SA franchises in 2013

[TRF_stormer2010]

No, I mean at 15... WP and the Stormers love to use the race-card. and i fear that Taute will become a victim of this. between Gio Aplon and JDJ, Taute will be between a rock and a hard place... I think Taute is holding thumbs that Elton also joins the Stormers so that he will be allowed to play more games...

Nah, Aplon is only playing at 15 for us now in the CC because Pietersen is injured. He is limited at 15 but a fantastic 14. AC isn't a tool. When he plays Deon Fourie at flank etc etc it's because he has to. The only way Taute isn't gonna be at 15 is if he is injured or if JdJ, JdV, Brache and Howard are al injured.

Without injury expect the Stormers backline line-up to read

9 Duvenhage (not my personal preference but what I expect)
10 Jantjies
11 Habana
12 JdV
13 JdJ
14 Appels
15 Taute

20 Groom/Shreuder
21 Grant (covering 10 and the centers)
22 Pietersen (covering 15 and 10 at a pinch)

 

[Icemn]

No, I mean at 15... WP and the Stormers love to use the race-card. and i fear that Taute will become a victim of this. between Gio Aplon and JDJ, Taute will be between a rock and a hard place... I think Taute is holding thumbs that Elton also joins the Stormers so that he will be allowed to play more games...

why can't Aplon move to 14 and banana on 11, or Aplon on 11 and Banana on 14...Taute at 15...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

why can't Aplon move to 14 and banana on 11, or Aplon on 11 and Banana on 14...Taute at 15...

That's be best, ja. Pietersen to bench it with Van den Heever, Brache etc injury back-up. Our most dangerous back 3 would be a combo of Habana, Appels and Taute.

 

[Icemn]

That's be best, ja. Pietersen to bench it with Van den Heever, Brache etc injury back-up. Our most dangerous back 3 would be a combo of Habana, Appels and Taute.

ya but i have a huge issue with JDV, i think there is a problem at 12 for the stormers... i don't know if Fourie made him look good all the time :?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

ya but i have a huge issue with JDV, i think there is a problem at 12 for the stormers... i don't know if Fourie made him look good all the time :?

I also have a few reservations with DD and JdV at 9 and 12. On one hand I think it might be good to have their calming influence and leadership especially on both sides of playmaker Jantjies (if he does come here). On the other hand they might hold back what can be a very exciting backline and in JdJ, Habana and Aplon we aren't short on experience in the backs.

What we need is a solid center but in a playmaker role much like Conrad Smith which neither JdV or JdJ is and I prefer JdJ ATM. At 9 we need someone who can dart now and again around the fringes to keep defenses honest and allow our backs that little extra time/space and arrives at the breakdown superfast to clear or take on the fringes with a dart as mentioned which DD isn't. He is more of an organiser while i trust Jantjies to take that role and would rather we had another playmaker at 12 or 13.

Groom is coming through as our best bet at 9. At the centers I'm hoping Brache or Howard can get a chance to show what they can do with the team at full strength rather than a patch-work WP Currie cup side as they've done up to now.

 

[Draggs]

Poor van den Heever. Very talented young player, just moved to the wrong club. Would be an excellent signing for the Kings (who wouldn't?)
If Jantjies goes to the Stormers, would Grant at inside centre be considered? (not that they would drop de Villiers, I suppose)

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Poor van den Heever. Very talented young player, just moved to the wrong club. Would be an excellent signing for the Kings (who wouldn't?)
If Jantjies goes to the Stormers, would Grant at inside centre be considered? (not that they would drop de Villiers, I suppose)

I've toyed with the idea of Grant at 12 as well. Much like I've done with Lambie for the Bokke. I don't think AC would place two of his flyhalves at risk in one game though LOL, not after 2011.

Van den Heever had his chances with us but I don't think his game suits ours. He needs a bit of space. I think he would have found a welcome home at the Cheetahs.

 

[Draggs]

I've toyed with the idea of Grant at 12 as well. Much like I've done with Lambie for the Bokke. I don't think AC would place two of his flyhalves at risk in one game though LOL, not after 2011.

Van den Heever had his chances with us but I don't think his game suits ours. He needs a bit of space. I think he would have found a welcome home at the Cheetahs.

Well, if you play Grant or whomever else at loose-forward, then you will have an issue.
Last year I'd have happily taken van den Heever in Durban, but with Ludik in great form and Viljoen/Mvovo likely to be involved, I don't know where he could fit. Ndungane has life left in those old legs, I can see. Lindique has looked good on the wing for U21s, so we are set out wide.

Grant would offer relief for your outside half, and probably play more expansively than de Villiers (passing rather than running into defenders).
Grant was kicking near 90%, could have done with him for the Boks!

 

[TRF_heineken]

I've toyed with the idea of Grant at 12 as well. Much like I've done with Lambie for the Bokke. I don't think AC would place two of his flyhalves at risk in one game though LOL, not after 2011.

Van den Heever had his chances with us but I don't think his game suits ours. He needs a bit of space. I think he would have found a welcome home at the Cheetahs.

You know, that last sentence, makes no sense whatsoever as WP has always been the team who create as much space as possible for their wingers... Why he left the Bulls, I never did understand, as we are all of a sudden giving the ball more air in passing. But I do agree that he would now best be suited at the Cheetahs, but I doubt they'll pick him ahead of Willie Le Roux and Raymond Rhule

 

[Draggs]

You know, that last sentence, makes no sense whatsoever as WP has always been the team who create as much space as possible for their wingers... Why he left the Bulls, I never did understand, as we are all of a sudden giving the ball more air in passing. But I do agree that he would now best be suited at the Cheetahs, but I doubt they'll pick him ahead of Willie Le Roux and Raymond Rhule

Rhule on the wing (some considering him an outside centre) or le Roux at fullback opens a hole for van den Heever. I am not a particular fan of Hennie Daniller as well.
If van den Heever went to the Sharks in 2011, then he could have had a crack somewhere in the backline (him on the wing if JP played OC, or perhaps at OC himself).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Been a bit slow lately and I just thought it might be nice to look at the squads for next year as things stand.

Stormers
Props:
Pat Cilliers
Steven Kitshoff
Frans Malherbe
Deon Carstens
Brok Harris

Hookers:
Tiaan Liebenberg
Deon Fourie
Siyabonga Ntubeni

Locks:
Andries Bekker
Eben Etzebeth
Rynhardt Elstadt
De Kock Steenkamp
Ruan Botha

Loose forwards:
Schalk Burger (c)
Duane Vermeulen
Siya Kolisi
Nick Koster
Nizaam Carr
Don Armand
Michael Rhodes

Scrummies:
Dewaldt Duvenhage
Nic Groom
Louis Schreuder

Fly halves:
(Elton Jantjies)
Peter Grant
Gary van Aswegen

Centers:
Jean de Villiers (vc)
Juan de Jongh
Marcel Brache
Pat Howard
JP du Plessis

Wings:
Bryan Habana
Gio Aplon
Gerhard van den Heever

Fullbacks:
Jaco Taute
Joe Pietersen

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Our young pack have grown in stature in leaps and bounds over the last two seasons and with the signing of Pat Cilliers to fill that tighthead spot we've always struggled with the pack looks with decent back-up right throughout the forwards something to feel confident about. The only place we might struggle is at the breakdown through a lack of a fetcher but with Vermeulen and Deon Fourie there we should be able to compete for opposition ball while Etzebeth and Vermeulen don't allow opposition to contest our own. Still, calling back Francois Louw would give this Stormers supporter some reassurance.

We still have solid centers with dangerous outbacks, even more so with the loan of Jaco Taute who'll play at his prefered position at fullback. The question is and has been for the last few seasons; can we set these guys free? It's not a simple question to answer with a few factors to consider; with our big strength being our defense does this effect our mindset when we get the chance to attack? Does the problem lie completely with a combo of players from 9 to 12 that hardly get those outside of them quality ball? My personal opinion is that it's probably a combination of factors and I'm hoping the likely inclusion of Jantjies at 10 will bring the Stormers a boost in someone who is a genuine play maker. I also hope that if Jantjies comes in at 10 that we see Nic Groom at 9 just for that tiny extra bit of pace on the ball.

 

[Icemn]

I also have a few reservations with DD and JdV at 9 and 12. On one hand I think it might be good to have their calming influence and leadership especially on both sides of playmaker Jantjies (if he does come here). On the other hand they might hold back what can be a very exciting backline and in JdJ, Habana and Aplon we aren't short on experience in the backs.

What we need is a solid center but in a playmaker role much like Conrad Smith which neither JdV or JdJ is and I prefer JdJ ATM. At 9 we need someone who can dart now and again around the fringes to keep defenses honest and allow our backs that little extra time/space and arrives at the breakdown superfast to clear or take on the fringes with a dart as mentioned which DD isn't. He is more of an organiser while i trust Jantjies to take that role and would rather we had another playmaker at 12 or 13.

Groom is coming through as our best bet at 9. At the centers I'm hoping Brache or Howard can get a chance to show what they can do with the team at full strength rather than a patch-work WP Currie cup side as they've done up to now.

why oh why did you guys let Sadie slip... JJ was also at WP right :?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Whitehead is the one we should have held on to. Apart from Jaque Fourie here are some young backs the Stormers could've/should've held onto but couldn't all within the space of about a year;

Whitehead (center)(Sharks)
Engelbrecht (wing, center)(Bulls)
Pollard (10)(Bulls)
Sadie (center)(Bulls)
Poolman (wing)(Connaught?)
Cronje (10,15)(Bulls)
Hoffman (9,10,15)(Sharks)
Catrakilis (10)(Kings)
Paul Bosch (center)(somewhere in France)
Dylan des Fountain (center,wing)(?)

They will go where they will go I suppose and I wouldn't drop one of Habana or Aplon. I also think Taute coming in makes up for the 15's we've lost. We should have looked at options other than sticking to JdV and Grant out of a sense of loyalty though IMO. And looked for a world class 9; we had one in the academy in the form of Hougie.

That said if we can lure Jantjies, JdV gets some form.. and we get Groom at 9 then it could go well. Juan de Jongh at 13 with some space and a back three of Habana, Aplon and Taute... Pat Howard and Brache are ones to watch out for so while we lose classy players we do have some still up our sleeve.

 

[Icemn]

Whitehead is the one we should have held on to. Apart from Jaque Fourie here are some young backs the Stormers could've/should've held onto but couldn't all within the space of about a year;

Whitehead (center)(Sharks)
Engelbrecht (wing, center)(Bulls)
Pollard (10)(Bulls)
Sadie (center)(Bulls)
Poolman (wing)(Connaught?)
Cronje (10,15)(Bulls)
Hoffman (9,10,15)(Sharks)
Catrakilis (10)(Kings)
Paul Bosch (center)(somewhere in France)
Dylan des Fountain (center,wing)(?)

They will go where they will go I suppose and I wouldn't drop one of Habana or Aplon. I also think Taute coming in makes up for the 15's we've lost. We should have looked at options other than sticking to JdV and Grant out of a sense of loyalty though IMO. And looked for a world class 9; we had one in the academy in the form of Hougie.

That said if we can lure Jantjies, JdV gets some form.. and we get Groom at 9 then it could go well. Juan de Jongh at 13 with some space and a back three of Habana, Aplon and Taute... Pat Howard and Brache are ones to watch out for so while we lose classy players we do have some still up our sleeve.

eish... can i list my hurricane players here that left ... then you wont feel so depressed :buddies:

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

eish... can i list my hurricane players here that left ... then you wont feel so depressed :buddies:

Whatever happened to you supporting the WP/Stormers from now on? We could have some fun taking turns at the Sharks and Bulls supporters; particularly Heineken (I've already copied some of your posts with him in mind LOL).

 

[Icemn]

Whatever happened to you supporting the WP/Stormers from now on? We could have some fun taking turns at the Sharks and Bulls supporters; particularly Heineken (I've already copied some of your posts with him in mind LOL).

i support them already as well as the springboks, if give players their due its jsut that there are more negatives that put me off... like player selections, politics, crap tactics & gamplans etc, I think Jantjies is def coming to cape town...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

i support them already as well as the springboks, if give players their due its jsut that there are more negatives that put me off... like player selections, politics, crap tactics & gamplans etc, I think Jantjies is def coming to cape town...

I hear ya and I can't see another option than Jantjies coming home. At the Sharks he'll be up against Lambie for sure; I can't see Lambie anywhere other than 10 with F Steyn and Ludik there. Kings? Why would Catrakilis have left then? Lets just put it this way; there's a bottle of whisky in my liquor cabinet that's gonna get murdered if Jantjies ends up anywhere other than WP.

 

[Icemn]

I hear ya and I can't see another option than Jantjies coming home. At the Sharks he'll be up against Lambie for sure; I can't see Lambie anywhere other than 10 with F Steyn and Ludik there. Kings? Why would Catrakilis have left then? Lets just put it this way; there's a bottle of whisky in my liquor cabinet that's gonna get murdered if Jantjies ends up anywhere other than WP.

its better for SA if the better players all get to start for their respective clubs, instead of them sitting bench for just playing at a better team... that is why i was happy when hore/Gear/nonu/weepu all left.. meaning they can all start for their new clubs, while coles/savea/Tim Bateman/paranara all get to start for the Canes. so they have a n oppertunity to get better and actaully play... win win for the country, when looking at the bigger picture... something SA can maybe look at... and what kak is this relagation :? i don't think it does any good for SA rugby... lol only whiskey try breakfluid and coke.... its help when i'm depressed, whiskey is tooo light my friend

 

[Draggs]

I'll have a go for us:
Included some that will probably play Vodacom Cup, but might see S15 time
Props:
Dale Chadwick
Allan Dell
Jannie du Plessis
Wiehahn Herbst
Tendai Mtawarira

Hooker:
Craig Burden
Kyle CooperBismarck du Plessis
Monde Hadebe

Second Row:
Anton Bresler
Pieter-Steph du Toit
Jan Andre Marais
Peet Marais
Franco van der Merwe

Back Row:
Willem Alberts
Jacques Botes
Chris Cloete
Marcell Coetzee
Keegan Daniel
Jean Deysel
Ryan Kankowski
Francois Kleinhans
Brynard Stander
Lubabalo Mtembu

Scrum Half:
Conrad Hoffmann (where his he?)
Charl McLeod
Cobus Reinach

Stand Off:
Meyer Bosman
Patrick Lambie
Fred Zeilinga

Centre:
Paul Jordaan
Francois Steyn
Tim Whitehead
Heimar Williams

Wing:
Piet Lindique
Wandile Mjekevu
Lwazi Mvovo
Odwa Ndungane
JP Pietersen
Rosco Speckman

Fullback:
Louis Ludik
Gouws Prinsloo
Riaan Viljoen