S Armitage looking for England club and country

[Ragey Erasmus]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...ngland-recall-telling-Toulon-wants-leave.html

Steffon Armitage targets return to Premiership and potential England recall after telling Toulon he wants to leave

Interesting to say the least and no doubt he could be a good 7 for us but personally I don't like the guy, he stuck 2 fingers to England and English clubs to chance the money in France. His choice but this seems like little more than glory seeking rather than a genuine desire to play for England. Went to France glory seeking and now English clubs are competing, want to find more in an improved England national team. Personally I don't care too much if he gets into an English club but would really hope we can get Underhill through at 7 fast rather than plop that big lump there instead.

 

[ncurd]

Prefer him to Hughes

I wonder how much of this is Eddie saying he has a real shot England which he felt he didn't have under Lancaster.

 

[Peat]

I wonder how much of this is Eddie saying he has a real shot England which he felt he didn't have under Lancaster.

That there is the million pound question. If one manager is telling him he's not got a shot and the other isn't, it's not hugely surprising that he acts different...

edit: Also, if he can reproduce his best Toulon form at international level, then I suspect any of us that dislike him will have to get over it.

 

[Aristodemus]

I hope he stays in France, don't want him or his brother anywhere near an England shirt.

 

[Every Time Ref]

That there is the million pound question. If one manager is telling him he's not got a shot and the other isn't, it's not hugely surprising that he acts different...

edit: Also, if he can reproduce his best Toulon form at international level, then I suspect any of us that dislike him will have to get over it.

Would love to see it. If the England pack dominates all comers like the Toulon pack has in the past, then I'm sure he can...!

If he does come back to England now and starts challenging for international honours, it probably does say a lot about how Lancaster handled him. Be pleased to see him in the running, not looking forward to the hype train hitting Burgess-esque levels levels of overexcitement in the run up to his England selection, nor the spectacular crash if he doesn't set the world on fire immediately.

If he is crossing the channel, Bath must be in the running? Not sure how I feel about that.

 

[Tony Manx]

I hope he stays in France, don't want him or his brother anywhere near an England shirt.

Posh! If he comes back and is as strong as he was, and am not sure he is, then he should be straight in the squad.

His brother, on the other hand, should stay where he is as he should not come back to England ever never mind represent it.

 

[Peat]

Wasps is the name that's been mentioned most but Bath have come up before and I'm sure they might sniff at it.

 

[Every Time Ref]

We're losing significantly more players than we're gaining as far as I can see, from an already too small squad. Anyone who's available (and outside the inconvenience of the salary cap) will be looked at I imagine. Especially given Permatan's love of a Big Name.

Will he come to a club in crisis without a head coach though? Wasps must look a much better option from his perspective. Brucie might be better able to come up with the right price though!

 

[Raggs]

Club in crisis and not on the champions cup. Steffon won't have long to stake a claim and it'd be tough to do in the challenge cup.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wasps currently googling "dodgy accountancy firms in the East Midlands".

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Wasps currently googling "dodgy accountancy firms in the East Midlands".

Tigers can point them in the right direction, if not sarries will help.

 

[nickdnz]

So not that it's probably super relevant to anything...

But if we assume England is building towards something, does it make sense to select a guy who will be 34 years old in the next World Cup?

Like if there was a time to include Armitage (which for the record I agree with England's policy to not select overseas based players) - it seems to me it was while he was in his prime in the last World Cup. Underhill will be 23 during the next World Cup (so may be a bit early) while Kvesic will be 28.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So not that it's probably super relevant to anything...

But if we assume England is building towards something, does it make sense to select a guy who will be 34 years old in the next World Cup?

Like if there was a time to include Armitage (which for the record I agree with England's policy to not select overseas based players) - it seems to me it was while he was in his prime in the last World Cup. Underhill will be 23 during the next World Cup (so may be a bit early) while Kvesic will be 28.

Possibly a 1-2 season placeholder if they can't come to an agreement on Underhill?
Haskell is useless at international level and for whatever reason Kvesic and Fraser aren't being considered. Playing with a 7 who knows what a breakdown is would mean Underhill could slot in easier.

Don't think that's the reason, though, and I'm not sure that he's looking to move because EJ has said he'll be in the squad if he does (though I'm sure he's spoken to EJ who said he'll be in consideration if he's back in country).
Steffon has young kids and it wouldn't totally surprise me if he wanted to raise them in England, especially as his family (bar Delon and his wife/kids) are all based in England.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Eddie's project is 2019. On age grounds alone it's highly unlikely Armitage would be a key part of that. And let's face it he didn't tear up any trees when he wore the red rose before.

I'm sure he would be a good addition for many clubs for a couple of years, but internationally I'd hope his ship has sailed.

 

[nickdnz]

Possibly a 1-2 season placeholder if they can't come to an agreement on Underhill?
Haskell is useless at international level and for whatever reason Kvesic and Fraser aren't being considered. Playing with a 7 who knows what a breakdown is would mean Underhill could slot in easier.

But that's sort of my point. Can England afford to have someone in the squad who is going to be a 'placeholder' for half of a rebuilding cycle? And you know that in three years time, the question will be asked "well do we go with the young prospect with only 2 years out of the World Cup, or do we stick with experience?".

I see it from both points of view; it's best to build a squad which is designed around winning games year in and year out. But I think England have so often been in the trap of sticking with make-shift solutions for far longer than any other international team.

 

[Maverick1987]

But that's sort of my point. Can England afford to have someone in the squad who is going to be a 'placeholder' for half of a rebuilding cycle? And you know that in three years time, the question will be asked "well do we go with the young prospect with only 2 years out of the World Cup, or do we stick with experience?".

I see it from both points of view; it's best to build a squad which is designed around winning games year in and year out. But I think England have so often been in the trap of sticking with make-shift solutions for far longer than any other international team.

Imo we can put him in if he's the best 7 in England when he comes back and wait for someone to take the shirt from him . I know McCaw was in a completely different league to most but almost in the way NZ managed that situation . I'm sure if someone came along that was consistently outperforming Ritchie that the NZRU would have moved him along . It just happens that that person never came along and Ritchie made the decision himself

There's no saying Underhill will be ready by the next World Cup and up till now are completely in the dark wether Fraser/Kvesic can make the step up

How about a back row of
6. Ewers 7. Armitage 8. Billy V = POWER !!! Haha

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Armitage hasn't really done that much in the last 2 seasons.

Just a shame Kvesic is not rated.

 

[Maverick1987]

Armitage hasn't really done that much in the last 2 seasons.

Just a shame Kvesic is not rated.

He was pretty handy last year . This year he has looked a little out of sorts but then the whole Toulon team has really ...

 

[Peat]

Steflon doesn't have to be a placeholder. I'd bet a fiver now that there'll be at least one 34 year old back row at the next World Cup; could be him.

If he is going to be one though, then I don't see the problem, particularly in this case. After all, the guy Steflon would replace is even older. We lose nothing.

Ultimately, it's not about afford, it's about making the best of what you have. If Kvesic, Fraser et al genuinely aren't good enough, then they too are place holders; might as well pick the best one regardless of age. As long as the coach is ready to introduce the solution when he finds it, then all is good (and if he won't, or misses solutions, then you've got a bigger problem anyway).


In this particular instance though, I think England can afford it anyway. We have a very young squad that will grow together; only four positions in the team can be said to be filled by place holders based on age. As such, we should be able to build a structure that easily integrates late arrivals (and again, if we don't, we have bigger problems).

And if you look at it by place holders based on ability, then everyone's a place holder, and I think we could see some fairly sweeping changes once the Jones regime takes hold fully. One more change ain't a big deal if it does happen like that. Of course, we won't win the WC if it does go down that way, but that's ok, most of the team will last to 2023, we just have to pray that we finally have a long term coach who'll take us all the way in that course...


Final point - make-shift solutions come from make-shift coaches and make-shift talent production. Hopefully the latter two are fixed and we can move the hell on.

 

[McTallshort]

Wasps currently googling "dodgy accountancy firms in the East Midlands".

Coventry is in the west Midlands