at how he has been made to feel like this was "horrendous" behaviour, especially by the lions management. It was a spur of the moment celebration, after scoring one of the best tries of his career so far. Give the guy a f***ing break.

Why is it that finger pointing is criticized to this degree, but this is allowed to go on:

This is something far worse imo. It's cocky and arrogant but also has the potential to cost a team their try if it screws up. Not once has Ashton ever been forced to apologize for doing it though (as far as I'm aware).

North should start doing backflips before he touches down, see if the management are happier with him doing some sh** like that instead, seems the general consensus

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We should rename this section the "Slag off the English" section, as that's all it ever boils down to.

For my money finger pointing is worse than diving over the line as you're directly taunting the opposition player rather than celebrating a try, however I don't really give a flying .... about either.
The only thing that irked me about North's point was the hypocrisy shown by those who wanted to lynch Armitage but liked North.



On Croft being dropped I think super Eagle hits on a good point. Also we'll need some extra grunt in the tight work with POC out as his work there/workrate are second to none.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

 

[McTallshort]

So George North has basically been forced to apologize (by Andy Irvine) for his finger pointing in the first test:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23094171

He says he feels "horrendous" and "terrible" about it.

I'm sorry but if this was something he has been pushed into doing I think it's absolutely beyond ridiculous. Why on earth has such a huge fuss been created over something so minor?? If it was his own decision to apologize, fair play to him and I respect him for doing so, even if he really didn't need to imo.

I'm just baffled at how he has been made to feel like this was "horrendous" behaviour, especially by the lions management. It was a spur of the moment celebration, after scoring one of the best tries of his career so far. Give the guy a f***ing break.

Why is it that finger pointing is criticized to this degree, but this is allowed to go on:

This is something far worse imo. It's cocky and arrogant but also has the potential to cost a team their try if it screws up. Not once has Ashton ever been forced to apologize for doing it though (as far as I'm aware).

North should start doing backflips before he touches down, see if the management are happier with him doing some sh** like that instead, seems the general consensus

So because a Scotsman asks a welsh player to apologize we all have a go at Chris Ashton....

 

[Ospreylian]

We should rename this section the "Slag off the English" section, as that's all it ever boils down to.

For my money finger pointing is worse than diving over the line as you're directly taunting the opposition player rather than celebrating a try, however I don't really give a flying .... about either.
The only thing that irked me about North's point was the hypocrisy shown by those who wanted to lynch Armitage but liked North.

For the record, I'm not one of the ones who had any problem with Armitage.

But I'm honestly not finding an excuse to slag off Ashton (or an English player) for the sake of it. I do genuinely dislike the swallow dive, as I'm sure many people on this forum do. I remember Shane Williams did it a couple of times in his career and I always thought "just put the bloody ball down you idiot".

A few people have used the word "taunting" now, and I just think that word makes it sound far worse than it actually was. I'm pretty damn sure Genia didn't expect any sort of apology for the incident, because plenty of "argy bargy" (can't believe I just used that term) goes on the field of play and nobody ever complains about any of it. I've read Shane's autobiography in which he mentions that during a Wales v South Africa game he was shouting and swearing at Habana all match, which could be classed as "taunting", or maybe it's just what happens on a rugby field - nobody takes anything personally or to heart and all is forgotten after the game.

The swallow dive is a worse celebration because it has a lot more potential to backfire on the try-scorer. Here is a prime example:

 

[Ospreylian]

So because a Scotsman asks a welsh player to apologize we all have a go at Chris Ashton....

How have we "all" started having a go at Ashton? All I did was bring up him as an example of a type of celebration I dislike. It just happened that Ashton was the first player that came to mind, and that's mainly because he does it so often.

 

[McTallshort]

Does he? not seen him score for a while.......

 

[Ospreylian]

Does he? not seen him score for a while.......

fair point that. Hasn't had much opportunity of late!

 

[ratsapprentice]

As has been said, the distinction between celebrating your own success and directly taunting another player is what's being made.

Having said that, I don't really mind a little bit of reasonable taunting, as long as it's done as part of "mind-games" (another annoying term).
A little tap to the back of the head after you've smashed someone in a tackle, or they drop the ball etc...
I think most players understand and take those sort of things on the chin as part of the game at all levels.
Or a little bit of sledging.
I don't really feel that pointing at someone as you outpace them falls into that category.
I certainly agree that he shouldn't feel "horrendous" about it, but I think he's just trying to make a point.

Ashton's dive wouldn't be nearly so stupid if he saved it for truly worthy tries, like the length of the field one he scored against Aus.
The trouble is he does it for almost all of them, despite him saying he would save them for "special occasions".
Management have had words with him about it, telling him that he will be in the **** if he drops the ball.


On a completely separate point, does anyone else find Lydiate's voice extremely irritating?

 

[Amiga500]

A lot of nonsense has been written about Tom Croft on here - to blame him for the 2 Aussie tries is just ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF8excq1FoQ&feature=player_embedded

1st try - 2m 00 sec in.
Who shoots the line and fails to get either ball or man?

2nd try - 6m 45 sec in.
Who again shoots the line and fails to get within the same timezone as the ball or men?


In both cases, a fairly good (admittedly, not excellent) defensive structure was completely compromised by one man.


If he is gonna hang about out wide like a wannabe back - he has to know how to defend like one.

 

[McTallshort]

oh dear can see Amiga is not a Croft fan, even goes into great detail to discredit him. Sad really the object of a Lions tour is to win the test match not to get as many Irishmen in the test team.

 

[Ospreylian]

oh dear can see Amiga is not a Croft fan, even goes into great detail to discredit him. Sad really the object of a Lions tour is to win the test match not to get as many Irishmen in the test team.

Lol you seem to have some sort of paranoid complex on this thread whereby you have yourself believe all posters of nations other than England are out to pick on English players.

I think Amiga just thinks Croft isn't up to scratch atm, not because Croft's English or because Amiga wants more Irishmen filling the team. Those tries are hard to analyse in terms of who was at fault in defence, but there are elements to Croft's game that I think could rightly be criticised at the moment. NOT because he is English, just to make that clear.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Tom Court is Australian, so obviously a double agent like deans and cooper are for NZ. Hopefully this Tom Court bloke can win us the series starting with some laxatives in the teams coffee tomorrow morning

 

[lynam1104]

Tom Court is Australian, so obviously a double agent like deans and cooper are for NZ. Hopefully this Tom Court bloke can win us the series starting with some laxatives in the teams coffee tomorrow morning

Was thinking about doing this to the Wallabies myself as i've ended in the same Hotel as them

 

[SelimNiai]

Tom Court is Australian, so obviously a double agent like deans and cooper are for NZ. Hopefully this Tom Court bloke can win us the series starting with some laxatives in the teams coffee tomorrow morning

Wouldn't think you enjoy seeing any more of George Norths' runs

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XDzZYK6ivSo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Lol you seem to have some sort of paranoid complex on this thread whereby you have yourself believe all posters of nations other than England are out to pick on English players.

I think Amiga just thinks Croft isn't up to scratch atm, not because Croft's English or because Amiga wants more Irishmen filling the team. Those tries are hard to analyse in terms of who was at fault in defence, but there are elements to Croft's game that I think could rightly be criticised at the moment. NOT because he is English, just to make that clear.

Amiga: you're talking out your arse, sorry. Ospreylian: Don't pay lip-service to it!

In the first, Croft isn't part of the defensive system, he comes into it from afar and buys a dummy (big deal). If you want to establish who's at fault, look no further than Philips jogging back. The majority of other forwards would not have been at all involved in this play simply because they wouldn't have the alacrity to get to it and involve themselves.

In the second... I just don't understand... there's a HUUUGE gap in the middle of the field with Croft potentially covering 3 men..he goes towards his man(Alexander I think) who shifts the ball away from contact and into space. Firstly, how is this even counted as a defensive system... let alone a good system!? Space was exploited by skillfull backs. Folau then wrongfoots Sexton and a few others... I'm not going to go and say the defensive system was compromised by Sexton...

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be starting Croft at this moment in time, but to say he is the one man at fault in two tries is nonsense.

Many players have made mistakes on this tour, are still in the match day squads, and are not subjected to such criticism and scrutiny.