S Armitage looking for England club and country

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I really don't understand why EJ hasn't looked at Fraser for the 7 shirt. I've had doubts about Kevesic but Fraser when not injured has always performed.

Fraser/ Harrison and Kevesic need to be looked at before we start looked at Steffan who's not a proven international by any means.

 

[welshglory]

Fraser doesn't really have any stand out qualities though does he? Jones has said himself that he isn't looking for solid performers going forward he's looking at international class or world class players.

 

[Maverick1987]

Fraser doesn't really have any stand out qualities though does he? Jones has said himself that he isn't looking for solid performers going forward he's looking at international class or world class players.

I see Fraser as similar to Robshaw when there was a clamour for him to be picked tbh

 

[TobesHodges]

No dbout, if Armitage performs well in the AP he can be world class and would be an asset at 7 for England. But he is 30 and you would wonder most about his conditioning come next World Cup which EJ will be building towards, will it be a waste drafting him into the team.
We do have a lack of poaching 7's in England, everyone seems to want A Liam Gill, Ardie Savea, Pocock kind of 7, Steffon may be that answer, it's just the age that concerns me.

I'll be watching the England U20's this yeah closely at the number 7's.

 

[welshglory]

I see Fraser as similar to Robshaw when there was a clamour for him to be picked tbh

Whilst i agree that they have a similar profile, i would say Robshaw is quite some step above. I see Fraser as a slightly defensively stronger Michael Lipman tier player.


If i remember correctly before his debut and call ups Robshaw had something like the highest tackle count for 2 years running? Plus he was renowned for his passing,distribution game stepping in at first receiver, lineout work, and being a solid captain. Quite a few more plus points than Fraser in my opinion.

Also as you mentioned he's similar to Robshaw, would you really want such similar players in the squad?


I remember intheloose.com clamouring on about him being selected as well for the last 4 years, but i've never seen much in him myself to be honest.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Fraser similar to Robshaw?
I guess I can see it in that they're the best in their position but not being selected, but they're not similar players.
Seeing as Robshaw got his break at 7 maybe this means Fraser will get his at scrumhalf or something

 

[welshglory]

Fraser is a club level openside at best, but that's just my opinion... i guess Eddie's as well.

 

[Maverick1987]

Fraser is a club level openside at best, but that's just my opinion... i guess Eddie's as well.

I like Fraser but I share this opinion . Kvesic looks far more accomplished in a much less dominant team . Would we even be taking about Fraser if he played for Gloucester and Kvesic played for Saracens ?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genuinely surprised about that, a fully fit Fraser (as rare as that is) is noticeably better than Kvesic.
Suppose it could be due to being part of a good pack, but he still looks better and that's all we've got to base it off.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Genuinely surprised about that, a fully fit Fraser (as rare as that is) is noticeably better than Kvesic.
Suppose it could be due to being part of a good pack, but he still looks better and that's all we've got to base it off.

Fraser is more prone to brain farts IMO.

And his injury record will also leave doubts on him, (Similar to Croft in the last few years).

 

[Peat]

I thought the Fraser/Robshaw comparison was saying that Fraser looks really, really good in the Premiership, but once you start looking for attributes that will be stand out at international level, you start going "Uhm...". At least, that's what it made me think of. Kvesic has looked the business at international level, albeit not in the hardest games.

Neither though have looked like the openside Jones wants. What he wants - at present at least - is a physical player who melts rucks and poses a real threat around the fringes of them. His dream openside will be probably be a player that offers that as well as link play and jackaling. I think that's going to make life hard for both Kvesic and Wallace and it's why everyone's getting so excited about Underhill, because he looks like he could become that sort of player.

It also suggests he could very well be interested in Steflon.

 

[Maverick1987]

Genuinely surprised about that, a fully fit Fraser (as rare as that is) is noticeably better than Kvesic.
Suppose it could be due to being part of a good pack, but he still looks better and that's all we've got to base it off.

I disagree . Kvesic has looked equally as good as Fraser . I can't remember when Kev last had a crap game . He should definitely be looking for a move next year . Exeter would be an ideal place imo

 

[brokenoses]

Salvi has a year left so Exe will have to have somebody ready in the wings. Kvesic or Underhill would be ideal (Kvesic is a Tiverton boy too) but there is no chance of Tubby Steff coming near. High quality or not, he's a bit too far up his own ringer to be considered (even if Chiefs could compete financially). Wasps seems a natural place for him to go given their lack of a 7, and the direction their going in terms of a star studded squad. Depending on what happens soon, Bath could take a couple of years before attracting more big signings and there isn't really anybody else that needs a player in his mould. I wouldn't want him in an England shirt partly because of his character and his past attitude but also because of his age. It seems a bit futile to invest the caps and game time into someone that probably won't be upto scratch in 4 years when it counts, and its not like we haven't got youngsters to blood.

 

[Salad dodger]

Forward options

What about quins pair, Wallace and Clifford??? Robshaw plays 6 at club level full time.

I'd have armitage and Harrison at saints looks good but could Thacker be converted in time also???

Currently I'd go as the mid term options 4-8: launchbury kruis itoje armitage vunipola, with ewers and Hughes coming off the bench on 55 mins and itoje shifting into lock.

To me that looks a strong option?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/36399043

That puts another end to the Armitage discussion then.