Sam Simmonds... England Centre

[smithy0309]

Could anyone please take a little look at Sam Simmonds Highlight reels and pretend they are looking at a top class centre... Its really not hard to do !!!

 

[Geordie]

Ive called it years now...Sam Simmonds would make a fantastic 12.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Playing 12 would probably get him into the England side as a 15 or a 7...

He probably needs to move to RL for a while first though...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ive called it years now...Sam Simmonds would make a fantastic 12.

Yeah, but what are his bounce times like? That's all that matters.

 

[MikeTheNative]

He's no Johnny May test level flanker

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Warning: This post contains scenes of gross oversimplification.

I do wonder if, in the dead of night, Simmonds has thought about this.

I think Jones one big regret is that he hasn't had Manu available much. Whenever he's been around he's played even when some way short of full fitness.

And what does Manu bring? Fundamentally straight line running and the power to get over the gain line and tie in defenders. No kicking game to speak of, reasonable offloading but not great passing, not exceptionally quick and not got the best rugby brain for executing overlaps etc. Strong in the tackle but prone to getting out of line.

Simmonds is a little lighter but not much, probably has better acceleration and top end speed and has a great leg drive and body angles that enable him to make ground in heavy traffic. Pretty smart, runs decent angles and is comfortable in open spaces. Plus will be pretty useful in defence and at the breakdown. If nothing else coming from Chiefs he'd be disciplined in holding defensive alignment.

With the ball playing Slade at 13 there's space for a crash dummy at 12.

Told you it was a gross oversimplification. But I reckon he could learn the position well enough by the next RWC - big snag, I doubt Chiefs would want him to, but there's a stronger case for this than Earl on the wing.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

IDK.
When I watch his highlights the tries he scores in the backs tend to be more when he eithers pops up on the wing or comes through on a surprise ball.

If he was to play centres he would have a dedicated defenders permanently on him, you can't really do that when he's at 8.
I think he's a excellent runner, but he's not in the same league as Manu it's like everyone saying OL is the next Manu but in reality he will never be Manu, on his best day he is literally unplayable. Tigers and England have suffered because they didn't and couldn't setup a plan without him and trying to slot in poor imitations really doesn't work.

 

[higgik]

Seen this highlight reel.
He could easily be a centre, although not at Exeter, as they have lots of this type.

 

[Geordie]

Warning: This post contains scenes of gross oversimplification.

I do wonder if, in the dead of night, Simmonds has thought about this.

I think Jones one big regret is that he hasn't had Manu available much. Whenever he's been around he's played even when some way short of full fitness.

And what does Manu bring? Fundamentally straight line running and the power to get over the gain line and tie in defenders. No kicking game to speak of, reasonable offloading but not great passing, not exceptionally quick and not got the best rugby brain for executing overlaps etc. Strong in the tackle but prone to getting out of line.

Simmonds is a little lighter but not much, probably has better acceleration and top end speed and has a great leg drive and body angles that enable him to make ground in heavy traffic. Pretty smart, runs decent angles and is comfortable in open spaces. Plus will be pretty useful in defence and at the breakdown. If nothing else coming from Chiefs he'd be disciplined in holding defensive alignment.

With the ball playing Slade at 13 there's space for a crash dummy at 12.

Told you it was a gross oversimplification. But I reckon he could learn the position well enough by the next RWC - big snag, I doubt Chiefs would want him to, but there's a stronger case for this than Earl on the wing.

And then the next big heavy duty carrier Cockasaniga , who was starting to show up nicely for England, then got a long term injury. And hasnt been available since.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I'm really not convinced that Ollie Lawrence is or should be considered as a direct replacement for Manu Tuilagi. Lawrence has far more skills than being 'just' a crash ball centre, he really is capable of running directly and stepping his way past players.

Alarmingly, he receives quicker ball at Warriors than he has for England.

Expecting him to be a pound shop Tuilagi is a mistake which is being made from the top down. If we want to see him play for England, England have got to subtly change the way they play to suit him. Quicker front foot ball and flat passes in front of the man would be a great start, it's not as if it would take anything very complicated, but having support if Lawrence were to make a break would help too.

The current Loop Loop Crash (c) tactic is both tedious to watch and unsuited to the players available.

 

[higgik]

I'm really not convinced that Ollie Lawrence is or should be considered as a direct replacement for Manu Tuilagi. Lawrence has far more skills than being 'just' a crash ball centre, he really is capable of running directly and stepping his way past players.

Alarmingly, he receives quicker ball at Warriors than he has for England.

Expecting him to be a pound shop Tuilagi is a mistake which is being made from the top down. If we want to see him play for England, England have got to subtly change the way they play to suit him. Quicker front foot ball and flat passes in front of the man would be a great start, it's not as if it would take anything very complicated, but having support if Lawrence were to make a break would help too.

The current Loop Loop Crash (c) tactic is both tedious to watch and unsuited to the players available.

Correct.
Devoto is also one that got away, along with Redpath

 

[Crash Hamster]

(FWIW, I'm not suggesting that Tuilagi doesn't have other skills, but he's so effective at the crash ball that it's all he seemed to get to do. I felt Jonah Lomu ended up like that too; he could do other things, but became a crash ball merchant later in his career, which made him less effective as the opposition knew what was coming. I'm aware that knowing what's coming is different from being able to effectively defend against it, but it is easier.)

 

[Geordie]

Correct.
Devoto is also one that got away, along with Redpath

I'd like see see Devoto go on the summer tour if its on. I think he's devloped into an excellent 12 who can do the hard yards, but has good hands...

 

[higgik]

I'd like see see Devoto go on the summer tour if its on. I think he's devloped into an excellent 12 who can do the hard yards, but has good hands...

Totally agree, he would be great, with either Slade, Marchant or Lawrence alongside, depending on who played 15.
Option 1
10 Simmonds or Smith
12 Devoto
13 Slade or Marchant
15 Steward

Option 2
10 Simmonds or Smith
12 Devoto
13 Lawrence
15 Malins

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Tigs is right that Manu's a one off and we shouldn't try to replicate exactly what he does.

But we still do need someone who can get us on the front foot from the midfield. Devoto and Lawrence are the obvious choices, but they're not going to do it by pure brute force although neither are small units.

 

[Geordie]

Is Cockasaniga struggling for form at the moment..? He's the obvious choice for power bringing him in off the wing.

Will be interesting to see if he tours

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Is Cockasaniga struggling for form at the moment..? He's the obvious choice for power bringing him in off the wing.

Will be interesting to see if he tours

If you only looked at his current form and nothing prior to his injury, he wouldn't deserve a spot.

 

[Crash Hamster]

It's ok, you can play for England with no club games whatsoever...

 

[Which Tyler]

Is Cockasaniga struggling for form at the moment..? He's the obvious choice for power bringing him in off the wing.

Will be interesting to see if he tours

He's been struggling off-field; which has translated to on-field since his injury.
He's got the class, and the credit in the bank (albeit not a huge amount); but it looks like his off-field issues have resolved, so here's hoping that so does his form.

As for the "no club games whatsoever" he's 9 from 14 this year - despite injury, form and strong competition for places

 

[Crash Hamster]

He's been struggling off-field; which has translated to on-field since his injury.
He's got the class, and the credit in the bank (albeit not a huge amount); but it looks like his off-field issues have resolved, so here's hoping that so does his form.

As for the "no club games whatsoever" he's 9 from 14 this year - despite injury, form and strong competition for places

I wasn't referring to Big Joe...