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[RWC2023 QF4] France vs South Africa (15/10/2023)

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All these conspiracy theories around referees and pool draws is laughable.
Very imaginative, very entertaining and very misguided.

Why is it so difficult to accept a result. Referees and officials are not infallible. We've all been on the side of teams that have both lost and won crucial games due to officiating error.

To suggest that there is some dark back room wheeling and dealing going on to produce a particular outcome or result is ludicrous. The professional game has far too many uncontrollable moving parts and is far too unpredictable to be micro-managed to that extent.

Occam's razor- the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

Officials get it wrong and so do you and I. Time to put on your big boy pants and move on.
 
saulan said:
Taking a slightly drunk step back - Rassie took notes against Ireland. O'Keeffe has been consistent this World Cup, in that he has allowed a free flowing game at the breakdown. I thought it was our downfall against Ireland, but Rassie and the team picked up on the fact that he does not referee that part of the game strictly. (Although to be fair how the breakdown is reffed at the moment is a free for all, depending on the referee). I think SA did better at adapting to the interpretations following their last loss. Kitshoff did get pinged a fair amount, but it seems Etzebeth got away with a few things I didn't notice (based on commentary here).

Regardless of all of the intricacies. I stand by my previous statement. Well played France, massive game, we both deserved to go through and I'm very sorry that we were the ones to take you out. You have a fantastic team and your performances in the Six Nations and U20 tournaments put you in a great position for the next World Cup.

Im truly sorry for the pain.
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This seems like a really good take.
Watching live, with beer and bias, I felt that only one side was being reff.ed (not literally, obviously). Which is to take nothing away from South Africa - you guys played brilliantly.

Cheating is a fundamental part of rugby, and if South Africa knew O'Keefe's style better than France, and adapted their cheating better - then chapeau to South Africa.
"It's only illegal if the referee notices"

ETA: Oh, and conspiracy theories are just silly.
 
TRF_Ezequiel said:
They are.
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Now they are, after the semi final 'swap over'. I'm referring to the quarter draw that put both teams at risk of going home early. Hardly the stuff of conspiring to have them both in the final.
 
Ospervat said:
My understanding is that the defending runner cannot be in the field of play IE over the try line, before the kicker moves.
Kolbe has amazing acceleration and suspect he is probably at full speed within 10 -15 meters from a dead start.
"Assuming" Kolbe preempted Ramos's move towards the ball (Studied him in video replays) and Kolbe started running from eg 10 -15 meters before the try line he may well be up to full speed at the point at which Ramos moves.
Kolbe's 100m time is 10.7 - That means he can cover 20 meters in 2.3 seconds.
Ramos has a tendency to make a slow approach to the ball (drags his left foot) very controlled.
I would suggest that from the start of Ramos's movement to striking the ball could take as much as 2.2 seconds depending on the distance and angle of the kick.
So I guess - statistically it is possible with a bit of luck a player could intercept a ball in low flight.
Gary Player once said "The more I practice, the luckier I get".
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That would make Kolbe the only sprinter in the world to reach full speed immediately, defying all the laws of physics, and to make his best time in the middle of a rugby match, defying all the laws of physiology...
 
Wichita said:
That would make Kolbe the only sprinter in the world to reach full speed immediately, defying all the laws of physics, and to make his best time in the middle of a rugby match, defying all the laws of physiology...
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Yep I do tend to agree with your conclusion. I decided to put a stop watch on Ramos.
3.27 seconds from first movement to strike. Definitely achievable by a sprinter of Kolbe's ability to cover 20m in that time from a dead start.
 
I don't think O'Keefe had the best, but he was consistent to both sides in what he let go. Tbh he let a bit too much go, but it did give us non-stop attacking rugby.

On reflection, I think S.A noticed this more and realised they could get away with more which is why people are saying he was biased. He wasn't, but S.A took advantage of it more and played him better.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Does this mean England are gonna lift the trophy seeing as bok fans are already etching their names on it 🤔
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Huh? This is a massive banana skin for us. 2019 England ambushed ABs in that semi. Even IF we make it to the final, An ominous NZ likely awaits. Im am no more confident in winning the tournament than before this QF.
 
I think if O'Keefe was more pedantic with his whistle like a lot of posters are wanting after the fact it'd suit SA better than France. We thrive in a stop-start technical arm wrestle with the focus on set piece rather than open play. Can't have it both ways. I was very frustrated with the non-calls at the ruck myself from an SA POV. An absolute free for all in that department specifically. All I can say is I'm glad I'm not a ref. Can't win.
 
Reiser99 said:
I don't think O'Keefe had the best, but he was consistent to both sides in what he let go. Tbh he let a bit too much go, but it did give us non-stop attacking rugby.

On reflection, I think S.A noticed this more and realised they could get away with more which is why people are saying he was biased. He wasn't, but S.A took advantage of it more and played him better.
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NZ tactics.
 
Thought Ben O'Keeffe actually refereed very well last night. Maybe France are annoyed because he was strong, backed himself, and didn't get swayed by the French crowd like so many other officials do. France lost because of their own inaccuracies, particularly during Etzebeth's sin bin, and because their bench was almost ineffective in comparison to the Springboks. SA just handled it better in the second half, their big match mentality shone through.
 
Reiser99 said:
I don't think O'Keefe had the best, but he was consistent to both sides in what he let go. Tbh he let a bit too much go, but it did give us non-stop attacking rugby.

On reflection, I think S.A noticed this more and realised they could get away with more which is why people are saying he was biased. He wasn't, but S.A took advantage of it more and played him better.
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mmh again, I do not agree, he did not reffed the boks on rucks, too easy to say that he just let played. when you know how boks are strong on the ruck, already letting play like he did, with clear infrigments was already giving a wild card to the boks. and I think also that there was a number of off-side that have not been penalised. for me, the worse and the most contentious/suspicious has been the very little use of the video reffing. The Etzebeth interception is certainly the most contentious stuff of the match, this is a try ball for France (to 14-0) and there is a decision that is taken quickly by I do not know even who... "nothing to look here" whereas we should have seen this with on the big screen and from any angle possible to make sure that the decision was the right one. But no, not been done, for me clear evidence of strong bias from the ref team



Few of the contentious stuff, I do not think the number 1 (the elbow in dupont's face) is too contentious, even if dangerous, it is done quite a lot and never really sanctioned, the hand on the ground before grabing the ball could slip through any referee but it was the 80th I believe and quite seeable and it was the accumulation of what the referee let through all the match on rucks phases, making it very avantageous for SA, but all the rest is. Yohan Huget who is commenting on Kolbe interception is saying that he saw Kolbe as a teammate trying this a lot of time and never succeeded once to achieve such a fit...and there suddenly he can do it ? He is clearly in front of the kicker, he knows he does not risk anything by cheating at that moment, I guess the kick would be just retried....

Kobe interception and Etzebeth interception should have been double and triple checked, thats it. And we can wonder why it has not been so....

Feeling is that we got robbed yesterday, simple, not the first time obviously and it is not only happening to us on some other occasions. I thought for example that Barnes on Saturday evening was bias towards the ABs for the first 15 minutes and it has been suficient for them to beat Ireland at the end

Again, good luck to our saffies friend, it was a tight contest and they end up on the "lucky" end
 
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