SANZAAR to cut 3 teams in 2018

[InsaneAsylum]

Would it really? I live in Melbourne and no one I talk to other than kiwis has any interest in rugby, it's fifth behind afl, cricket, league and football

Would it not be a better move to concentrate on the other areas where afl doesn't have quite the hold it does here and eventually mebournians might wonder what they're missing out on?

we should hang out more often then

Melbourne was without semi pro/pro rugby for years

In 2006, the ARC came about and the Rebels were drawing 3000 - 4000 people for their home games. It was the same year we lost the Super Rugby bid to the Force.

The ARC was then cancelled and we were again without semi pro/pro rugby until 2011

The rebels got 24000 people to their first game and from then on got around 14000 to games against kiwi teams, 12000 to games against other Aussie teams and 10000 to games against SA teams.

This has been the norm every year since 2011 up until this year. The strange thing is, if you look at NSW, QLD, ACT and WA, all their crowds have dropped dramatically too. Something has changed this year, and it's the expansion to 18 teams and the uneven 4 and 5 team conferences. SANZAAR messed this up!

The problem is not with Melbourne, it's with the whole of Australia, we also saw low crowd number with all 3 of the June Wallaby tests.

Cutting the Rebels will make NO difference. Fix the structure of Super Rugby, make it competitive again and the crowds will come back.

lose the Rebels and you close the shopfront to one of the biggest cities and sporting capital of the country. it'd be a dumb move by the ARU.

 

[mania]

I think this is bad new for New Zealand as if the rest of the South African teams follow in the future Super Rugby will die and there isn't enough money to keep the All Black players in New Zealand without South African TV money.

agree super can survive without aus, but we're screwed if SA leave

 

[TRF_heineken]

agree super can survive without aus, but we're screwed if SA leave

But SA won't leave. As long as we can used the All Blacks as a yardstick to better ourselves, we will remain true to our rival. This has been said in old threads countless times before, but South Africa will mostly use New Zealand as their measuring tool in order to see if we are up to standard or not. If we don't play against them regularly, then we won't know how good we are and where we can improve.

 

[Gregster]

The team that would surely benefit most from a move out of Super Rugby to the Pro 12 must be the Sunwolves, given that Japan will be playing at least three Northern Hemisphere countries in their 2019 World Cup group.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The team that would surely benefit most from a move out of Super Rugby to the Pro 12 must be the Sunwolves, given that Japan will be playing at least three Northern Hemisphere countries in their 2019 World Cup group.

There is no talk of the Japanese team joining the Pro12 or even that they will lose their spot in Super Rugby. Even though I think the Sunwolves shouldn't be in Super Rugby ahead of the Cheetahs...

 

[mania]

If we don't play against them regularly, then we won't know how good we are and where we can improve.

We use SA in the same way. If u can survive vs an SA side then your ready for international rugby.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

we should hang out more often then

Melbourne was without semi pro/pro rugby for years

In 2006, the ARC came about and the Rebels were drawing 3000 - 4000 people for their home games. It was the same year we lost the Super Rugby bid to the Force.

The ARC was then cancelled and we were again without semi pro/pro rugby until 2011

The rebels got 24000 people to their first game and from then on got around 14000 to games against kiwi teams, 12000 to games against other Aussie teams and 10000 to games against SA teams.

This has been the norm every year since 2011 up until this year. The strange thing is, if you look at NSW, QLD, ACT and WA, all their crowds have dropped dramatically too. Something has changed this year, and it's the expansion to 18 teams and the uneven 4 and 5 team conferences. SANZAAR messed this up!

The problem is not with Melbourne, it's with the whole of Australia, we also saw low crowd number with all 3 of the June Wallaby tests.

Cutting the Rebels will make NO difference. Fix the structure of Super Rugby, make it competitive again and the crowds will come back.

lose the Rebels and you close the shopfront to one of the biggest cities and sporting capital of the country. it'd be a dumb move by the ARU.

Great post, can't argue with any of it

Agree the structure is broke, Domyou thi knot would make a difference if the ARU simplified things slightly and adopted more of a football structure, by this I mean loose the franchises and just make the top five/four ARC teams your super rugby reps, means people only have to get behind one team

 

[welshglory]

But SA won't leave. As long as we can used the All Blacks as a yardstick to better ourselves, we will remain true to our rival. This has been said in old threads countless times before, but South Africa will mostly use New Zealand as their measuring tool in order to see if we are up to standard or not. If we don't play against them regularly, then we won't know how good we are and where we can improve.

Apart from the Lions recently have saffa team or even the Boks actually adjusted their style or methods to combat the kiwis? As far as I can see nothing has changed at any level with the same emphasis. South Africa actually seemed stronger in the isolation years tbh. Not having to deal with the travel and time zone shifts for half the year probably helps a lot.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Apart from the Lions recently have saffa team or even the Boks actually adjusted their style or methods to combat the kiwis? As far as I can see nothing has changed at any level with the same emphasis. South Africa actually seemed stronger in the isolation years tbh. Not having to deal with the travel and time zone shifts for half the year probably helps a lot.

Perhaps the change is not as clearly visible to an outsider not watching each game the SA teams play. But I can honestly say I can see a massive difference this past 2 years, and not just with the Lions, but across the board.

I think if you watched our SA u20 team in the JWC and the type tries we scored, you can see that at schoolboy level, the change is a massive one.

 

[Car]

I didn't get to watch the SA teams a lot this year and no Super Rugby at all last year, but I definitely saw an improvement in those games I saw.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

But SA won't leave. As long as we can used the All Blacks as a yardstick to better ourselves, we will remain true to our rival. This has been said in old threads countless times before, but South Africa will mostly use New Zealand as their measuring tool in order to see if we are up to standard or not. If we don't play against them regularly, then we won't know how good we are and where we can improve.

So you'd rather be stubborn than do what's best for your country's rugby.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

The team that would surely benefit most from a move out of Super Rugby to the Pro 12 must be the Sunwolves, given that Japan will be playing at least three Northern Hemisphere countries in their 2019 World Cup group.

Why the hell would they join the pro 12? Japan already has their own pro league that is very competitive and has produced a quality national team.
Sunwolves may have be a failure, not because of the league they play in, but having a national team as a club team doesn't work. Even more so when your best players don't wanna play for that club team.

 

[mania]

I think if you watched our SA u20 team in the JWC and the type tries we scored, you can see that at schoolboy level, the change is a massive one.

what is with that? i watched hPollard lead his u20's side thru NZ and man was i impressed with the skill level shown, yet it hasnt really appeared in super rugby. that babyBoks team were massively huge units with sublime hands and an understanding of their own roles and those of their team mates. it was poetry watching them.
it wasnt the first time ive been impressed by the babyBoks (and england) u20's.
whilst i agree the boks have to evolve, i hope they dont over do it and lose the brutal ownership of the contact area. boks are a measuring stick for NZ players.

 

[mania]

does anyone know which aus team is gonna get kicked out? ARU are really making a pigs breakfast outta this.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

not sure if there's any truth to this but it might make the decision easier for the ARU
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/super-rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=331&objectid=11890153

 

[mania]

not sure if there's any truth to this but it might make the decision easier for the ARU
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/super-rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=331&objectid=11890153

i wouldnt believe that article.
"The Sharks are not sold on the idea of reverting to round-robin play because they would be forced to travel to New Zealand and play some of those teams after avoiding that schedule this year."
that line where sharks dont want to face NZ sides goes against everything i have heard from other saffa's. they all want to play the NZ teams more if anything.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Why the hell would they join the pro 12? Japan already has their own pro league that is very competitive and has produced a quality national team.
Sunwolves may have be a failure, not because of the league they play in, but having a national team as a club team doesn't work. Even more so when your best players don't wanna play for that club team.

Also the SA teams are in the same time zone as the UK which makes it easier to organise and televise fixtures

 

[TRF_heineken]

So you'd rather be stubborn than do what's best for your country's rugby.

Is it best for our country to play against opposition we regularly beat as opposed to playing against a team we minimally beat? Next year we will have the best of both worlds, and then we will know what is best for our country. It's not about stubborness, it's about being the best. And we believe that our greatest rival is our best competition...

what is with that? i watched hPollard lead his u20's side thru NZ and man was i impressed with the skill level shown, yet it hasnt really appeared in super rugby. that babyBoks team were massively huge units with sublime hands and an understanding of their own roles and those of their team mates. it was poetry watching them.
it wasnt the first time ive been impressed by the babyBoks (and england) u20's.
whilst i agree the boks have to evolve, i hope they dont over do it and lose the brutal ownership of the contact area. boks are a measuring stick for NZ players.

Well Pollard, Jan Serfontein, Courtnall Skosan, Steven Kitshoff, Malcolm Marx and a few others have already made the step up to Super Rugby and the Springboks. But while these guys might look massive during the U20 tournament they are still small compared to older guys. And it takes a few seasons for these guys to make their mark in Super Rugby. Sure you get the odd player who excels from the start like Curwin Bosch and Handre Pollard, but that's partially due to the position they play and the lack of competition they might have in the senior sides.

2 years ago we had Jason Jenkins and RG Snyman playing for the U20's and only this year they've been impressive on a continuous basis for the Bulls, but they are still behind guys like Eben Etzebeth and Pieter-Steph Du Toit.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

But SA won't leave. As long as we can used the All Blacks as a yardstick to better ourselves, we will remain true to our rival. This has been said in old threads countless times before, but South Africa will mostly use New Zealand as their measuring tool in order to see if we are up to standard or not. If we don't play against them regularly, then we won't know how good we are and where we can improve.

Not to be contrary but I don't think that argument holds up anymore in SR since we are clearly unable to hold on to our players ad get player continuity from year to year. Its no coincidence that the Lions are the only SA able to compete as they are the only team without at least 5 newbies from year t year. Also no coincidence the Cheetahs' only entry into the playoffs came the year they managed to keep hold of their players from the previous year.

We need to acknowledge we need to buy into Europe because Europe is buying us whether we like it or not and its due to economic circumstances SARU has no control over. We can't measure our best against NZ opp if we can't field them and I am of the opinion the quality up North is right up there.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Not to be contrary but I don't think that argument holds up anymore in SR since we are clearly unable to hold on to our players ad get player continuity from year to year. Its no coincidence that the Lions are the only SA able to compete as they are the only team without at least 5 newbies from year t year. Also no coincidence the Cheetahs' only entry into the playoffs came the year they managed to keep hold of their players from the previous year.

We need to acknowledge we need to buy into Europe because Europe is buying us whether we like it or not and its due to economic circumstances SARU has no control over. We can't measure our best against NZ opp if we can't field them and I am of the opinion the quality up North is right up there.

Is there a salary cap in SR and is it as low as the Pro12? It may allow you to keep your players more easily?