Scotland v England

[The All Whites]

Can you believe English were thinking a slam was possible after first 2 games :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why not think of a slam? You set out to achieve it but doesn't mean it will happen.

How can people say Flood outperformed Wilkinson when he came on, he barely had any ball to perform with. And i dare say England may well have won if Wilko had still been on.

It's a long shot and never going to happen but how great would it be if Cipriani was selected for Paris! And i'd start with Foden and Youngs.

 

[Rocket Singh]

We may as well throw our lot in with Flood, Geraghty and (Alex) Goode. Let those three sort it out amongst themselves and we'll be okay.

 

[feicarsinn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Mar 13 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Flood is rubbish. You are fooling yourselves. Cipriani is the only capable player in that position for England, so I'm glad he's off to wherever.[/b]

Sums up the current English flyhalf situation perfectly. Despite all the calls for the likes of Flood, Myler, Geraghty, Hodgeson and co. to be introduced, it's unlikely tha any of them would makeany major difference. Fact of the matter is none of them are much more than solid club players and have been shown up when playing at a higher level. Cipriani on the other hand has the potential to do something those boys can't at least. I reckon it's time to look at lads like Alex Goode and the next crop of young 10's because with the current contenders England are never going to be able to utilise their backs in any meaningful way or control a game.

Oh and how crap was Flutey yesterday?

 

[The All Whites]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Mar 14 2010, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Mar 13 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Flood is rubbish. You are fooling yourselves. Cipriani is the only capable player in that position for England, so I'm glad he's off to wherever.[/b]

Sums up the current English flyhalf situation perfectly. Despite all the calls for the likes of Flood, Myler, Geraghty, Hodgeson and co. to be introduced, it's unlikely tha any of them would makeany major difference. Fact of the matter is none of them are much more than solid club players and have been shown up when playing at a higher level. Cipriani on the other hand has the potential to do something those boys can't at least. I reckon it's time to look at lads like Alex Goode and the next crop of young 10's because with the current contenders England are never going to be able to utilise their backs in any meaningful way or control a game.

Oh and how crap was Flutey yesterday?
[/b][/quote]

Yeah at times i forgot Flutey was playing. He does have a tendency to sink away in games. I feel he needs to stand much flatter and he will recieve better ball from the 10 and may actually do some damage we all know he's capable of.

 

[Olyy]

I really like Flutey as a player, solid in defence, and when he's got the ball can be very dangerous, but i agree that yesterday he was a bit anonymous. However, i think that's more due to the set pieces than him as a player. The commentators/whoever it was that draws arrows and circles over the pitch kept showing that, at the set piece, the players are just in poor positions, really far away and far back, so it's obvious what's going on.
The attacks where the players just seemed to be winging it was when we almost got a try (the one where we had a three man overlap, but wilkinson chucked the ball to hartley on the wing instead of just down the line). Who is it that designs the set pieces? Maybe they should change him/get him to do a better job


Also, i think Geraghty is a great prospect for the future. On his day he can be fantastic, he just has a mare every now and then. I think Alex Goode is "goode" as well (badum-tss), at FB and FH. Would be a good bench player, however Johnson loves Armitage, so he'll always be in the 22 so i'd rather have Foden there. I'd like to see flood at 10 and Geraghty on the bench at some point.

I don't understand why Johnson called Charlie Hodgson into the squad last week when Wilkinson had a twinge in training. Hodgson is solid for Sale, but has shown that he can't perform to the same standard for England. Johnson should've called someone new in, rather than another old boy who doesn't perform as well.

 

[Rocket Singh]

At the same time though England's issues are three fold: the pack producing ball, the half back pairing and that pairing's relationship with the rest of the backs.

Lets look at the Lions for example. You had a very physical and efficient back row competing for quick ball, a good scrum half who quickly and accurately gets the ball to the fly half who in turn was in tune with the center pairing of BOD and Jamie Roberts and thus Ugo Monye, Rob Kearney and so on. The result was relentless quick ball ruthlessly exploited by a remarkably slick back line.

Compare that with England currently where nothing seems to work properly. You have a back row of Haskell, Worsely and Easter who lack pace and the ability to dig for the ball like GOD (i.e. HRH Richard Hill AKA The King of Kings, GOD, the one free man, etc) Neil Back, etc content instead to just let the rest of the pack do the hard work. Then you have Danny Care who cannot boss the forwards to get the ball he needs and when he does he is so slow in getting it out that the opportunity is wasted.

Finally you have Care and Wilkinson who don't seem to click. Wilkinson continues to stand deep but that is partly because nobody is bossing him. He looks to Tait & Flutey and they're meandering around and aren't coming onto the ball at pace. This creates a knock on effect to Monye, Cueto and Armitage/Foden.

EDIT: I say this again and again here but Wilko needs to be bossed to perform. He doesn't like having to make the decisions. The primary reason why he tried his quadruple missed pass thingy to nothing was because nobody, not Tait, not Flutey nobody was yelling at him to just spread it wide conventionally which means he's having to force things himself which he is never comfortable with.

Flood presents more options in attack as does Foden but then you go back to square one with the issue with the pack and Danny Care and it all falls down again. Slow ball means that Flood and thus everyone else from 12 onwards is having to force things.

The issue therefore is to start with the pack and specifically the back row which simply does not perform.

The bad press against Cueto recently I find is laughable as first of all he doesn't get enough ball to do anything remotely bad with it and second he has been consistently far more secure under the high ball and better in defence than both Armitage and Monye have been. The guy has been good for England, leave him alone and focus on the guys who simply aren't performing.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The All Whites @ Mar 14 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And i dare say England may well have won if Wilko had still been on.[/b]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
aha....

*deep breath*


...hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!


Anyway.


Of note in that match: Once the constipated backs were got shot of, it's amazing how much better England looked. No Wilkinson, no Armitage and no Monye then suddenly we looked like an attacking threat. Of course this was only because Johnsons hand was forced, so no doubt he will revert to the old familiar for the next match.


Player by player:

Payne - Useless f***wit born of the planet f***wit with the life mission to be an incompetent f***wit.
Hartley - Is he better then Mears? Yes. A million miles better. Is he the best English qualified hooker? Yes. Is he the replacement for Thompson (circa 2002 form)? I'm not sure.
Cole - Could be the real deal. Looked excellent in an under-performing pack.
Deacon - f*** off and die, useless twat.
Borthwick - Same as Deacon
Haskell - Is an idiot. He really is. Getting worse as the tournament goes on.
Worsley - Tackled everything that moved. Can't play rugby for ********.
Easter - Solid, reliable, average, uninspiring, unfit to lace Phil Dowsons boots.
Care - Actually very good. Quick ball, good passing and dangerous sniping.
Wilkinson - ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH. The best thing he did in the whole match was tackle Borthwick with his nose. Doesn't look what he's doing, no brainpower and average at everything else. f*** off.
Cueto - Would be one of the worlds best wingers if he only had some pace. But he doesn't and suffers because of it.
Flutey - A good player, but nowhere near as good as he's made out to be.
Tait - Benefited when Wilkinson went off. Suffers when the backline doesn't work and is forced too deep to make a difference.
Monye - Like a high-class Sackey... All the talent is there but the brainpower is missing.
Armitage - Showing more and more that his decent 2009 was more a fluke then any sort of class.

Thompson - Added more grunt to the scrum but otherwise was a backwards step from Hartley on his arrival.
Lawes - Mixed bag in the short time on the field. A forgettable match.
Flood - Would have been an inspired interchange if Johnson actually had any ********. Still changed the face of England for the good.
Youngs - As difficult a first cap as can be, he did remarkably well considering he was out of position. Looked like a young Austin Healey. Not a bad thing.
Foden - If it wasn't for the Scottish backrow, could have got MOTM in only 20 minutes. Must start in Paris.

 

[Zeilnicht]

Does anyone knows how Ugo Monye is doing?
It was a worrying sight, head on. Literally!

 

[Rocket Singh]

Apparently its not that bad but the RFU will release a further statement tomorrow I think?

 

[Olyy]

He said on twitter that he's fine, just has a mega-headache. All the neck brace and stuff was just precautionary because he took a head-to-the-neck

 

[gingergenius]

Well, I was at the game yesterday and I enjoyed the view of the Edinburgh skyline as the Sun set. I enjoyed nothing else. Complete **** of a game.

It's already been said on this topic and several others so I don't really need to say much about the game, considering it's blatantly obvious where and why England are so poor - poor enough to not even look like scoring against a team that lost to Italy.

Wilkinson's floated miss-pass to a hooker/ touch judge, wasting a 4 on 2 overlap, just about sums up England's attacking capability. The only thing surprising about that play was the fact that a badly-thrown ball was going towards Dylan Hartley rather than out of his own hands.

Interesting move to bring on Foden - he certainly looked livelier than Armitage, even if he did get turned over once or twice.

Wishful thinking, hopeless optimism... and here is my team for the opening game of the 2012 6N, with Richard Cockerill in charge and (insert good coaches here) on the staff.

1. Mullan/ Corbisiero
2. Hartley/ Webber
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Gaskell/ Kennedy
6. Croft
7. Saull/ Rees if he ever gets fit again
8. Narraway/ Dowson
9. Youngs/ Care
10. Flood/ Alex Goode/ Cipriani with his head out of his arse.
11. Cato
12. Waldouck/ Turner-Hall/ Allen
13. Tait/ Waldouck
14. Ashton
15. Armitage/ Foden

These players are to be given time to play good rugby and no one who played with Martin Johnson is allowed to replace them if they're ****. The coach is to be given until after the 2015 world cup before its legally possible for him to quit. And Rob Andrew to be shot.

 

[The All Whites]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 14 2010, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well, I was at the game yesterday and I enjoyed the view of the Edinburgh skyline as the Sun set. I enjoyed nothing else. Complete **** of a game.

It's already been said on this topic and several others so I don't really need to say much about the game, considering it's blatantly obvious where and why England are so poor - poor enough to not even look like scoring against a team that lost to Italy.

Wilkinson's floated miss-pass to a hooker/ touch judge, wasting a 4 on 2 overlap, just about sums up England's attacking capability. The only thing surprising about that play was the fact that a badly-thrown ball was going towards Dylan Hartley rather than out of his own hands.

Interesting move to bring on Foden - he certainly looked livelier than Armitage, even if he did get turned over once or twice.

Wishful thinking, hopeless optimism... and here is my team for the opening game of the 2012 6N, with Richard Cockerill in charge and (insert good coaches here) on the staff.

1. Mullan/ Corbisiero
2. Hartley/ Webber
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Gaskell/ Kennedy
6. Croft
7. Saull/ Rees if he ever gets fit again
8. Narraway/ Dowson
9. Youngs/ Care
10. Flood/ Alex Goode/ Cipriani with his head out of his arse.
11. Cato
12. Waldouck/ Turner-Hall/ Allen
13. Tait/ Waldouck
14. Ashton
15. Armitage/ Foden

These players are to be given time to play good rugby and no one who played with Martin Johnson is allowed to replace them if they're ****. The coach is to be given until after the 2015 world cup before its legally possible for him to quit. And Rob Andrew to be shot.[/b]

Like the look of that pretty much, but you'd drop Flutey over Tait?? How you come to that?

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The All Whites @ Mar 14 2010, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 14 2010, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I was at the game yesterday and I enjoyed the view of the Edinburgh skyline as the Sun set. I enjoyed nothing else. Complete **** of a game.

It's already been said on this topic and several others so I don't really need to say much about the game, considering it's blatantly obvious where and why England are so poor - poor enough to not even look like scoring against a team that lost to Italy.

Wilkinson's floated miss-pass to a hooker/ touch judge, wasting a 4 on 2 overlap, just about sums up England's attacking capability. The only thing surprising about that play was the fact that a badly-thrown ball was going towards Dylan Hartley rather than out of his own hands.

Interesting move to bring on Foden - he certainly looked livelier than Armitage, even if he did get turned over once or twice.

Wishful thinking, hopeless optimism... and here is my team for the opening game of the 2012 6N, with Richard Cockerill in charge and (insert good coaches here) on the staff.

1. Mullan/ Corbisiero
2. Hartley/ Webber
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Gaskell/ Kennedy
6. Croft
7. Saull/ Rees if he ever gets fit again
8. Narraway/ Dowson
9. Youngs/ Care
10. Flood/ Alex Goode/ Cipriani with his head out of his arse.
11. Cato
12. Waldouck/ Turner-Hall/ Allen
13. Tait/ Waldouck
14. Ashton
15. Armitage/ Foden

These players are to be given time to play good rugby and no one who played with Martin Johnson is allowed to replace them if they're ****. The coach is to be given until after the 2015 world cup before its legally possible for him to quit. And Rob Andrew to be shot.[/b]

Like the look of that pretty much, but you'd drop Flutey over Tait?? How you come to that?
[/b][/quote]
Because Fluteys an inside not outside centre.
Also Fluteys 30/31, so probably won't last until 2015, especially with the injuries he's been picking up recently

 

[The All Whites]

Suppose he is ageing. I see you are completely dismissing next years world cup and just looking forward to 2015! I may have to start too.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just on comment I made about England thinkinkin a slam was possible..........
But why put that unwanted pressure on a team that already are smothered with pressure and have slipped into a tier that is JUST above Italy and Scotland.

Like England are in serious trouble and unless they make BIG changes ASAP then they'll be in a very poor place.

 

[Rocket Singh]

I dunno, find an England fan on this forum who thought that England could get the grand slam (highly unlikely) and he'll try to explain why he alone was responsible for all the pressure heaped on the team.

Lets face the facts here. 99% of the England fans: pretty negative. 99% of the media: pretty negative as well.

Still honestly have no clue where you're finding these magical England fans who thought we were going to get the Grand Slam even after we beat Italy. Its laughable, honestly.

Next you'll be saying we're tying virgins to railway tracks...NYAA AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA *twizzles moustache*

EDIT: I would KILL a man for a back row of Croft/Saul/Narraway.....Dan where are you?

 

[feicarsinn]

What about Chris Robshaw? He's a tidy operator.

 

[Rocket Singh]

He is good I believe he's injured right now but he has done well captaining Harlequins when he's been fit.

There are a lot of what Donald Rumsfeld would term "known unknowns" out there. Guys who have had either no caps at all or just a couple. The task should be to test these known unknowns when we go down under this summer.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 14 2010, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well, I was at the game yesterday and I enjoyed the view of the Edinburgh skyline as the Sun set. I enjoyed nothing else. Complete **** of a game.

It's already been said on this topic and several others so I don't really need to say much about the game, considering it's blatantly obvious where and why England are so poor - poor enough to not even look like scoring against a team that lost to Italy.

Wilkinson's floated miss-pass to a hooker/ touch judge, wasting a 4 on 2 overlap, just about sums up England's attacking capability. The only thing surprising about that play was the fact that a badly-thrown ball was going towards Dylan Hartley rather than out of his own hands.

Interesting move to bring on Foden - he certainly looked livelier than Armitage, even if he did get turned over once or twice.

Wishful thinking, hopeless optimism... and here is my team for the opening game of the 2012 6N, with Richard Cockerill in charge and (insert good coaches here) on the staff.

1. Mullan/ Corbisiero
2. Hartley/ Webber
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Gaskell/ Kennedy
6. Croft
7. Saull/ Rees if he ever gets fit again
8. Narraway/ Dowson
9. Youngs/ Care
10. Flood/ Alex Goode/ Cipriani with his head out of his arse.
11. Cato
12. Waldouck/ Turner-Hall/ Allen
13. Tait/ Waldouck
14. Ashton
15. Armitage/ Foden

These players are to be given time to play good rugby and no one who played with Martin Johnson is allowed to replace them if they're ****. The coach is to be given until after the 2015 world cup before its legally possible for him to quit. And Rob Andrew to be shot.[/b]

Would like to see Mallinder/Richards as head coach, with Edwards, Booth and Ashton for next year.

1. Sheridan/Golding
2. Hartley/Mears
3. Cole/Wilson
4. Kennedy/Attwood
5. Lawes
6. Croft/Haskell
7. Rees (if he gets back to his best)
8. ?? there really is no-one good enough. Dowson if anyone, I love Easter as a club player.

9. Youngs/Hodgson
10. Geraghty (best stand off on his day)/ Flood
11. Monye/Banahan/Simpson-Daniel
12. Barkley/Turner-Hall
13. Tait/Tindall
14. Ashton
15. Foden/Goode/Armitage

Now THAT is a team that could perform with a good coach.

 

[feicarsinn]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ali12 @ Mar 14 2010, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 14 2010, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I was at the game yesterday and I enjoyed the view of the Edinburgh skyline as the Sun set. I enjoyed nothing else. Complete **** of a game.

It's already been said on this topic and several others so I don't really need to say much about the game, considering it's blatantly obvious where and why England are so poor - poor enough to not even look like scoring against a team that lost to Italy.

Wilkinson's floated miss-pass to a hooker/ touch judge, wasting a 4 on 2 overlap, just about sums up England's attacking capability. The only thing surprising about that play was the fact that a badly-thrown ball was going towards Dylan Hartley rather than out of his own hands.

Interesting move to bring on Foden - he certainly looked livelier than Armitage, even if he did get turned over once or twice.

Wishful thinking, hopeless optimism... and here is my team for the opening game of the 2012 6N, with Richard Cockerill in charge and (insert good coaches here) on the staff.

1. Mullan/ Corbisiero
2. Hartley/ Webber
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Gaskell/ Kennedy
6. Croft
7. Saull/ Rees if he ever gets fit again
8. Narraway/ Dowson
9. Youngs/ Care
10. Flood/ Alex Goode/ Cipriani with his head out of his arse.
11. Cato
12. Waldouck/ Turner-Hall/ Allen
13. Tait/ Waldouck
14. Ashton
15. Armitage/ Foden

These players are to be given time to play good rugby and no one who played with Martin Johnson is allowed to replace them if they're ****. The coach is to be given until after the 2015 world cup before its legally possible for him to quit. And Rob Andrew to be shot.[/b]

Would like to see Mallinder/Richards as head coach, with Edwards, Booth and Ashton for next year.

1. Sheridan/Golding
2. Hartley/Mears
3. Cole/Wilson
4. Kennedy/Attwood
5. Lawes
6. Croft/Haskell
7. Rees (if he gets back to his best)
8. ?? there really is no-one good enough. Dowson if anyone, I love Easter as a club player.

9. Youngs/Hodgson
10. Geraghty (best stand off on his day)/ Flood
11. Monye/Banahan/Simpson-Daniel
12. Barkley/Turner-Hall
13. Tait/Tindall
14. Ashton
15. Foden/Goode/Armitage

Now THAT is a team that could perform with a good coach.
[/b][/quote]

Team? That's 27 players! Hardly settled. Also lol at Tindall, by royal appointment.