SA vs Wales (June 2022 series)

[MikeTheNative]

Yeah it is. They did ride their luck at times during that 6 nations win and I was positive after that Wales would kick on from there and improve. However they have just got backwards since in terms of performances and results.
Disappointed to hear that Wales are 'hopeful' that Francis might make the 3rd test (https://bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62024871)
Despite depth at tighthead being poor at the moment, IMO Francis should be sent home after that, he was well out.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Real shame for Leon Brown missing out on this tour.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Just checking this is the same Pivac who has won the 6N more recently than England, Scotland and Ireland? 16 months is a long time!

It is. I see that now as we won in spite of Pivac not because of anything he did. The players cracked on and built momentum from the opening day when 14 man ireland almost beat us at home.

He got the job off the back of one good season with the Scarlets. Don't get me wrong, he was probably the right man for the job at the time but it's clear as day he's not working out now. I wouldn't be surprised if at least half the squad are just going through the motions with him and have tuned out and that's being kind.

I wouldn't even be so keen to get rid of him if Robertson wasn't potentially available as there aren't an abundance of elite coaches available and Pivac isn't a terrible coach by any means and it's not all his fault obviously but we've reached the end of the road with him imo. Thanks for 2020 though.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah it is. They did ride their luck at times during that 6 nations win and I was positive after that Wales would kick on from there and improve. However they have just got backwards since in terms of performances and results.
Disappointed to hear that Wales are 'hopeful' that Francis might make the 3rd test (https://bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62024871)
Despite depth at tighthead being poor at the moment, IMO Francis should be sent home after that, he was well out.

Agreed. I know Brown is out and he would've gone on tour had he not been injured but what about WillGriff John? He's meant to be a decent scrummager (or at least seems more in the old school mould of scums being bread and butter for him) but chose to take this Wainwright and even the young Scarlet kid ahead of him. Odd if you ask me

 

[MikeTheNative]

WGJ is a weird one, seemed like a contender to be fighting for tight head spot but has barley featured since his move to Wales, that's including at regional level as well.

 

[Welsh Exile]

WGJ is a weird one, seemed like a contender to be fighting for tight head spot but has barley featured since his move to Wales, that's including at regional level as well.

Yeah he's been a bit unlucky with injuries. I'm not losing any sleep over him not going just that I probably would've wanted to have a look at how our scum held up against the best scrummaging team in the world with him at TH

Such a wasted opportunity for Brown, though. I really rate Leon but there is still a ? around his scrummaging and this tour would've been a great test. We know he's a good modern day prop who gets around the park and has nice hands and feet but really needed to test him at this level in the scrum. Oh well.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Brown is simply injured too much. Physically has the right attributes but you don't improve as a player if you spend most of the time on the side-lines.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Brown is simply injured too much. Physically has the right attributes but you don't improve as a player if you spend most of the time on the side-lines.

Yeah, seems a common theme for a few of our players. Thought the same about Johnny Williams when he first came on the scene but he's always injured (I know he's on tour at the moment but reckon he'll pick up another knock soon knowing him)

Hopefully Brown can put this last injury behind him and put his best foot forward ready for the autumn internationals but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Just checking this is the same Pivac who has won the 6N more recently than England, Scotland and Ireland? 16 months is a long time!

Flukiest 6N win ever, helped by loads of red cards and, in the case of the England match, some rather dodgy refereeing.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Won't be so near next week but at least Pivac can go back to the WRU with "we almost drew one game out there"

Don't Wales usually improve the longer they're together?

 

[HamJan]

Don't Wales usually improve the longer they're together?

yeah, but unfortunately so do the Boks

 

[Eleutherarch]

Won't be so near next week but at least Pivac can go back to the WRU with "we almost drew one game out there"

What's the Welsh depth like in general? And what aspects of current Welsh style would you like to see revamped? Wales are pretty accomplished at neutering the strengths of other teams and turning it into a difficult encounter. However, this is sometimes offset by some ill-discipline and some stodgy attack. Some tweaks needed.

I'd like to see Nienaber gone but that ain't happenening.

(PS, I can't like Biggar. Sorry)

 

[ChicagoKid]

Did some posts get deleted?

 

[Eleutherarch]

Did some posts get deleted?

They've switched server but had to revert to a back-up from Wednesday.

 

[MikeTheNative]

What's the Welsh depth like in general? And what aspects of current Welsh style would you like to see revamped? Wales are pretty accomplished at neutering the strengths of other teams and turning it into a difficult encounter. However, this is sometimes offset by some ill-discipline and some stodgy attack. Some tweaks needed.

I'd like to see Nienaber gone but that ain't happenening.

(PS, I can't like Biggar. Sorry)

It's varies massively in positions. Wales seem to have loads of decent 7s but then struggle with 6s and especially 8. Hooker seems to be getting better after Elias has stepped up his game and Lake looks handy. Props seem to be a struggle, can't seem to find players that are both decent around the park and scrummaging. Most seem to be only decent at one. 2nd rows is a weakness, 9s and 10s i think is fine. Centres not great (but there is some talent there). Wing is decent enough but FB maybe not so much.

 

[Welsh Exile]

What's the Welsh depth like in general? And what aspects of current Welsh style would you like to see revamped? Wales are pretty accomplished at neutering the strengths of other teams and turning it into a difficult encounter. However, this is sometimes offset by some ill-discipline and some stodgy attack. Some tweaks needed.

I'd like to see Nienaber gone but that ain't happenening.

(PS, I can't like Biggar. Sorry)

Front 5 depth isn't great but I genuinely think depth elsewhere is fine/good.

Discipline has been more of a recent thing and that needs looking at as typically it's not to bad.

Pivac has essentially compromised his rugby philosophy. So much was made, by him even, about changing the way we play to a more attack minded, possession based, offloading, try scoring team that thrives on counter attacks. Now we look like we can't even build any kind of phase in attack. We cant even pick and go and go round the corner. Look at that game just gone. Our first try was a nice try to be fair tjst we engineered well but even that was out by your 10 meter line. Then our second try was a fluke from a lineout **** up and the third a simple catch and drive from a lineout. I don't think there was any time in that game we have you under the kosh in your 22 for any sustained period. It is like he's sacked it all off as he needed results and thought I'm best off reverting back to boring anti rugby that negates teams more in the hope we keep it right and win games. I have no problem if we win games like this but it's not at present.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I want to see Anscombe given a start. He might have that extra bit of creativity with both ball in hand and playmaking ability that might help kick start Wales' attack.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Front 5 depth isn't great but I genuinely think depth elsewhere is fine/good.

Discipline has been more of a recent thing and that needs looking at as typically it's not to bad.

Pivac has essentially compromised his rugby philosophy. So much was made, by him even, about changing the way we play to a more attack minded, possession based, offloading, try scoring team that thrives on counter attacks. Now we look like we can't even build any kind of phase in attack. We cant even pick and go and go round the corner. Look at that game just gone. Our first try was a nice try to be fair tjst we engineered well but even that was out by your 10 meter line. Then our second try was a fluke from a lineout **** up and the third a simple catch and drive from a lineout. I don't think there was any time in that game we have you under the kosh in your 22 for any sustained period. It is like he's sacked it all off as he needed results and thought I'm best off reverting back to boring anti rugby that negates teams more in the hope we keep it right and win games. I have no problem if we win games like this but it's not at present.

A genuine question for people who understand rugby better: How much of the club game can be transferred to internationals especially on attack? Here in the States, there are many players and systems that thrive on the college level but simply do not work in the NFL. From my novice vantage point, it's the same in rugby. International teams are bigger, faster and more physical on defense, which limits space & opportunities that are more common in club. Just my 2 cents and I could be persuaded.

 

[Welsh Exile]

It's just the whole mindset he seems to have installed in the team as well. We've got a lot of really good players but it saddens me hearing fierce competitors like Biggar saying "we have never won a game in SA so winning the series is to much to ask but hopefully we can write history and win one" or something like that. I mean, would any of our players even dream of saying that under Gats and Edwards? I doubt it. It would be "we are here to win the series, we believe in ourselves" But all you hear from Pivac is negativity, we've got injuries, this team is really physical, we're away from home, we've never won in SA before. Mr motivator.

 

[Welsh Exile]

A genuine question for people who understand rugby better: How much of the club game can be transferred to internationals especially on attack? Here in the States, there are many players and systems that thrive on the college level but simply do not work in the NFL. From my novice vantage point, it's the same in rugby. International teams are bigger, faster and more physical on defense, which limits space & opportunities that are more common in club. Just my 2 cents and I could be persuaded.

Yeah I think you're right and that probably goes for most sports (except football where international standard is far inferior to club)

I think Pivac himself even mentioned this recently and how hard it is to transfer players up from club/regional level to International.

There's a lot wrong with Welsh rugby for sure, but boiling it down to its roots, coz I'm an idiot, I ask myself, do we have good rugby players, or at least good enough to be performing a lot better than they are? Yes. Do we lack depth in certain areas? Most definitely but these things are swings in roundabouts. We're weak in the row at the moment but we have 3 good young locks coming through that might turn out to be top class players for us in 4-5 years and then we might be well stocked there but then not so much at 9 or some other position we're ok in at present.

Can we attack a lot better than we are even given the fact the regions are **** I think we can if you look at the players.